Tyre replacement for Karoq 1.5TSi (2WD) - 215/50 R18 92W - Limited Choices

[smipx]

I know there have been some threads before about tyres for the Karoq but I wanted to ask a question about Speed rating and tyre choices for us poor folk who have the pretty uncommon 215/50 R18 size.  I guess a fair few of us are getting to that <4mm stage and starting to think about replacements. My car is starting to get close to needing a couple of front tyres and at the moment I have the Turanza's.  I don't particularly like these as they are noisy and the front wheels are a bit too keen to spin up in the wet or whan taking off uphill in less that perfect conditions. 

 

I started today looking at choices and due to the W rating on the "recommended" tyres (this is what comes up when I pop my Reg into all of the tyre sites), the selection is pretty thin.  I wanted to check the "lagal" side of things as I can find a tyre that gets very well rated at a good price (compared to the uber expensive Michelin tyre) but its V rated. I also really would prefer a tyre that has a bit of "Rim Protection" because, for all of its faults, the Turanza hass saved my alloys a couple of times when kerbing.

 

Prices at 4/11/2021

- Bridgestone Turanza t001                                            W                      £136

- Michelin Primacy 4 AO                                                  W                      £154   

- Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance 2                      V                       £123

There are, of course, several others but the GY Efficientgrip appeals because it is meant to be ultra quiet and also it gets pretty good reviews at some of the testing magazine sites and also via the tyrereviews.com website 

 

The problem is   the V rating

now.....  As far as I can tell the V rating is up to 149Mph and W is up to 168mph

 

If I went for a V would it be a problem from insurance perspective.  I don't want to invalidate my policy. If so then I guess I'll have to shell out on the Michelin's as I'm not getting the awful Turanza's that were fitted at the factory.

 

thanks

Paul

 

Edited 4 November, 2021 by smipx

[Lussac]

When I had my Jaguar XF I replaced my OEM Dunlop Maxx tyres with first Vredestein Ultrac and then Vredestein Sportrac which were both very good, on that car the wheels were 20" but are available in your size from either Blackcircles or Mytyres.

[Sanqhar]

Regarding the speed rating, why don't you just ask the insurance company?

 

You could also fit smaller wheels, this increases tyre choice. 

 

tom

[smipx]

I guess I could call the insurers 🙂

 

I would really like to know what tyres are officially approved for my rims. It may be that V is approved  - I just don't know. 

Is there a way to find out - I checked the owners manual and its not in there.  It does talk about all of the various speed ratings and load ratings but nothing on what is actually approved for my model and Rims. 

 

why do they make it so damn hard!  It never used to be like this.

[smipx]

What I can see is this for my Engine in teh manual:

 

 

I can further see this calculation in the Wheels and Tyres Workshop manual PDF:

 

 

So by my reckoning for my car (1.5TSi DSG) Vmax is 1.05 x 203Kmh = 213.15

 

Maximum speeds for the ratings (in Kmh) are:

H = 210

V = 240

W = 270

 

So that would say that V or W are fine.  Like I said - I just can't find the document that shows the accepted tyres.

 

I have my Type Approval Number (E8*2007/46*0272*10) but can't see a way to actually look at that either  - there seems to be no database that one can look at.

 

I guess I will have to email Skoda UK and ask them if V is approved for use based on my findings above and see what they email back to me.  I guess I could also ask them for a printout of the vehicle type approval.

 

Thanks

Paul

 

[Seymansey]

Gordon Bennett, You are over thinking this.

 

You don't get an approved tyre for the car, you get what the manufacturers supply and fit at the time. There are many tyres that were fitted to cars before which aren't available now. The critical bit is that you fit the right sized tyre and the speed rating meets or exceeds what came with the car. The quality of the tyre is irrelevant to a degree - which is why joe bloggs simply goes to the tyre fitters and say "cheapest tyres please". 

Edited 4 November, 2021 by Seymansey

[smipx]

Just now, Seymansey said:

You are over thinking this.

 

You don't get an approved tyre for the car, you get what the manufacturers supply and fit at the time. There are many tyres that were fitted to cars before which aren't available now. The critical bit is that you fit the right sized tyre and the speed rating meets or exceeds what came with the car. The quality of the tyre is irrelevant to a degree - which is why joe bloggs simply goes to the tyre fitters and say "cheapest tyres please". 

