Kamiq automatic gearbox problems at Hendy Skoda Bournemouth

[Beaves85]

Hello, I'm wondering if anyone has experienced a similar fault with their Kamiq. 

 

My Grandad purchased the car new from Hendy Skoda Bournemouth in May and it's been problematic from day one. On collection the vehicle had a deep scratch on the rear bumper but the main issue has been with the automatic gearbox. 

 

It is the 1.0tsi SEL and after a few days my grandad had fault codes on the media system saying there was a vehicle report, and the vehicle needed to be put in P and please report to the workshop. It would not let him lock the car. 

 

The vehicle was reviewed when they looked at the scratch and confirmed the gear selector was faulty so this was replaced. After a week or so my grandad had the same error code when he tried to park the vehicle, "vehicle not in P, please visit workshop." 

 

My Grandad then asked to reject the vehicle as it was faulty and their repair clearly had not worked. Fast forward a few weeks and many painful emails to Skoda Bournemouth, they have undertaken diagnostics and said that there is nothing wrong with the vehicle. They attribute the issue to "driver error". 

 

The sales manager confirmed a recent technical services bulletin (TSB) was released that confirmed the vehicle needed to be shut down in a specific way. In their words:

 

This fault code occurs when the driver puts the gearstick into neutral before switching the ignition off. In doing this the gearbox control module goes into sleep mode and then wont recognise the lever being moved into park.  This then stops the car from locking.

 

Skoda have a technical service bulletin relating to this issue which states the correct process according to the handbook. This is as follows;

 

• Keep brake pedal depressed
• Secure vehicle with parking brake
• Press button in the selector lever and set it to P position
• Turn off engine

 

I know the above isn't hard, but my grandad is 80 years old and if he pulls up at some lights, or stops at the side of the road and wants to put the vehicle into neutral, he should be able to without causing some gearbox fault when he comes to parking the vehicle.

 

This essentially renders the Neutral position unuseable! 

 

I believe the gearbox/TCU is faulty as i've driven many autos where you can put the selector in neutral when ever you see fit and there's no subsequent issues. 

 

Skoda Bournemouth have declined to accept his rejection saying there's nothing wrong with it and it's his driver error. The service from hendy skoda has been abysmal  throughout and we're now left with what we feel is a faulty vehicle, but Skoda believe is perfectly fine. 

 

For a TSB to have been released i wondered if anyone else has heard of or experienced this issue as we're now looking to take matters further to have the rejection accepted as my Grandad doesn't want the car.  

 

Also i appreciate this is a skoda forum but based on my experience of speaking to VWFS, Skoda UK and Hendy Skoda, I would discourage anyone from using their services as no one takes ownership and we have been passed around so many different departments it is beyond a joke. No one seems to know how to handle a vehicle rejection and not once has anyone apologised to my Grandad or offered him a courtesy car while this was being investigated! 

 

Any help or experience anyone has is greatly appreciated.  

 

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

A fault Skoda need to get sorted.

A DSG should be able to be stopped in N without a driver having to use P.

For servicing and maintenance for one reason.

 

The car can be started in P or N.   Started in N as long as the temp is not lower than minus 10*oC.   Or should be able to be.

 

Best get the Owners Manual out and read it as Skoda had it written and printed as to P & N and stopping and turning off the engine.

It will be interesting to know if they have revised the procedures from past Owners Manuals.

Edited 21 July, 2020 by Roottoot

[zoharin]

AFIK DSG gearbox requires the car to be in P before leaving the car. I think this is the reason of the error codes.

 

[skomaz]

As far as i can see it looks like he is turning off wrong...   my parents have had autos for years and they always need to be in P before turning the ignition off but can be dropped into N at any other time without issue.  Its a safety feature.

 

If hes leaving iin N when turning it off then thats clearly the issue.  If, however it is failing any other time with the engine running and in N, for example at a set of lights when the ignition remains on but the stop start kicks in, then that is an issue.  That doesnt seem to be the case from what you are suggesting though.

Edited 22 July, 2020 by skomaz

[Ootohere]

It is not an Automatic though, they are 2 pedal and can be driven on an 'Automatic only licence, but really they are Automated Manuals or some say 'Roboticized manuals'.

