Cracked Haldex Unit

[John@C]

Sorry there earlier post I’m  new to this site made a mistake with the earlier post and this is my horror Story.

 

As a 58 year old man, I have been the owner of three Skoda vehicles, a Fabia, a Roomster, and my present one being a 2014 Yeti Outdoor SE 2.0. 

 

All my services have been carried out by a Skoda UK franchised main dealer, in accordance with Skoda's requirements, for the confidence of their expertise and experienced service technicians and often pay a premium for their superior service. 

 

Having purchased my Yeti 4x4 from new, we still are committed to taking our vehicles to approved Skoda dealerships for servicing and parts such as coolants, engine oil and merchandising. 

 

Having had a full service a week before, and having had no problems until recently;

 

. March 2020, minor service and cam belt replacement

. July 2020, four tyres replacement with all season grade

. September, full service with Haldex oil change

 

We were driving along a local lane, with restricted 20 mph limit, and heading towards our favourite garden centre on that weekend. Suddenly we heard a whining grinding sound and a loud judder and the car stopped immediately. Luckily the driver of the vehicle behind was able to steer around car. The recovery agent diagnosed a cracked Haldex unit with evidence of an oil leak on the road. He arranged for us to be towed home as there was no approved service centre open. We had a traumatic experience awaiting to arrange privately the recovery company to tow the car to the service centre from my home on the following Monday.

 

Come the awakening phone call from the diagnostic inspection, I was told it’s a major repair costing around 4.5 K plus the latter costs. With the panic of my dilemma I spoke to the Skoda UK customer service team  and the dealership customer care. Both parties have not expressed customer value and loyalty in helping with my love of the Skoda brand.

 

 

 

[Urrell]

4 minutes ago, John@C said:

The recovery agent diagnosed a cracked Haldex unit with evidence of an oil leak on the road. He arranged for us to be towed home as there was no approved service centre open.

And then proceeded to tow it!!!

[John@C]

It was tow truck and winched on to the truck

[Ootohere]

@John@C  Was it just the Haldex serviced,

and is the Diff still filled with the original oil so easy to see never touched from the factory?

 

Possibility of an issue with the servicing of the Haldex then.

Was it a technician that knew what they were doing? 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/437767-major-failure-soon-after-haldex-and-oil-changes

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/485299-oil-leak-transfer-gearbox-casing-joint

 

 

Edited 2 October, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[John@C]

Dear e-Roottoot,

 

Not entirely, he called me to to add this as additional reccomendation...it's a low mileage car for it's age 19,127 .

Well you might be surprised of the next saga...The service coordinator called after he had given me the quotation of 4.5 K To say we can't perform this repair now, please remove your vehicle asap...Their reason was the service department is closing down with  immediate affect.

[Ootohere]

@John@C    Best thing then.  They should not touch it until you get an Independent Expert to examine your car.  

Maybe via your insurance as you might be claiming off their insurers.

[John@C]

Unfortunately my insurers have verbally expressed mechanical is not covered.

 

The closing down garage are willing to tow from them  to their main branch in Guildford...!!!

 

Do you think this is a good idea ?

 

 

[Ootohere]

Personally i would not have them touch it or move it.

Commission an Independent Engineer to inspect it.

Get a solicitors advice on Monday.

?

Are you a RAC or AA Member?

 

[John@C]

Thank you for this advice ...We are RAC member via insurer.

 

That's my after thoughts, perhaps address this with a nice email to their CEO and then take the actions

 

I do have legal cover but not an independant engineer to hand

[J.R.]

I wonder if its a cracked Haldex unit or really shrapnel from a grenaded differential making a bid for freedom through the diff casing?

 

There really isnt anything to break on a haldex coupling, its just a shaft with a multi-plate clutch that spends most of its time freewheeling.

 

Sounds like someone else not knowing one hole from another, I would get an independant engineer to look carefully at the differential and Haldex drain & fill plugs for evidence of what has been drained & from where, hopefully he will find that the Haldex fluid is still dirty and perhaps overfilled by topping up with new fluid and what remains in the diff casing is a tiny bit of blackened hypoid oil and that the diff drain plug shows clean hypoid oil stains from where they mistakenly drained it.

 

Was there much oil that leaked onto the ground? Whether it was the Haldex casing which I doubt or the diff casing which I believe there will have been a pretty big puddle growing quickly but it should have looked clean, I reckon it was a small amount of blackened oil.

 

As long as the dealer themselves are not closing down then they will remain responsable for any negligence by their service division.

