Winter roads, ice, snow and wet or dry driving in an EV..

[wyx087]

Indeed, as long as it's cheap/free, it doesn't matter.

 

I drove 110 miles today to spend half a day or so at a free museum. Used 37 kWh, probably more like 45 kWh from the plug account for battery precondition but still very pessimistic. That's just £3.40 for me. I took my parents to spend time with their grandson, also saves 2 households using their central heating. They are averaging £15 per day on heating last few days, today they only used £10. A net saving AND half day out.

 

Of course lunch costed £25 and kid's activity sheet costed £1, but it's possible to spend less than staying at home if efforts were made with packed food. That's just mad.

[Ootohere]

By the time I started charging today / now, that was 9 miles driven but several de-ices and 20% less battery showing with it at 79%.    So 9 kWh more or less.    Thank goodness for instant heating and for winter tyres.

   PS. 

Rapid charger that is not yet on CPS system and giving out electric free did not want to start on CCS so I plugged into it till 80% with AC and then tried again and it started,  now it is charging at around 13kW.    Snug as a bug in a rug.  Phone and Chromebook charging.  You need to work at being tight with money.  

 

Tariff should be 23 pence a kWh if they actually had the charger on the App / System so that it could be started on a phone.

 

Edited 11 December, 2022 by toot

[wyx087]

I have to confess my all-time average of 3.9 mi/kWh for Leaf is due to driving slower during winter commute so I can minimise not-home charging. Also probably due to not driving Leaf when temperature is extremely cold, icy or snow because I had all-season on my previous Octavia. 

 

I got around 2.9 mi/kWh in the Tesla over the weekend with -4c to 0c temperature. Drove it like I normally drive in these conditions: safe distances and more slow down for turns but no holding back with speed on well maintained motorways/dual. 

 

Just snowed here. Just typical: when I had all-season tyres, snow didn't persist on the ground. When I have summer tyres snow stays on the ground and temperature is freezing for days. 

[Ootohere]

Well i have done 12 miles since charging and when it was at 96%. 

Now at 76%.  (I will see when i get in the car next because that will be lower again.)

 

But it was -8*oC at 7 am this morning.    Showing 103 miles range.   

Actually if i was not to charge that might actually be under 50 miles if the weather stays as it is and my routine does.

 

*Average speed in the 20 mph and 30 mph limit for 1 mile each way, down hill first, up hill coming back shows as 11 mph. there is a set of traffic light.*

 

The Community carers coming to my mum are not that impressed with the e-Up!,s they are driving for charging and range.

But then the ones i have spoken with seem to know nothing about getting energy from regeneration. 

There journeys will be like mine. short cold trips several times a day, maybe many more times a day than me.     Edit.  1 mile later on and 11.50.  74% / 98 mile range.   Beautiful blue sky and sunshine and minus 2*oC.  Lol.  

Edited 12 December, 2022 by toot

[Ootohere]

Crap when charging at minus 3.   This 50 kW charger I am on started at 13 kW and by the time at 86% was down to 6kW.  So now I am using the AC and getting 7kW.      It would help if I had 11kW AC on board charging but I am not alone in not having that.  

 

Filler flap needs a hard hit to break ice then prised open. 

Edited 12 December, 2022 by toot

[wyx087]

Dual-motor EV vs Audi systems in snow with summer tyres: 

 

 

86% but only 6 kW…… cold battery?  Does Corsa and 208 cars have battery heaters? Running it down should also give you faster charging speeds. 

[Ootohere]

As long as people remember what goes up must come down when out on public roads.

Not nice with big fat vehicles with no grip / traction / steering when they become a toboggan and it is a kerb that might direct them and something hard that stops them.

 

@wyx087

Running a 45 kW battery down to 20% is going to give a faster charging speed.

 

But considering that mean you are sitting possible not able to drive 10 miles and there can be snow or power cuts anytime that is not the greatest of things to do.

So if i have to set off to cover a bit of a journey like 25 miles into and out of Dundee and even have to take a diversion i will just try to stay up to 90% before parking up at night. 

I could plug in at home, pre heat and de-ice but really i am not going to spend money when i can charge free. 

Edited 12 December, 2022 by toot

[Ootohere]

Charging.  Minus 9*oC again.  Only 4 miles driven.  4 x 1 mile.  Defrosting needed for a few mins.  80% when onto charger so about 5kW used.   EDIT,  1 hour on the AC tethered.  7 kW taken and car only showing 83% .  It certainly does not like the cold.  

 

So that is cheap Public Charging @ 23 pence a kWh.

Over £2 for only 4 miles in 24 hours and that is not back to where it was at yesterday.

So possibly £1 a mile if i was to get it back charged up.  

 

That is why a Stellantis / PSA EV is not great.  & why today there are news articles on the orders or purchases of EV's dropping.