As a ASG is an Automated Manual with a single clutch.

 

I have had various VW Group cars with DSG's petrols and diesels with manual parking brakes and e-brakes and auto hold and often stop and turn them off in N.

Cant think i have done it with 1.0TSI 7 speed dsg's in the past couple of years though, but if i had tried to and not been able to i am pretty sure i would of been checking why.

 

If i have a car on a ramp i want to be able to roll it back or forward and can want to spin the drive wheel by hand without them being locked by the DSG's pawl.

If i did want the wheels locked i would engage P and the parking brake so the fronts and rears were not able to turn.

Edited 22 July, 2020 by Roottoot

[Beaves85]

Sorry I probably didnt make myself clear, my Grandad is putting the vehicle into P when shutting the car down. He is not trying to shut it down in Neutral.

 

The problem is, if he has put the vehicle into N at any point during his drive, for example at traffic lights or when moving between gears, the gearbox module goes to "sleep", so when he comes to park, he puts it into P before switching off the engine but the car doesn't recognise that the gear selector is in P and a fault code appears on the dash, advising to put the car into p, and please visit workshop. 

 

This then means he can't lock the car as the gear selector doesn't think the vehicle is in P, when in fact it is. 

 

Skoda have said this is driver error, i contest this, as the gearbox is not fit for purpose. It renders the Neutral position obsolete and putting a vehicle into Neutral shouldnt cause the gearbox to malfunction like this. 

 

My Grandad then has to restart the vehicle and take it on a short drive, to "reset" the gearbox, ensuring he doesn't use N at any time. When he comes to park the gear selector behaves as normal and when he puts it into P, he can turn off the car and lock it. 

 

To reiterate, If N is used at any point it causes the above fault. This is why i believe there is a fault with the TCU as an automatic gearbox shouldn't go to sleep if the Neutral position is used. 

 

Skoda have released a TSB regarding this so there must have been some wider issues with other cars?

[Ootohere]

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/426096-error-service-leave-vehicle-only-when-selector-in-postition-p

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452461-error-leave-vehicle-only-when-selector-in-position-p

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/466368-error-service-leave-vehicle-only-when-in-position-p

^^^ This is a Mk3 Fabia.

 

[skomaz]

1 hour ago, Beaves85 said:

Sorry I probably didnt make myself clear, my Grandad is putting the vehicle into P when shutting the car down. He is not trying to shut it down in Neutral.

 

The problem is, if he has put the vehicle into N at any point during his drive, for example at traffic lights or when moving between gears, the gearbox module goes to "sleep", so when he comes to park, he puts it into P before switching off the engine but the car doesn't recognise that the gear selector is in P and a fault code appears on the dash, advising to put the car into p, and please visit workshop. 

 

This then means he can't lock the car as the gear selector doesn't think the vehicle is in P, when in fact it is. 

 

Skoda have said this is driver error, i contest this, as the gearbox is not fit for purpose. It renders the Neutral position obsolete and putting a vehicle into Neutral shouldnt cause the gearbox to malfunction like this. 

 

My Grandad then has to restart the vehicle and take it on a short drive, to "reset" the gearbox, ensuring he doesn't use N at any time. When he comes to park the gear selector behaves as normal and when he puts it into P, he can turn off the car and lock it. 

 

To reiterate, If N is used at any point it causes the above fault. This is why i believe there is a fault with the TCU as an automatic gearbox shouldn't go to sleep if the Neutral position is used. 

 

Skoda have released a TSB regarding this so there must have been some wider issues with other cars?

 

Thanks for the clarity.  That does sound like a fault.  Has the dealer replicated this and does it say anywhere in the manual to not use N?

[Kiero1]

I’ve had the DSG gearbox on various Skodas Volkswagens and Audis and never had an issue as described

 

However if there really is an issue that continues I would contact Skoda UK rather than go to the dealership but talk to the dealership first of all and ensure that they know you’re about to contact Skoda UK about the complaint they might reconsider your request for a rejection

[Beaves85]

Thank you for the links, makes interesting reading. 

 

I have spoken with Skoda UK and unfortunately they've advised that even though it is a Skoda, they can't assist as it was purchased from a franchise dealer - Hendy Skoda. 

