Planning to Tow With a New Car - BEWARE

[AviationNut]

All,

Dropped the car off this morning for the towbar fitting. Fitter hadn't done a Octavia Mk4 before so had a good look at the car and then informed me that he couldn't fit it. There is no Gross Train Weight listed on the Vehicle Identification plate so without that it would not be legal to tow (GTW listed as 0Kg on the plate). Fitter mentioned this had happened once before with a Kodiaq.  Skoda ended up replacing the car for the customer. 

Once I had picked myself up off the floor I drove over to the supplying dealer for a chat. Dealer has taken it up with Skoda UK and has stated that Skoda may need to replace the car as he remembers me clearly stating I was intending to tow when I agreed the deal. Dealer said the plate was incorrect as the GTW should be at minimum the Gross Vehicle Weight (1900Kg)

See what happens next week when Skoda reply. 

Unfortunetly I need to move the Caravan next month to get it serviced and have holidays booked.  Cannot see a quick resolution!!!!

[Carlston]

Why didn't you order the car with a factory fitted towbar? Maybe cost or having to wait for the delivery of a factory order.

 

Skodas with factory fitted towbars are usually fitted with stiffer rear springs, eg. one weight range higher. However, unless the caravan's nose weight is more than about 50kg I wouldn't have thought this was necessary...especially when fitting stiffer rear springs means compromising the ride quality.

 

Edited 16 April, 2021 by Carlston

[AviationNut]

Car ordered from stock. Some VAG group towbar electrics from the factory are missing the feed for the Caravan fridge. Price is £435 for aftermarket and £800+ for factory fit. Quite a difference!

[Baxlin]

10 hours ago, AviationNut said:

Car ordered from stock. Some VAG group towbar electrics from the factory are missing the feed for the Caravan fridge. Price is £435 for aftermarket and £800+ for factory fit. Quite a difference!

With hindsight (of course) cheap at the price, because of the inconvenience.

 

Having made that unhelpful comment, I sympathise with you, I have never spec’d a towbar on a car, always fitting my own, both ironware and electrics.

 

I wonder if any of those were illegal for this reason, never having checked, just advising my insurers...

 

 

[Ootohere]

Fingers crossed that the Dealership & Skoda UK can get you a car suitable for your needs.

 

If the version of car as built and sold really has no approval to tow then they will need to replace the car.

If the Dealership Employees and Skoda UK do not know there are versions of the car that can not have a towbar fitted for towing or is illegal to tow with then that is a serious situation for Skoda UK & Dealerships.

 

People including sales were caught out with this one.  There were customers that were landed with unsuitable vehicles and their will be buyers of used vehicles caught out with something not suitable for them when they can not tow.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/429261-dont-buy-a-201718-150ps-4wd-man-7-seat-if-you-tow

 

 

 

Edited 17 April, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[AviationNut]

Thanks for the replies. 

I've just emailed the dealer to ask about options for swapping the car. I don't think Skoda will play ball on this as it is clearly stated in the info you have sent (Skoda Document). Possibly down to the goodwill of the selling dealer who in my case has no idea that Skoda or putting such limitations on certain models. This is going to play havoc in the used car market in years to come. May drop a line to the Caravan Club see if they know. A lot of Skodas on C Club sites I notice.

Had to laugh when I visited the dealers yesterday, my old Karoq was still for sale! Maybe an option!!!!

[Phil-E]

Wow. That's shocking. But sounds like the dealer has just assumed that the car will be suitable for towing a d gone off the general boom figures for this.

 

It probably stated somewhere in the paperwork the dealer had from Skoda that the car isn't suitable for towing.

 

But it was their responsibility to know about this and inform you so that you could make an informed decision and not buy the car (since it's not suitable for your use).

 

I think it's gonna come down to the dealer having to put things right with you and they have to battle it out with Skoda UK. It would seem unfair for them to keep you waiting and getting you involved in the bath and forth between them.

 

I remember reading that a certain model and spec of the Kodiaq not being suitable for towing (was it the 7 seat with DSG or something). And the MK1 Fabia vRS never got towing approval and also the MK2 Fabia vRS I think.

[Ootohere]

7 seat manual box Kodiaq. As in a link a few posts up.  There is an example of a Karoq that also is not as approved for towing.  Tow bars / balls can be fitted for carrying cycle racks. 