I am not sure you are right about having to go for the same or better (in terms of speed rating) to that which was suppied when the car was new. They may have fitted a W rated tyre at manufacture because that was the cheapest option or the available tyre they had at the point of manufacture.  The correct choice of tyre is surely to be determined by the Type rating and the calculation above.  The challenge is getting the details of the type rating?

[SurreyJohn]

Tyres, especially in uncommon sizes often only come in one speed rating per brand, the volumes are low enough, so no advantage in making both a 210 and a 240km/h version.   You can go up in speed rating without question.

 

Even without the variations, probably going to struggle to find anyone who actually stocks the low volume unusual sizes, so internet is your friend as going to have to be ordered anyway.

 

The wheel spin is partly due to using summer tyres in colder weather, it seems modern compound summer tyres are poor below about +10c in wet.   Clearly in UK we have few months of cold rain each year, so that is why people are changing to all-seasons (ideal for about -5c to +25c), or buying second set of cold weather (winter) wheels and tyres which are even better.

 

Not going to bore you with a physics lesson about rubber compounds, but can’t really make a tyre that is ideal when cold (too hard) or ideal when hot (soft and sticky and wears quickly).  
 

For 215/50 R18 my suggestion for all year tyres would be  (no particular order as prices and availability vary)

Goodyear vector 4 seasons Generation 3

Vredestein Quatrac Pro

Pirelli Cinturato all season SF2

Continental all season contact

@smipx your choices T001 and primacy etc are summer touring tyres, better suited to doing the miles on the Autoroute de soleil in high summer, designed to work temperatures more like +10c - +40c, than soggy UK in Autumn.

 

If you are wondering why manufacturers fit summer touring tyres, it is because official WLTP tests are done at +23c so they minimise fuel consumption at test temperature.  Of course average day and night temp in UK are nothing like +23c

 

 

Edited 4 November, 2021 by SurreyJohn

[J.R.]

18 minutes ago, smipx said:

I am not sure you are right about having to go for the same or better (in terms of speed rating) to that which was suppied when the car was new. They may have fitted a W rated tyre at manufacture because that was the cheapest option or the available tyre they had at the point of manufacture.  The correct choice of tyre is surely to be determined by the Type rating and the calculation above.  The challenge is getting the details of the type rating?

Correct, disregard the well intentioned but incorrect advice, you need to find what wheel and tyre sizes (inc speed rating) were homologated for your vehicle, you can request an EU certificate of conformity from VAG and they are one of the fe manufacturers that dont (currently) charge for the service, it will list all the tyre and rim variants homologated for your particular vehicle, the number that you have is the reference and there may be a way to search for the info on the net.

 

A much simpler way is to look at the tyre pressure sticker on the rear of the fuel filler flap, if it has not been changed then it should list all the homologated tyres, mine corresponds with my CoC but I can't recall if it shows the speed and load ratings.

 

Another way might be to ask an MOT tester, here in France a vehicle fails on non homologated wheel & tyres so when they input the VIN number as well as getting the emissions test limits they also get the permissable wheel and tyre combinations from the homologation certificate, I don't know if UK testers get the same info.

[smipx]

Okay so for anyone who's interested 🙂

 

You can search for your car's type approval document by googling the type approval number on your V5. It is in German but can be translated.

 

For the karoq with 18" Alloys (7J/18/H2) 

I have found the type approval document and for my variant (ACDADAX0 - also obtained from your V5 Document) and 7J/18/H2 the speed rating in the type approval says "W" so "W" it will need to be!!

 

This is the type approval: https://az749841.vo.msecnd.net/sitesdede/alv1/aa547632-9b71-4e0e-8383-c3d830d45035/Serienreifen_Skoda_2020_02.97fa7a1abca18d92b2053b4faaa80588.pdf 

It covers a load of models and years!!

My car is on page 351!!

 

 

[smipx]

18 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

Tyres, especially in uncommon sizes often only come in one speed rating per brand, the volumes are low enough, so no advantage in making both a 210 and a 240km/h version.   You can go up in speed rating without question.

 

Even without the variations, probably going to struggle to find anyone who actually stocks the low volume unusual sizes, so internet is your friend as going to have to be ordered anyway.

 

The wheel spin is partly due to using summer tyres in colder weather, it seems modern compound summer tyres are poor below about +10c in wet.   Clearly in UK we have few months of cold rain each year, so that is why people are changing to all-seasons (ideal for about -5c to +25c), or buying second set of cold weather (winter) wheels and tyres which are even better.