 

Hendy SKoda have not been able to replicate the fault or get the warning signs to appear on the dash etc. They did say they looked at the fault memory and the only fault code showing in there related to the parked position switch. However they said this fault code occurs when the driver puts the gearstick into neutral before switching the ignition off.

 

I have advised them that my Grandad is not trying to switch the vehicle off in Neutral. He might be 80 but he still has common sense and has been a HGV driver for many years. He moves the selector from D straight into P, then gets a warning that the selector is not in P and to visit the workshop and it also prevents the car from locking. However even if he were putting the vehicle into Neutral, it shouldn't cause these issues with the gearbox. I've had many BMW automatics that you can move the gear selector between all manor of different positions with no adverse effects.

 

I managed to speak to the Hendy Brand manager and advised i have begun a case with the Motor Ombudsmen and i will be getting an independant vehicle engineer to test the vehicle and gearbox. He said they will do another round of testing to ensure they have tried all possibilities to replicate this fault which i said should have been done already. I have photos of the faults on the dash which i have also supplied them. 

 

We shall wait to see what they advise.

[Ootohere]

Try another Franchised Skoda Dealership.   Also another Skoda UK Customer Services communications manager.

 

Reason being Skoda UK are the Importer, the car is under warranty with Skoda, and faulty so not fit for purpose.

 

If Skoda UK  do not want to arrange a competent Mechanical Engineer / Master Technician to diagnose the fault that another Dealership might just have such a person.

You are not tied to using HENDY SKODA BOURNEMOUTH.

 

The reason given for the fault is just the usual one, 'Driver error'. 

The car should be able to be in 'N' at any time the car is stopped and not act up when the driver eventually decides to stop the car having parked it.

[Ootohere]

PS

At Skoda / VW UK there are Call Handlers, Communications Managers a Resolution Manager, and all have zero technical knowledge of vehicles and especially Skoda /VW Group Vehicles.

That is why they got the job.

Among the Managers it is as though their computer and brain are cleared daily as 'they have never heard of similar issues' even ones that are common and have gone on for years.

 

So the car has a warranty and if the Dealership that supplied it and the company that imported it do not want to act like part of the biggest manufacturer of cars in the world that dropped 'Das Auto' and went for 'Honesty and building the trust of customers',  you need to go to the CAB to get advice and from there start to take legal action.

If a member of the RAC they help, as it is there is Skoda Assist so the owner can call Skoda Assist telling them that they do not feel safe driving the car and a AA responder might well check for fault codes and can arrange the car to be taken to a Franchised Dealer / Authorised repairer and the provision of a Courtesy /Hire car.

 

Maybe a like for like 1.0TSI DSG that does not have issues if in N before being put into P.

[nbramwel]

My previous car was a Fabia 1.2 TSI DSG so different engine but same gearbox.  I never had a problem putting the gear selector into neutral at any time and never had any such warnings on the MFD.  Your grandad should press ahead with his rejection action.  To be honest, I wouldn't have accepted the car in the first place if it was scratched.

 

There is far too much 'fobbing off' by car dealers in general and this seems to be becoming more common with Skoda dealers.  But at the end of the day, customers will vote with their feet and buy elsewhere if they can find a dealer with a good reputation (there are still some around). 

[Guest]

On 22/07/2020 at 11:06, Beaves85 said:

The problem is, if he has put the vehicle into N at any point during his drive, for example at traffic lights or when moving between gears, the gearbox module goes to "sleep", so when he comes to park, he puts it into P before switching off the engine but the car doesn't recognise that the gear selector is in P and a fault code appears on the dash, advising to put the car into p, and please visit workshop.

 

That's exactly how we drive our car - temporarily flick it in to neutral if it looks like I'm only going to be stopped 30sec at a traffic light.  And we have had no issues whatsoever. Our car is a Karoq with a 1.5 engine but I believe both our and your Grandad's cars have the same gearbox. ( it's called a DQ200 ).

 

Regarding Skoda's response, I didn't even know you could switch off the engine with the gearbox in neutral and I'm not quite sure why anyone would. We put the car in P so the brake is on then switch off.

Edited 27 July, 2020 by Guest

[Ootohere]

People park cars without putting in P and having the DSG locked by the Pawl.

They might leave a car in a garage or outside even without the parking brake on and the wheels chocked.

