Timing belt

[evtilsley]

Hi - do you guys stick with the 5 year belt replacement, as recommended by SKODA?

 

[StuartB]

Yes - better safe than sorry. I'd rather do this early than bear the consequences of belt failure!

[cheezemonkhai]

Personally I go with the first one almost certainly but after that it depends on the value of the car, the condition of the first belt and the mileage.

That 5 years doesn't appear in some other countries, so there's probably some room.

 

Obviously as said above though, it's a risk, but if the car is worth very little at belt change two and you're well under mileage, you have to decide how you personally feel and cost vs return etc.

 

 

[Stewart7]

I thought the reccommendation was to inspect after 5 years, not replace.  My 5 year old car has only done 9000 miles.  Should I change the belt now?

[cheezemonkhai]

Depends which country. I believe most say inspect and the U.K. says otherwise.

 

guess it’s down to the importer.

[foregonereality]

What's involved in an inspection? Does the mechanic simply check the belt for cracks or do they check tensioners and the like?

 

My belt is just about 5 years old with about 125,000km/70,000 miles. Given that my manual says that it should last until 210,000km without a time limit I'm wondering why Skoda added the time limit afterwards.

 

Clearly the belts were designed to last such an amount of mileage. That said, I've heard the water pumps go long before the 210k mark!

[PetrolDave]

18 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Depends which country. I believe most say inspect and the U.K. says otherwise.

I'm puzzled what the conditions are in the UK that (in the opinion of Skoda UK) reduce the life of the cambelt?

[cheezemonkhai]

38 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

I'm puzzled what the conditions are in the UK that (in the opinion of Skoda UK) reduce the life of the cambelt?

Rest assured, you’re not the only one! Maybe the belts degrade more rapidly in the vicinity of English, Welsh, Scottish or N Irish accents 😂

Edited 4 July, 2020 by cheezemonkhai

[robs12]

For Petrol 1.2/1.4 Tsi, the workshop manual clearly states inspect at 240K km and every 30K km after. No replacement times/years listed.

The waterpump is separate to the cambelt, at the other end of the engine, with a separate belt - same inspection interval.

 

For all diesels, belt should be changed at 210K km.

 

For larger petrols, the manual is not clear...but could be interpreted as change at 120K km.

 

Is there any documentation from Skoda that says otherwise?

What salespeople in Skoda dealerships 'recommend' is another issue...

Edited 4 July, 2020 by robs12

[Ootohere]

240,000 km / 150,000 miles might mean they would never be getting inspected then.  

Maybe just failing sometime after the car is over 10 years or 20 years even.

[gm73]

Mines was specified to 5 years or 140k miles, whichever came first. I called Skoda to get this confirmed as it was nowhere on the documents that came with the car. 
 

I had it changed at 133k as it began to make a   noise. 
 

My mechanic took £350 for a Gates kit and waterpump. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, robs12 said:

For Petrol 1.2/1.4 Tsi, the workshop manual clearly states inspect at 240K km and every 30K km after. No replacement times/years listed.

The waterpump is separate to the cambelt, at the other end of the engine, with a separate belt - same inspection interval.

 

For all diesels, belt should be changed at 210K km.

 

For larger petrols, the manual is not clear...but could be interpreted as change at 120K km.

 

Is there any documentation from Skoda that says otherwise?

What salespeople in Skoda dealerships 'recommend' is another issue...

 

Salespeople recommending a cambelt change?  I have to admit that's a new one on me.

 

What really bothers me is armchair experts come on here and set down the law for others, but never produce evidence.

 

You want documentation? Like most things, Skoda general info is lacking and the cambelt is no diffferent, but I think we can all agree that whatever VW, Audi and SEAT say will also apply to Skoda given it's the same mechanics, same engine, same parts, same oils etc. So let's see what they have to say about the cambelt  ( note: this only applies to UK, I'm not about to conduct a worldwide search ).

 

VW UK website says:

How often does it need to be changed?

4 - 5 years (4 years for cars registered before September 2009, 5 years thereafter). This may need to be changed sooner for high mileage drivers.

 

And Seat?

 

How often should a cambelt be changed?

The maximum recommended mileage interval for a cambelt change is stated in your vehicle handbook (varies depending on model, year and engine type.) We recommend your cambelt is changed every five years or recommended mileage, whichever occurs soonest.

 

What about Audi?

 

How Often Does It Need Changing?

 

When you use your car, your cambelt will stretch and eventually break if it is not changed. It is recommended that you change your cambelt every 40,000-60,000 miles. Alternatively, your handbook should tell you the suggested mileage from the manufacturer that you should change your cambelt. If you don’t know how to do this, you can take it to a garage or an Audi dealership, and they should be able to help you with this. Also, if you are unsure about whether or not it is time to replace your cambelt, take it to one of these places, and they will be able to tell you whether or not it is time for a change.