 

Not going to bore you with a physics lesson about rubber compounds, but can’t really make a tyre that is ideal when cold (too hard) or ideal when hot (soft and sticky and wears quickly).  
 

For 215/50 R18 my suggestion for all year tyres would be  (no particular order as prices and availability vary)

Goodyear vector 4 seasons Generation 3

Vredestein Quatrac Pro

Pirelli Cinturato all season SF2

Continental all season contact

@smipx your choices T001 and primacy etc are summer touring tyres, better suited to doing the miles on the Autoroute de soleil in high summer, designed to work temperatures more like +10c - +40c, than soggy UK in Autumn.

 

Thanks for that.  Maybe I will look for some "all season" tyres instead.  When you get these cars they always seem to have summer tyres supplied so I blindly assume that this is the best tyre but I can completely see your point.  I will look into those recco's.  Cheers,  Paul

 

[SurreyJohn]

6 minutes ago, smipx said:

Thanks for that.  Maybe I will look for some "all season" tyres instead.  When you get these cars they always seem to have summer tyres supplied so I blindly assume that this is the best tyre but I can completely see your point.  I will look into those recco's.  Cheers,  Paul

 

Just edited my post above to explain reason for summer touring tyres (they suit WLTP tests at +23c)

 

To be clear 92W is minimum weight rating, and minimum speed rating. Can have tyres with equal or higher values, but never below.  
 

Edited 4 November, 2021 by SurreyJohn

[smipx]

Interestingly - it also says "Schneeketten Zulassig  NO" which by the letter of the law you are not allowed to use snow chains on these tyres / rims and if you do I assume you would be invalidating your insurance.

[smipx]

2 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

Just edited my post above to explain reason for summer touring tyres (they suit WLTP tests at +23c)

So...  For the average "jo" who just wants one set of tyres for the whole year (and bearing in mind that we do 2 or 3 days of 30C and above would one be better going with a summer tyre for all year round use or an all season tyre?

[SurreyJohn]

3 minutes ago, smipx said:

So...  For the average "jo" who just wants one set of tyres for the whole year (and bearing in mind that we do 2 or 3 days of 30C and above would one be better going with a summer tyre for all year round use or an all season tyre?

All seasons can be safely used at +30c or +35c,  just not quite as good as at +20c.  Similarly if get warmer day winter tyres can be used at +15c, but they are better at +5c

 

However you will find summer tyres grip falls rapidly below about +10c in wet (nearer +4c in dry).  So much better to have a tyre that can cope with 5 months of cold damp mornings, than handful of hot dry high summer days

 

 

[skomaz]

Another option for you - Falken Azenis FK510:

Falken AZENIS FK510 215/50 R18 92W SUV @ mytyres.co.uk

 

We have them on our Kodiaq and whilst I was dubious at first they are proving to be a very good tyre

[CJJE]

6 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

All seasons can be safely used at +30c or +35c,  just not quite as good as at +20c.  Similarly if get warmer day winter tyres can be used at +15c, but they are better at +5c

 

However you will find summer tyres grip falls rapidly below about +10c in wet (nearer +4c in dry).  So much better to have a tyre that can cope with 5 months of cold damp mornings, than handful of hot dry high summer days

 

 

I also favour all-season tyres, but suggest that you need to read the test reports carefully as the German-based ones can place a strong emphasis on their performance on snow, while in the UK (south of the Scottish Highlands at least) I'd place more emphasis on their performance in the wet at low temperatures. Continental tyres for instance get good reviews but Michelins may well be more suited to UK conditions.

[smipx]

26 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

All seasons can be safely used at +30c or +35c,  just not quite as good as at +20c.  Similarly if get warmer day winter tyres can be used at +15c, but they are better at +5c

 

However you will find summer tyres grip falls rapidly below about +10c in wet (nearer +4c in dry).  So much better to have a tyre that can cope with 5 months of cold damp mornings, than handful of hot dry high summer days

 

 

🙂

Many thanks

[smipx]

17 minutes ago, CJJE said:

I also favour all-season tyres, but suggest that you need to read the test reports carefully as the German-based ones can place a strong emphasis on their performance on snow, while in the UK (south of the Scottish Highlands at least) I'd place more emphasis on their performance in the wet at low temperatures. Continental tyres for instance get good reviews but Michelins may well be more suited to UK conditions.