 

good luck!

Edited 2 October, 2020 by J.R.

[John@C]

Dear JR,

 

I think you are quite on the button...For a mere individual taking on a medium enterprise is going to be tough..I'm going to take this to their CEO for some goodwill and not necessary addmission.

No the dealer are not closing down, just the service department.

 

Regards

 

[aka_pseudonym]

15 minutes ago, John@C said:

Thank you for this advice ...We are RAC member via insurer.

 

That's my after thoughts, perhaps address this with a nice email to their CEO and then take the actions

 

I do have legal cover but not an independant engineer to hand

 

I had totally different issues (engine) but I did get in touch with the RAC Legal Services and they were brilliant I thought.  You don't have to be a "direct" member to use them.  Number one on the list is to do everything you possibly can via email or letter so you have a paper trail.  I'd suggest going back to the service coordinator and requesting an email covering everything he's/she's verbally told you.  But do ring the RAC a.s.a.p - they'll give you a rundown of all the consumer laws a garage has to abide by, there are a lot of them, and even suggest wording for your emails.  It could be an invaluable phone call.

 

Edited 2 October, 2020 by aka_pseudonym

[J.R.]

This diagram posted on the other thread shows clearly the mistake that I made & the one I believe that the servicing garages have made whenever there has been an exploding diff straight after a Haldex oil change :

 

 

 

 

The correct Haldex drain plug looks identical to any of the other casing retaining bolts around it, it has a completely different head to the other 3 filler and drain plugs, if you correctly identify the Haldex filler plug No 2 then you look directly underneath it and find an obvious drain plug that has the same Torx head, the correct one is hidden at the front of the diff, does not resemble the others & looks like a casing bolt, its very hard to find with a vehicle jacked up but would be easier on a ramp but far from obvious.

 

If you do have an independant inspection then make sure they see that diagram, if you are able have a look yourself.

Edited 2 October, 2020 by J.R.

[John@C]

Dear aka_pseudonym ,

 

thanks for invaluable advice...Strangely it's all coincidential and the service coordinator has left...His number two just verbally mentioned...The damage to my car he has never seen before. Therefore, he technically crossed talk over my knowledge of car mechanics knowledge...Saying it's a one off.

 

[aka_pseudonym]

8 minutes ago, John@C said:

Dear aka_pseudonym ,

 

thanks for invaluable advice...Strangely it's all coincidential and the service coordinator has left...His number two just verbally mentioned...The damage to my car he has never seen before. Therefore, he technically crossed talk over my knowledge of car mechanics knowledge...Saying it's a one off.

 

 

The RAC told me to put: "I have been in touch with the RAC Legal Services and understand that the problems with this vehicle are all covered under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 specifically "Section 9 - Goods to be of satisfactory quality", "Section 10 - Goods to be fit for particular purpose", and "Section 23 - Right to repair or replacement".

 

Other sections might apply in your case obviously, but if your car went in with a perfectly good diff/haldex and came out with an exploding one that act will cover it because it covers both goods and services.  It'll probably be in Section 39, it's here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted

 

I'm almost certain it'll say somewhere that it's the garage's responsibility to show that it wasn't their fault, it's not your responsibility to prove it was unless a certain length of time has passed.  So saying "it's a one off" simply won't hack it.  Ring the experts at the RAC!

 

[John@C]

Dear aka_pseudonym,

 

 

This is a very sound suggestion and greatly appreciated , it has has lifted my spirits and I thank you... I will ring RAC on Monday pronto.

 

I feel lucky to be able to speak my piece as I sometimes drive long journeys on the motorway.

 

Appreciate all comments from all...Have a good weekend and will post any findings.

 

Regards

[J.R.]

How many miles had you driven since they did whatever it was they did and what sort of miles, motorway, short slow urban journeys etc?

 

I think I was very lucky indeed having done a couple of hundred miles mostly high speed on the motorway and autoroute loaded quite heavily, it was towards the end of that journey from the UK to France where I started to hear the differential noise, it was the beginning of the confinement so no journeys were permitted which also helped, if I had been doing my usual journey profile the noise increase would have been gradual if apparent at all, I thnk it was only because I got it super hot, most others seem to have failed catastrophically without any apparent warning, I suppose it depends on how much mechanical empathy the drivers had.

[John@C]

Dear J.R.

Was there much oil that leaked onto the ground? Whether it was the Haldex casing which I doubt or the diff casing which I believe there will have been a pretty big puddle growing quickly but it should have looked clean, I reckon it was a small amount of blackened oil.