 

OK, lets forget about those rip off dealers selling a cambelt change, what does independant VW/Audi dealer say?

 

 When do I need my cambelt changed?

Volkswagen Automotive Group recommend that Audi, Volkswagen, SEAT and SKODA vehicles should typically have a cambelt change between every 4-5 years or at the appropriate mileage interval as indicated in the vehicle service schedule.

Contact our team here at Central Audi VW today to find out if your SKODA, SEAT, Audi or VW cambelt change is due.

 

Signs To Show You May Need a Cambelt Change:

Noises – Do you hear high pitched noise when you start your vehicle? If you hear a squelling or rattling noise from your engine you cambelt may need replacing

Starting Issues – If your cambelt has snapped the engine will not be in sync, the cam shaft doesnt rotate as the crankshaft turns so the engune will fail to start.

Visual Checks – When you lift the hood and check the cambelt certain features can be higlighted pointing toward the need for a camebelt change. If the cambelt is beginning to fray or crack and if the underside of the belt is starting to appear glazed or glossy these are signs of a worn cambelt thaat needs replacing.

Water pump

On many models, the water pump is run by the cambelt as it pumps and ciculates coolant around the engine to keep the engine running at the correct temperature. Therefore replacing the water pump at the same time as the cambelt reduces the risk of the pump failing. A defective water pump may not only leak coolant fluid it can fail or even seize which will result in the engine overheating and causing damage to engine components which can be costly.

 

 

[robs12]

The SKODA Mk3 maintenance manual is here and very clear:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh8n0y4sz6jsxcd/Maintenance.pdf?dl=0

 

See page 16/17 for 1.2/1,4 Tsi, and page 24/5 for diesel cambelt maintenance schedule.

 

Not judging whether it's right or wrong Scot5, but do you have any documentation from Skoda saying otherwise? It's been done to death several times already...

 

For the 1.2/14 TSI, the VW EA211 engine ' service training manual' is here:

 

https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-511-new-ea211-petrol-engine-family/

 

Page 13 actually says the camshaft toothed belt is 'maintenance free'.

 

 

Edited 4 July, 2020 by robs12

[J.R.]

Signs To Show You May Need a Cambelt Change:

If your cambelt has snapped the engine will not be in sync,

 

I would have written that as, if you are driving and feel a jerk, lose all power, hear a rattling noise and see pieces of valve & piston bouncing along the road behind you then you no longer need a cambelt change

[robs12]

LOL!!

 

I think there is a little confusion being generated with this line too:

 

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

Noises – Do you hear high pitched noise when you start your vehicle? If you hear a squelling or rattling noise from your engine you cambelt may need replacing

 

 

Slipping cambelt anyone...throw some talc on it and get another few years out of it...

😁😁

[J.R.]

I just tried to remove the cambelt cover to inspect mine, bit of a failure, far too many emissions pipes running over it preventing its withdrawal and TBH it feels like its catching on something, its all so tight that if it came off it wouldn't go back on so all I could see was the top (back) of the belt and the front side of the teeth, it all looked in good shape.

 

Its done 79K miles in 5 years, I wont be looking again for another couple of years, on my MK1 Octavia Tdi I finally chnaged the belt (belt alone nothing else) at 275K miles when I could see the belt degrading, it was visible from the outside of the belt.

 

Having inspected stripped/snapped belts in the past all those that failed on their own and not due to tensioner bearings etc would have been visibly degraded on inspection prior to the failure.

[foregonereality]

5 hours ago, J.R. said:

I just tried to remove the cambelt cover to inspect mine, bit of a failure, far too many emissions pipes running over it preventing its withdrawal and TBH it feels like its catching on something, its all so tight that if it came off it wouldn't go back on so all I could see was the top (back) of the belt and the front side of the teeth, it all looked in good shape.

 

Its done 79K miles in 5 years, I wont be looking again for another couple of years, on my MK1 Octavia Tdi I finally chnaged the belt (belt alone nothing else) at 275K miles when I could see the belt degrading, it was visible from the outside of the belt.

 

Having inspected stripped/snapped belts in the past all those that failed on their own and not due to tensioner bearings etc would have been visibly degraded on inspection prior to the failure.

 

Wait - Is that the original timing belt that came with your MK1 Octy? If so then maximum respect to the manufacturer!

[J.R.]

Yes it was but it was 225k miles.

[seriesdriver]

Hi have two changes on my 10 year old mkii but it is a pd and I believe this system is harder on the belt. After the 1st change i asked to retain the belt and on a cursory inspection it looked fine but when you really looked there was signs of cracks starting on a number of the teeth. I also believe that tensioner failure is the cause of a lot of "cam belt" failure. At the end of the day we all have different tolerance of risk if I still have this car in 5 years time I may well take the risk and not get the belt done as the car will have minimum value anyway.   