 

 

Edited 13 December, 2022 by toot

[wyx087]

I used 6% of 75-80 kWh battery to drive 6 miles this morning. No charging no preconditioning, car sat unused since Sunday due to snow.

That's almost 5 kWh for just 6 miles...... if only driving 1 mile journeys it would probably be worse than 1 kWh for 1 mile.

[Ootohere]

I did my Electric Angel thing this lunch time and i will get helped sometime probably / hopefully as i have been by others in the past.

 

I was charging free at Tesco while doing nothing and someone came in passed with a Mini Electric and was at a loss as no PodPoint app.

 

So he was a Delivery driver who was up to Aberdeen to get a Tesla to take to London, with trade plates,

he was asked to take the MINI instead.

So he arrived in Forfar with 12% & i offered to take him a mile to the charging hub back towards the main road.

The chargers were all occupied but a Polestar 2 driver who was going to Stirling let him on the charger.

His Debit or Credit car would not start the charger, he had no CPS card or App so i paid for his charge by starting with my card.

 

I showed him the route & gave the postcodes to Perth and to Stirling Park and Ride's without going to Dundee and where if needs must he can charge in Perth, Auchterarder or Dunblane but he should get to Stirling Park & Ride or near to and use his Debit / Credit.

He put into WAZE.

 

So the charger went off at 80% and the 3 others went off and he had got only 80% but it showed on the car he had 90 miles.

He has 70 miles to go to Stirling.

 

What a PITA in a MINI Electric but hopefully he is OK to there then to Gretna Green then onwards and any Gridserve charging.

 

He was not concerned about cost of charging as not him paying & just getting a move on and down south.

This was his first hassle of delivery driving because he drives Tesla's and uses SuperChargers.

 

EDIT.

Must have charged to more than 80% which is good.

 

That will be 100% battery if 28.9 usable capacity and it was at 10% when charging started.

 

 

Thankfully for him he is escaping the coldest weather and hopefully any snow. 

 

EDIT. 26.522kWh / £6.11 for that charge. 

Edited 14 December, 2022 by toot

[Ootohere]

This would have been my EV of choice if snowbound in drifts but unless the roof is body coloured it would have to be an Enyaq vRS Coupe in Orange or Lime. 

 

I need a rear wiper, and if there is one it has not to get frozen to the rear screen. the heated rear screen has to heat under the wiper blade.

That is just a basic car engineering requirement.

 

Edited 16 December, 2022 by toot

[Ootohere]

Lovely with the snow frozen this morning and the Tesco car park including charger bays have been ploughed.   More than can be said for the council public chargers around here. 

Plough or just gritting / salted would be nice at the chargers if empty as they do the road or pavements beside them. 

 When cars are parked for many hours charging it can keep under the car clear but then over time the Snow off them can build up where you need to walk and plug in.  Ok for those fit and able.   Snow tyres make all the difference just for getting at chargers. 

 

 

 

Edited 17 December, 2022 by toot

[Ootohere]

I was pleasantly surprised at my cars energy loss sitting since Wednesday in pretty cold nights and not that warm days until today.   It was showing 96% and 170 miles.  Door unlocked a few times but not turned on or moved.  So today when it got in  it was showing 178 miles and 2 miles later when I plugged into the charger it was at 93%.    Fairs well for leaving the car parked up for a few weeks. 

[Ootohere]

Cold days and nights again and I have been back to needing to put in more than 7 kWh a day to do less than 7 miles a day in 1 mile trips.    So not even getting 1 mile per kWh.    But then dead cozy in that 3 minute drive.  Air so dry no de-icing required.  Lovely blue sky.     Ps.  If paying 28 pence a kWh then near £2.    Petrol 150 pence a litre.  and 7 miles a liter might well be easy enough in many cars doing the same 1 mile cold start trips. 

Edited 18 January, 2023 by toot

[wyx087]

Monday morning I was getting 600 Wh/mi initially in the big car, settled down to 400 Wh/mi (2.5 mi/kWh) after doing 6 miles return school drop off. 

Tuesday charged Leaf to 100% and wife got it down to mid 50% with 12 miles total school run + detour to shops. Recharge back to 100% used 8.2 kWh, so around 1.5 mi/kWh 

 

Short trips kills efficiency. But same, we wouldn't have it any other way. Wife was very happy this morning, no scraping, simply turn on pre-condition 10-min before leaving. 

[Ootohere]

I have taken out my 4x4 a few times each week to give it a run for a few miles. Not bothered that there is no heating in the car unless going 10 miles or so.

 

The leather seats are quick heating, and need switched off within 1 minute,

but i will never have a car in the future without a heated steering wheel. 

Edited 18 January, 2023 by toot

[wyx087]

1 minute ago, toot said:

but i will never have a car in the future without a heated steering wheel. 