 

 'I reckon it was a small amount of blackened oil.'

 

I will be contacting RAC...The Roadside mechanic did say it was the Haldex unit with a clean split and confirmed no external scratches...It was thin drips and when the car was stationery look underneath there was more of a thin puddle/layer of the rest of the oil .

 

The 6th anniversary of the car would be on the 18th October

[John@C]

13 hours ago, J.R. said:

This diagram posted on the other thread shows clearly the mistake that I made & the one I believe that the servicing garages have made whenever there has been an exploding diff straight after a Haldex oil change :

 

 

 

 

The correct Haldex drain plug looks identical to any of the other casing retaining bolts around it, it has a completely different head to the other 3 filler and drain plugs, if you correctly identify the Haldex filler plug No 2 then you look directly underneath it and find an obvious drain plug that has the same Torx head, the correct one is hidden at the front of the diff, does not resemble the others & looks like a casing bolt, its very hard to find with a vehicle jacked up but would be easier on a ramp but far from obvious.

 

If you do have an independant inspection then make sure they see that diagram, if you are able have a look yourself.

 

With all this going on this week, I did ask the Service advisor to forward videos  of their work which have always been provided in previous services. With your synopsis I now feel unfairly treated and compromised.

Edited 3 October, 2020 by John@C

[John@C]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

How many miles had you driven since they did whatever it was they did and what sort of miles, motorway, short slow urban journeys etc?

 

I think I was very lucky indeed having done a couple of hundred miles mostly high speed on the motorway and autoroute loaded quite heavily, it was towards the end of that journey from the UK to France where I started to hear the differential noise, it was the beginning of the confinement so no journeys were permitted which also helped, if I had been doing my usual journey profile the noise increase would have been gradual if apparent at all, I thnk it was only because I got it super hot, most others seem to have failed catastrophically without any apparent warning, I suppose it depends on how much mechanical empathy the drivers had.

How many miles had you driven since they did whatever it was they did and what sort of miles, motorway, short slow urban journeys etc?

 

• Less than 200 miles including motorways

 

[Benh]

Definitely get an independent inspection! Haldex units are extremely reliable IF serviced regularly (even more regularly than stated!) I'd not be surprised if a young apprentice did the haldex and drained and filled the wrong one, it's very easy to do! The haldex is hydraulic oil and is NOT a lubricant as such, but the diff oil IS a lubricant, if he's drained the diff and put haldex oil in that it would definitely cause it to blow in a very short time! Normally if the Haldex fails for any reason it just won't work, diffs however will overheat, sieze then blow. 

[John@C]

Dear Benh,

 

I'm on it today to arrange the collection on Monday...Even though my expenses have been stretched to the limit.

 

I thank you all once again for the graciousness with your posted replies.

Have a great weekend

 

Regards

[J.R.]

If he made the mistake that I and I believe many others have he will have drained the diff oil and tried to refill the Haldex only to find that it would take barely any oil, thus leaving the differential dry of oil except what was clinging to the CW&P.

 

Because I had removed the Haldex pump to clean the filter (which the main stealers dont do) then it had lost a quantity of oil by doing so, therefore when I went to refill I did get some fluid in, just not as much as the stated quantity, and as ever on t'internet various quantities were quoted, I did not twig to what was going on, in the past when I was regularly working on cars I would have recognised that what I had drained was diff oil but they smell very different now and are much thinner, in hindsight the big clue was that it was very very clean.

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, John@C said:

How many miles had you driven since they did whatever it was they did and what sort of miles, motorway, short slow urban journeys etc?

 

• Less than 200 miles including motorways

 

 

That sounds similar to  the other tales of woe that I have read after garages servicing the Haldex, I did maybe 300 miles and I now consider myself very very lucky to have noticed the increasing final drive noise & to have investigated and tried to put things right the next day.

 

I have diff noise but have done 7k miles and its not any worse (yet!) and may even be lack of soundproofing or tyre noise, whenever I go any distance especially when towing I have anxiety, in many ways I would be happier for it to worsen so that I could fit a second hand diff unit.

[John@C]

Dear JR,

 

appreciate your reply, we love the car still and was hoping since the cambelt was replaced and all the minor and major servicing was completed.We have a good runner.

I'm going to take it to another garage to get an independent check/report...I suspect they have cleaned up as much evidence as possible.

 

I don't carry much weigh generally...Only bags of 10mm  shingles  from my local Wickes during the lockdown back in May/June.

 

Regards