[Jmagee]

So is yours a iV aviationnut? All the rest say they can tow on the image above

[SurreyJohn]

6 hours ago, Phil-E said:

Wow. That's shocking. But sounds like the dealer has just assumed that the car will be suitable for towing a d gone off the general boom figures for this.

 

It probably stated somewhere in the paperwork the dealer had from Skoda that the car isn't suitable for towing.

 

But it was their responsibility to know about this and inform you so that you could make an informed decision and not buy the car (since it's not suitable for your use).

 

I think it's gonna come down to the dealer having to put things right with you and they have to battle it out with Skoda UK. It would seem unfair for them to keep you waiting and getting you involved in the bath and forth between them.

 

I remember reading that a certain model and spec of the Kodiaq not being suitable for towing (was it the 7 seat with DSG or something). And the MK1 Fabia vRS never got towing approval and also the MK2 Fabia vRS I think.

Legally it’s simple and clear cut.

 

You told the dealer you wanted to tow, they then supplied a car that can’t, so is unsuitable for purpose, and therefore doesn’t meet sales conditions under consumer law.

 

Dealer has 3 options : take back car and refund you; or fulfil sales contract by swapping it to a vehicle that can tow; or third option which is cancel (void) whole transaction and put everything back as it was (which would involve returning any part exchange to you).   The third option might not be possible if they no longer have any part exchange.

 

Unlike yourself (a consumer, thus protected by consumer law, sale of goods Act etc), the dealer will have a commercial (business) contractual relationship with Skoda UK.   How this works and how the dealer and Skoda move forward is none of your business, and should have no bearing on timeliness of your resolution with dealer (dealer can’t make fixing problem with you, conditional on how, or when, they get on with Skoda UK).

 

It appears you want to be able to tow next month, in practical terms that may determine what you and dealer agree.  If they can supply suitable alternative by then, probably easiest.  If not you may be searching for another car.  

 

 

[AviationNut]

Searching for an alternative car is the bit that worries me. Am I obliged to accept the first thing they offer? I rejected a Nissan Terrano once. What a saga!

[SurreyJohn]

5 hours ago, AviationNut said:

Searching for an alternative car is the bit that worries me. Am I obliged to accept the first thing they offer? I rejected a Nissan Terrano once. What a saga!

In legal terms, depends on what you previously stated you needed or paid for.   If they offer something that has a different spec, it is a counter offer, and clearly any price adjustment they suggest forms part of their counter offer.   It’s really upto you if it is acceptable instead.  
 

If they can’t find something suitable, they might just go for return of funds. There is a point where they will deem it to hard to fulfil.

 

Your problem might be that if they offer money back, they will expect instant return of the car.  The transaction becomes closed, and you have money but no car, and dealer has ended finding you alternative.    It is why you need to balance how far to push the dealer to find a suitable alternative.

 

[Ajdude]

On 16/04/2021 at 17:58, AviationNut said:

All,

Dropped the car off this morning for the towbar fitting. Fitter hadn't done a Octavia Mk4 before so had a good look at the car and then informed me that he couldn't fit it. There is no Gross Train Weight listed on the Vehicle Identification plate so without that it would not be legal to tow (GTW listed as 0Kg on the plate). Fitter mentioned this had happened once before with a Kodiaq.  Skoda ended up replacing the car for the customer. 

Once I had picked myself up off the floor I drove over to the supplying dealer for a chat. Dealer has taken it up with Skoda UK and has stated that Skoda may need to replace the car as he remembers me clearly stating I was intending to tow when I agreed the deal. Dealer said the plate was incorrect as the GTW should be at minimum the Gross Vehicle Weight (1900Kg)

See what happens next week when Skoda reply. 

Unfortunetly I need to move the Caravan next month to get it serviced and have holidays booked.  Cannot see a quick resolution!!!!

Hi @AviationNut did you get a view from your wife about the legal standing of the situation?  Thanks.

[KenONeill]

On 17/04/2021 at 16:07, AviationNut said:

I rejected a Nissan Terrano once.

Accepting a Nissan Terrano is also grounds for voiding the contract, due to "want of understanding" ;-) 

[AviationNut]

11 minutes ago, Ajdude said:

Hi @AviationNut did you get a view from your wife about the legal standing of the situation?  Thanks.

Hi Ajdude,

Wife rang her legal team this morning and they will reply within 24 hours so should know more tomorrow.