This is possible and has been for a very long time with DSG's.

If it is not something someone wants to do that does not mean that others do not want to.

 

PS

Putting in 'P' does not put on a manual hand brake or any brakes front or rear.

'E-Brakes' are a different matter.   

But in 'P' locks the gearbox / drive wheels & does not apply the brakes.

Edited 27 July, 2020 by Roottoot

[Guest]

On 27/07/2020 at 12:04, Roottoot said:

People park cars without putting in P and having the DSG locked by the Pawl.

They might leave a car in a garage or outside even without the parking brake on and the wheels chocked.

This is possible and has been for a very long time with DSG's.

If it is not something someone wants to do that does not mean that others do not want to.

 

PS

Putting in 'P' does not put on a manual hand brake or any brakes front or rear.

'E-Brakes' are a different matter.   

But in 'P' locks the gearbox / drive wheels & does not apply the brakes.

 

 If it is not something someone wants to do that does not mean that others do not want to. What's that supposed to mean? Who said otherwise?

 

It's a simple question - why would anyone switch a DSG car off in neutral?  They might leave a car in a garage or outside even without the parking brake on and the wheels chocked. Yeh, but WHY would they want to do that? What advantage does that bring? Why wouldn't you want to lock the gearbox when the engine is off? If you leave the gearbox unlocked then presumably you run the risk of damaging it.

 

If I were the OP and a mechanic suggested to me that I'd switched the car off a DSG box in neutral, my immediate question would be what possible reason is there for me to switch the car off in neutral?  The garage's answer has all the hallmarks of scraping the bottom of the barrel for some excuse to place the onus on the owner rather than the product.

 

 

[Ootohere]

@Scot5  

Leaving a DSG in 'N' does not damage a DSG, and there is absolutely no reason that it could damage a DSG or to presume it could.

 

Sitting in traffic for a bit in 'N' without Stop / Start activated but a parking brake on and no foot brake / rear brake lights on is a rather common thing to do rather than selecting 'P'.  Stopping and switching off if waiting say for a road to be cleared in 'N' with a parking brake applied and the car not in P is something plenty do when driving.

 

I will park on the flat and stop an automatic or DSG in N & apply a parking brake until i let it off. maybe on a ramp, maybe on the ground,

and push it forward or back and wash the wheels and maybe chock them and lift the car on jacks spin the wheels as i change them on stands, do the brakes etc and have done for 4 decades of working on autos.

I have parked up vehicles with DSG's in winter without being in P and without the parking brake applied and the wheels chocked.

 

So if nobody else does then that is there business but stopping in 'N' and starting again in 'N' has never been an issue mentioned anyplace before the post that i have ever seen.

PITA if things change so you can not go into 'N' while stopped, or turn the engine off when in 'N'  and especially where cars still have manual parking brakes.

You should not have to go through reverse to get to N or to D if you do not want to. 

 

In other models with DSG's above -10*oC you can start in 'N' because you can stop and switch off in 'N'.

I have not looked in a Kamiq Owners manual.

Edited 3 August, 2020 by Roottoot

[Beaves85]

Thanks for the comments. 

 

No positive news im afraid. Hendy Skoda are resolute that this is driver error and is caused by my Grandad turning off the vehicle in Neutral and that this then causes the gearbox to go to sleep and not recognise what position it is in. 

 

I have said my Grandad does not turn the vehicle off in N, he comes to a stop and puts the selector into P. it is then this error flashes up to visit the workshop. 

 

I asked what error codes were on the OBD as there must have been some when I was able to take photos of these errors. Skoda confirmed the code B116229  has appeared both times they inspected the vehicle but they attribute this code to turning the vehicle off in N. 

 

Looking on google this fault code is common across the VAG range and seems synonymous with a faulty micro switch in the gear selector. I spoke to a neighbour who is a technician at VW and he confirmed the same, that code relates to an issue with an implausible signal from the micro switch in the selector lever and VW had some issues with this previously where the agreed fix was to replace the selector unit. Newer models have been udated but he did say Skoda are generally a bit behind with parts and technology so they might be using older gearboxes that had this faulty part. 

 

I also approached a local VAG specialist who said the OBD has been wiped so no codes exist however had they seen B116229, they too would have investigated a faulty micro switch in the gear selector. 