Totally must-have for us too.

 

Leather seats are option. Heated seats are a must for leather seats. If not leather, as long as the material is easy to wipe clean and wouldn't easily stain.

[Luckypants]

As I've got older i find my hands get cold on long journeys, so heated steering wheel is a must these days.

[wyx087]

87 miles yesterday, stopping at my parents for morning and then further up the road (A1M) to kid's birthday party. -4c to 1c, 330 Wh/mi, 3 mi/kWh. Washer fluid did work and I took it easy with family. 

 

28 miles commute this morning, -6c, 380 Wh/mi, 2.6 mi/kWh, hammered at "70"mph set with AP up the M1. Windscreen washer fluid isn't coming out 😞, I need to buy some super strong concentrated to mix it in. 

 

This morning, I kept an eye on trip display. Consumption started at almost 500 Wh/mi, this trip-average slowly dropping initially, then started dropping quickly after 20min, down to what I got eventually. Unsurprisingly if driving short journeys, get bad efficiency figure. 

 

Leaf was at around 55%, after 12mi school runs on Friday which is much less than 2mi/kWh. So my wife also wanted to charge the Leaf due to freezing temperature. I charged both cars last night in 4 hour cheap period, 7 kW on Tesla and granny charger, ~2.4 kW on Leaf, plus conservatory dehumidifier, I pulled over 10 kW during most of 4 hour period. My energy monitor tells me outdoor (not through house interior fuse box) used 35 kWh to charge 2 cars.

With Chademo V2H installed, probably be looking at ~45 kWh in 4 hour cheap period if charging both cars, I'll be looking at install a linked smoke alarm and some fire suppression auto-break-on-heat thing before next winter. 

[Luckypants]

I'm using Halfords -20C screen wash and it hasn't frozen yet. The standard -12C stuff doesn't work with VW spray washer nozzles, the spray freezes.

 

Edited 24 January, 2023 by Luckypants

[Ootohere]

I use -23*oC Screen wash and it has not frozen in the bottle.

 

Last week at only -2*oC and very dry air and no frost at 4.30 pm i was 100 yards from home around the corner and my car got salty mess on the screen from a van coming the other way and sprayed the windscreen and could see nothing.

The screen was covered in ice.  Luckily nothing behind and i indicated stopped at the kerb and got out and sprayed the -20*oC de-icer on the screen. 

[wyx087]

29 minutes ago, toot said:

got out and sprayed the -20*oC de-icer on the screen.

I've gotten rid of de-icer and scrapper now with all EV....... looks like they are still useful in extreme weather. 

 

Ordered some -19 concentrated screenwash from Tesco click&collect. Add it in without diluting will hopefully make the fluid more resilient to freezing, it's about half full. 

 

 

EV's really need some resistive heater in the washer bottle and the spray nozzles. Model Y have heated elements at the wiper park location to keep it soft and wipe well, but there's absolutely nothing for fluid and nozzles. 

Edited 24 January, 2023 by wyx087

[Ootohere]

Never used a scrapper in my life ever even in the coldest of Scottish Winter, and never will..

I use de-icer or used to use Pre-deicer.   

 

-20*oC deicer used currently for side windows to get them open when getting into the car and heater on at full and rear screen and heated mirrors on. 

 

Mirrors not folding is the most important thing.

Those stupid camera things on the new EV's need to be able to be locked in position and those on the Hyundai Ioniq 6 will be hopeless.

[Ootohere]

Charging for the 2nd time this morning.  -2*oC start in Aberdeenshire at 99% and had only 110 range on snowy roads and charging in Dunblane for the 40 min max got me 33kw so needed to come to Stirling to complete to near full on a rapid for 30-40 mins.  But temp up to 10 celcius so will get as better efficiency and can head south west and get free charging.  The time limit frees up chargers but 40 mins is just not long enough if no return in 90. Mins.  But then you just use different cards.   

[wyx087]

 

Interesting test methodology. Not how most EV owners with home charging drive their cars.

They charged up to 100%, left the car for 14 hours and come back next day to charge again to 100% and do the test. Most EV manual will say don't do small top ups to 100%, it degrades the battery in the long term. They did not publish what sort of temperature battery is at.

 

I would (with limited 4 hours cheap period, it recharges 35% on my car) charge to whatever so that end with ~70% the previous day, charge to 100% AND turn on pre-condition with minimum cabin temperature during cheap period to pre-condition the battery. Then a few hours later drive the car with a warmer battery.

 

I've bought "s3xy buttons" and been monitoring how the car behaves . Without overnight pre-conditioning while plugged in, after overnight charging, car battery is at a few degrees above ambient in the morning. With overnight pre-conditioning, car battery is around 12c when I come to drive it in the morning. Battery temperature does play a noticeable part in vehicle overall efficiency.