My fitter said it was illegal in my case to fit the bar but others say it's OK to fit so long as it's used for say a bike rack and not to tow (one expensive bike rack holder!). Hopefully they can answer this in addition to advising on my / our consumer rights.

On a side note my dealer has written to Skoda UK to ask for advice on what would be required to modify / update the VIN plate. Credit to the salesman they have been very proactive on this. Stupid thing is the issue seems to be having 'Towbar Preperation' fitted from the factory as a minimum. From what I've been told from the dealer this is mearly wiring from the fusebox area to the boot area. The dealer said he can fit this although this wiring is included in the dedicated kits the fitters use! I asked about additional cooling (bigger fan) but no not for this (UK) market apparently. See what Skoda come back with. I'll update ASAP

[AviationNut]

2 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Accepting a Nissan Terrano is also grounds for voiding the contract, due to "want of understanding" ;-) 

Disappointing vehicle the Terrano. Never really happy with it.

[MCG1975]

I'm not an experienced tower by any measure, and specified a towbar on my company Octavia as I thought it would be useful if we got a caravan in the future, but reading the above I'm now confused and slightly concerned that I won't be able to tow.  I'm not 100% clear on what all the numbers mean on the plate in the b pillar - took a photo as below as my car (SE Technology) doesn't appear on the list posted above.  Am I ok to tow, and what sort of weight limitation do I have, assuming it's not just for bike racks!?

[26DIPP]

I could have fallen into this trap.

 

Stupid question - What makes a car more suitable for towing over a similar model where both cars have the same chassis, the same brakes and only the manufacturer's approval process differs?

[Ajdude]

1 hour ago, MCG1975 said:

I'm not an experienced tower by any measure, and specified a towbar on my company Octavia as I thought it would be useful if we got a caravan in the future, but reading the above I'm now confused and slightly concerned that I won't be able to tow.  I'm not 100% clear on what all the numbers mean on the plate in the b pillar - took a photo as below as my car (SE Technology) doesn't appear on the list posted above.  Am I ok to tow, and what sort of weight limitation do I have, assuming it's not just for bike racks!?

So based upon what I know.  Your plate looks fine.  The second number is the gross train weight and so the difference between that number and the first number is what you are allowed to tow upto (your trailer/ caravans plated weight). 
 

The issue some of seem to have is that we have 0 as the second number.  So we are unsure if legally we are allowed to tow anything.   
 

hopefully I’ve got my understanding correct.  

[AviationNut]

8 hours ago, 26DIPP said:

I could have fallen into this trap.

 

Stupid question - What makes a car more suitable for towing over a similar model where both cars have the same chassis, the same brakes and only the manufacturer's approval process differs?

Not a stupid question at all. That's what I've been asking the dealer and they are asking Skoda.  

What does your VIN plate state?

[just music]

I read somewhere (was it in the thread about handling?) that towbar prep changes the rear suspension settings, as well as installing all the cabling etc.

[MCG1975]

16 hours ago, Ajdude said:

So based upon what I know.  Your plate looks fine.  The second number is the gross train weight and so the difference between that number and the first number is what you are allowed to tow upto (your trailer/ caravans plated weight). 
 

The issue some of seem to have is that we have 0 as the second number.  So we are unsure if legally we are allowed to tow anything.   
 

hopefully I’ve got my understanding correct.  

 

Great, many thanks for clarifying that - so I can tow up to 1,500kg which if I apply the 85% rule I heard somewhere gives 1,275kg.  Seems OK as I don't think we'd be getting a massive caravan!

[AviationNut]

Wife had a call from her legal people today. Didn't say anything we don't really know just clarification from a consumer point really. In my case I should be able to get a refund or alternative car. Don't know the legality of  towing Didn't mention that, assume I can't as previously mentioned.

[AviationNut]

12 hours ago, just music said:

I read somewhere (was it in the thread about handling?) that towbar prep changes the rear suspension settings, as well as installing all the cabling etc.

Dealer has told me that the Towbar Prep consists of three parts, two looms and a diffuser.  That's for the UK models. I'm surprised no mention of cooling modifications (hot and high countries?) and no idea what the diffuser is for.

[TheUltraRunner]

1 hour ago, AviationNut said:

Dealer has told me that the Towbar Prep consists of three parts, two looms and a diffuser.  That's for the UK models. I'm surprised no mention of cooling modifications (hot and high countries?) and no idea what the diffuser is for.

Could be that diffusor is pre-cut or at least outlined for the hole for the towbar?