[Guest]

19 hours ago, robs12 said:

The SKODA Mk3 maintenance manual is here and very clear:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh8n0y4sz6jsxcd/Maintenance.pdf?dl=0

 

See page 16/17 for 1.2/1,4 Tsi, and page 24/5 for diesel cambelt maintenance schedule.

 

Not judging whether it's right or wrong Scot5, but do you have any documentation from Skoda saying otherwise? It's been done to death several times already...

 

For the 1.2/14 TSI, the VW EA211 engine ' service training manual' is here:

 

https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-511-new-ea211-petrol-engine-family/

 

Page 13 actually says the camshaft toothed belt is 'maintenance free'.

 

 

 

This is typical of the added confusion thrown up by armchair experts.

 

How on earth is that clear?   Mr Joe Bloggs average looks at what Skoda, VW, SEAT or whatever the manufacturers say,  and to do this they look at their website, or documentation that's posted out to them, or their owners manual or whatever means that manufacturer uses to communicate,  WHAT THEY DON'T DO IS GO TO FRIGG'N drop box !!!!!!   I mean seriously.    I've already given you examples of what the garages and manufacturers say - at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

 

Basically you are saying that Skoda, VW, SEAT and Audi as well as independants are all wrong. Not good advice.

 

I'll say it again,  the cambelt fails and causes much damage after 6yr and 30,000 miles. The owner asks Skoda UK for a contribution toward the repair as the car has covered only 30,000 miles.  Skoda then turn round and say, well our franchised dealer advised you to have the belt replaced at 5yr, why didn't you do it?   What's your response going to  be?  "Your franchised dealers are just a bunch of thieving bas* and don't know what their doing, same goes for the specialist VAG indis.  So I decided to follow the advice rob12 said looks at a maintenance manual downloaded from dropbox."

 

Your right Rob, it has been done to death several times already - that's because armchair experts are so pig bloody minded that they're going against what the manufacturer is saying.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter if Skoda Uk say 100,000 miles or 5yr, or every 20,000 miles and 2yr,  you have to go with what the manufacturer says.  If Skoda Australia say it's every 50 years or billion miles, whichever comes first then that's great...  for Australians, not for a car supplied by Skoda UK.

 

Why has it been done to death?  Because people see what they want to see.

 

Bt the way:

1:  that manual is 7 years of-of-date. And I'll say it again, are you telling everyone Skoda UK, VW, AUDI and SEAT are wrong?  

 

2:  What exactly do you think maintenance free means? Perhaps that's the problem with some people, they don;t understand.  maintenance free doesn't mean it will last forever, it means you don't have to do anything to maintain it. Like any product, it will have a limited lifespan.  And even if it did last forever, what about the tensioners and pulleys?  A cambelt change doesn't just involve replacing the belt.

 

You're reading that manual and you're seeing what you want to see. Read what it actually says.

 

There are many examples in this forum alone of engine problems caused by snapped cambelts, yet according to some folk, they're suggesting it's an impossibility because it's maintenece free.    This is very dangerous advice to be giving to others.

 

Edit:  I'm just thinking whilst drinking my cuppa - the China mug that I'm drinking from is also maintenance free but it won't last forever.

   

 

Edited 5 July, 2020 by Guest

[J.R.]

And....... BREATHE!............................................................................😀

[robs12]

@Scot5,

 

Calm down mate, I'm just linking to the official Skoda maintenance manual - from the manufacturer.

 

There is a screenshot of the 2017 version here about 2/3 of the way down, which says the same (though it's just a screengrab, I can't vouch for whether it's genuine or not....I guess someone could have just fabricated it all😉)

 

As I said above, I'm not judging whether right or wrong, just linking to a copy of the Skoda maintenance manual.

 

Rather than writing a diatribe that may or may not be copied from various unknown sources (certainly some of what you posted appears a bit 'iffy'  😉), are you able to link to some Skoda documentation or dealer website or anything at all that says something different to their maintenance manual?

I am interested particularly and specifically about the EA211 engine, requirements for which are clearly different to diesels and larger petrols.

 

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

I think scot owes you an apology. 

[robs12]

Nah, it's just a difference of opinion.

I tend to believe the manufacturer's documentation rather than what I read on an internet forum (even though VW do have a bit of a reputation for being economical with the truth 😉 ).

 

Incidentally, here on the VW website is the VW news release from 2012 about the EA211 TSI engine :

 

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/the-new-golf-das-auto-international-driving-presentation-2797/the-new-golf-powertrain-structure-engines-and-gearboxes-2835

 

About half way down it says "the camshafts are not driven by chain here, rather by a single-stage, low-friction toothed belt design with a 20 mm wide belt and load-reducing profiled belt wheels. Thanks to its high-end material specification, this toothed belt's service life reliably spans the entire life of the vehicle."

 

I guess that's what is meant by 'maintenance free' in the VW service training literature.

[evtilsley]

Sorry I should have stated atop... Mine's a 2.0l diesel vRS. Think is around 40K miles. Mileage only gently creeps up even pre lock-down