Thanks.  I will now do some research.  At least I have time and am not under pressure with a flat or bald tyre so I can take my time

I only need to replace the fronts at the moment so I assume if I did replace just two (as 4 new tyres would be a financial stretch on one hit) then I assume they would be best on the front (until such a time as I replaced the rears with similar.

 

cheers,

Paul

 

[Phutters]

4 minutes ago, smipx said:

I only need to replace the fronts at the moment so I assume if I did replace just two (as 4 new tyres would be a financial stretch on one hit) then I assume they would be best on the front (until such a time as I replaced the rears with similar.

.

 

I'm not sure if it's what you mean, but you really shouldn't mix all-seasons and summer tyres.

 

Not a good plan at all.

 

.

[smipx]

In which case I would have to stick with summer tyres because I can't afford to replace all 4 at once.

 

[Seymansey]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Correct, disregard the well intentioned but incorrect advice, you need to find what wheel and tyre sizes (inc speed rating) were homologated for your vehicle, you can request an EU certificate of conformity from VAG and they are one of the fe manufacturers that dont (currently) charge for the service, it will list all the tyre and rim variants homologated for your particular vehicle, the number that you have is the reference and there may be a way to search for the info on the net.

 

A much simpler way is to look at the tyre pressure sticker on the rear of the fuel filler flap, if it has not been changed then it should list all the homologated tyres, mine corresponds with my CoC but I can't recall if it shows the speed and load ratings.

 

Another way might be to ask an MOT tester, here in France a vehicle fails on non homologated wheel & tyres so when they input the VIN number as well as getting the emissions test limits they also get the permissable wheel and tyre combinations from the homologation certificate, I don't know if UK testers get the same info.

 

 

Where is any of this enforced in the UK? It simply isn't. Where have insurance claims failed as a result not using homologated tyres? Certainly it's possible for EU countries, and I agree inspection is tougher (especially TuV) but not in the UK.

 

You go to your local tyre place, they look at the sidewall, they tell you the prices for the budget, medium and high brands and thats that. 

 

In an MOT, tyre condition is checked, but you'll only get an advisories or fails is the tyre is aged or in an unaccepable condition. 

 

To be clear, I do tend to stick with whatever the OE tyre is for my cars - Continentals for my Mercedes and the Karoq (should it ever get built) will get the same Michelins that it came with for as long as possible, but if people think that we get penalised for using non manufacturer recommended tyres in the UK, then they are clearly mistaken. The majority of the UK population simply don't have tyre choices top of mind when it comes to ratings, seasons etc because there isn't the focus nor legal obligation for people to care, other than keep them pumped up and free of dangerous wear.

Edited 4 November, 2021 by Seymansey

[J.R.]

1 minute ago, Seymansey said:

 

 

Where is any of this enforced in the UK? It simply isn't. Where have insurance claims failed as a result not using homologated tyres? Certainly for EU countries, but no, not here. 

 

If you are going to ask me questions it would be better not to contradict the answers before I have even replied.

 

I have a couple for you though without answering them for you:

 

Where have these insurance claims "certainly" been refused in EU countries?

 

Where did I say or even intimate that any of this was enforced in the UK?

[smipx]

For me (in the south-west of England where snow is pretty rare) combined with the fact that I should not have 2 all season tyres on the front and two summer tyres on the rear I think I am going to stick with Summer tyres.

[smipx]

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

If you are going to ask me questions it would be better not to contradict the answers before I have even replied.

 

I have a couple for you though without answering them for you:

 

Where have these insurance claims "certainly" been refused in EU countries?

 

Where did I say or even intimate that any of this was enforced in the UK?

I agree 100%      and...  Would you really want to take the risk of having a claim refused if you had a crash in the wet and the loss adjusters checked. I wouldn't for sure - and if someone was injured in the accident then how would it make me feel to think I scrimped on the tyres just to save £30 per corner.

 

I also wouldn't want to use tyres that were not approved for the car which is what led me to ask the question in the first place 🙂

I also would (now I have checked) also NOT want to pop all seasons on the front and have summers on the back - apparently it makes the car very unstable in any snow (should it snow here). That's the polar opposite of what I would want. 

If I can't afford £600 in one hit (for 4 new tyres) then my plan of sticking with the best two summer tyres for the front of the car (that I can begrudgingly afford) is the best plan (for me at least).

 

Edited 4 November, 2021 by smipx