 

Despite this evidence, Hendy Skoda still believe it is human error and is caused by putting the vehicle in Neutral when switching off and therefore will not take the vehicle back. So today I've sent all my evidence to The Motor Ombudsmen (TMO) to review.

 

I'm just hoping TMO agree with my evidence that B116229 is indeed proof of a fault with the vehicle. Fingers crossed.      

[skoda1982]

1 hour ago, Beaves85 said:

Thanks for the comments. 

 

No positive news im afraid. Hendy Skoda are resolute that this is driver error and is caused by my Grandad turning off the vehicle in Neutral and that this then causes the gearbox to go to sleep and not recognise what position it is in. 

 

I have said my Grandad does not turn the vehicle off in N, he comes to a stop and puts the selector into P. it is then this error flashes up to visit the workshop. 

 

I asked what error codes were on the OBD as there must have been some when I was able to take photos of these errors. Skoda confirmed the code B116229  has appeared both times they inspected the vehicle but they attribute this code to turning the vehicle off in N. 

 

Looking on google this fault code is common across the VAG range and seems synonymous with a faulty micro switch in the gear selector. I spoke to a neighbour who is a technician at VW and he confirmed the same, that code relates to an issue with an implausible signal from the micro switch in the selector lever and VW had some issues with this previously where the agreed fix was to replace the selector unit. Newer models have been udated but he did say Skoda are generally a bit behind with parts and technology so they might be using older gearboxes that had this faulty part. 

 

I also approached a local VAG specialist who said the OBD has been wiped so no codes exist however had they seen B116229, they too would have investigated a faulty micro switch in the gear selector. 

 

Despite this evidence, Hendy Skoda still believe it is human error and is caused by putting the vehicle in Neutral when switching off and therefore will not take the vehicle back. So today I've sent all my evidence to The Motor Ombudsmen (TMO) to review.

 

I'm just hoping TMO agree with my evidence that B116229 is indeed proof of a fault with the vehicle. Fingers crossed.      

Why are skoda behind with parts and technology they dont use older gearboxes. skoda make the gearboxes for all the VAG group so they dont put older parts in there gearboxes they are all the same. They make thousands a day

[Beaves85]

7 minutes ago, skoda1982 said:

Why are skoda behind with parts and technology they dont use older gearboxes. skoda make the gearboxes for all the VAG group so they dont put older parts in there gearboxes they are all the same. They make thousands a day

 

No idea, I'm just quoting what the VW technician told me. This is of course just his opinion, I'm not sure on his rationale. 

[skomaz]

Can't you just take it to a different dealer to be sorted?

[Beaves85]

11 hours ago, skomaz said:

Can't you just take it to a different dealer to be sorted?

 

Hi, We don't want the car sorted, we want to return it. The car was bought brand new, immediately it had problems and so at 2 weeks old a new gear selector was apparently fitted. However the errors continued after this which is where we have asked to formally reject the car and return it, as entitled under the consumer rights act. 

 

However Hendy have rejected our rejection saying there's nothing wrong with the car and no reason for us to reject it because the issue is one caused by driver error. Hence the problem we're in now.  We believe the fault code B116229 is an actual fault, Hendy think it's to do with the driver turning the car off in Neutral. 

 

If you google the code B116229 it's synonymous with a failing microswitch and the repair is a new gear selector. Hendy believe otherwise? 

[Ootohere]

That is just HENDY employees.

Skoda UK the importer and Warranty Provider could have a 'Competent Technician',  or a VW Technical Department Motor Engineer inspect the vehicle and have any faults resolved.

 

A Communications Manager or a Resolution Manager & Skoda / VW UK can arrange that.

There is the requirement to allow 'Competent and Qualified Dealership employees with all the gear' to sort matters.

 

HENDY and whoever at Skoda UK are dealing with things are just being hopeless in their duty to have the vehicle of merchantable quality and using 

'Operator failings' to try to cover the fault.

[Yetiherts]

Hi

I have a 1.0 DSG SEL Scala (same engine and gearbox) , it is now 8 months old with 6000 miles on the clock glad to say I have never had this problem.

 

[Ootohere]

@Beaves85

Any update on this?