Hi, new here but I'd hoped to get the benefit of the forums collective wisdom. I've got a manual Octavia Vrs 245, 69 plate, <30000 miles, that I bought approved used last October from Specialist Cars Dundee. 

I took it for its routine service and the health check at Hawco Skoda Inverness flagged an "oil leak from engine between engine and gear box. relevant TPI2051464/1. Advise replacement of flywheel bolts and locking fluid. may require clutch and flywheel if contaminated with oil" at a princely cost of over £2500. I assumed this would be a warranty issue as it was approved used, apparently a known issue and I thought this must result from a manufacturing defect but Skoda refused this, on the grounds that as I'd taken out an "all-in" policy to cover servicing costs it was a preexisting fault.

I fully appreciate I missed the small print about having an approved used warranty and the all in warranty overlapping (a very costly oversight it seems) but given the cars provenance and age, I can't help but think this is not an issue I should be having to deal with. I've been in touch with skoda and the skoda warranty department but have had very dismissive responses, any thoughts whether I'm wrong to expect any help/good will at all from Skoda or whether I just have to suck up my costly mistake? 

Thoughts appreciated!

Hello and welcome 

 

Sounds unreasonable to me.  It's a known issue, with a TPI.  You've been sold an 'approved used' car, which is now faulty.  In my opinion, I'd think this is their problem, and not yours.  If it was sold to you with a pre-existing fault, surely it's for the seller to take remedial action, or am I missing something?

 

I had a completely unrelated issue with a 2015 vRS, which I bought new.  The one thing I learned is that I should have consulted Consumer Direct/Trading Standards before I entered into any further dialogue with Skoda.  I won't be making that mistake again - a word to the wise.

 

Gaz

 

So are you saying that you have 2 warranties that should both cover this fault but neither will accept the claim because it is covered under another policy?

 

And that you paid an extra premium to be shafted by them?

 

Did they promote this extra warranty to you?

 

It's exactly what insurance companies do so I should not be surprised that the warranty providers are onto the same scam.

1 hour ago, VRS245Grey said:

Hi, new here but I'd hoped to get the benefit of the forums collective wisdom. I've got a manual Octavia Vrs 245, 69 plate, <30000 miles, that I bought approved used last October from Specialist Cars Dundee. 

I took it for its routine service and the health check at Hawco Skoda Inverness flagged an "oil leak from engine between engine and gear box. relevant TPI2051464/1. Advise replacement of flywheel bolts and locking fluid. may require clutch and flywheel if contaminated with oil" at a princely cost of over £2500. I assumed this would be a warranty issue as it was approved used, apparently a known issue and I thought this must result from a manufacturing defect but Skoda refused this, on the grounds that as I'd taken out an "all-in" policy to cover servicing costs it was a preexisting fault.

I fully appreciate I missed the small print about having an approved used warranty and the all in warranty overlapping (a very costly oversight it seems) but given the cars provenance and age, I can't help but think this is not an issue I should be having to deal with. I've been in touch with skoda and the skoda warranty department but have had very dismissive responses, any thoughts whether I'm wrong to expect any help/good will at all from Skoda or whether I just have to suck up my costly mistake? 

Thoughts appreciated!

I fail to see how a pre-paid service agreement can be held to override a warranty issue - or have I misunderstood the 'All-In policy' bit?

The Skoda Approved Used warranty should surely cover what appears to be a known TPI issue.  

My thoughts are how did Skoda Specialist Cars Dundee part of the John Clark Group deal with things.

(I know how HAWCO might. Sh!tes.)

 

Was this Skoda Approved Used Car Serviced to Manufacturers Recommendations, Guidelines, Specification or even Schedule when SSC,s Dundee put that Warranty on it?

 

Was the VAQ diff serviced @ 3 years or 30,000 miles, or before they sold it to you? 

 

Get the Master Tech at Skoda Specialist Cars Dundee to support your Warranty Claim.   

 

Maybe an issue is Hawco were doing the Service, work and not helping yu/

 

Talk with the Dealer Principal in Dundee if you are not already, and if necessary, a Senior Management / Director of John Clark Motor Group.

All done in writing, as well as in person. 

 

PS

Once you get this all sorted,  go for a day to Maud, Aberdeenshire and have Victoria Garage (Skoda) service and maintain your car.

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by toot

2 hours ago, VRS245Grey said:

Hi, new here but I'd hoped to get the benefit of the forums collective wisdom. I've got a manual Octavia Vrs 245, 69 plate, <30000 miles, that I bought approved used last October from Specialist Cars Dundee. 

I took it for its routine service and the health check at Hawco Skoda Inverness flagged an "oil leak from engine between engine and gear box. relevant TPI2051464/1. Advise replacement of flywheel bolts and locking fluid. may require clutch and flywheel if contaminated with oil" at a princely cost of over £2500. I assumed this would be a warranty issue as it was approved used, apparently a known issue and I thought this must result from a manufacturing defect but Skoda refused this, on the grounds that as I'd taken out an "all-in" policy to cover servicing costs it was a preexisting fault.

I fully appreciate I missed the small print about having an approved used warranty and the all in warranty overlapping (a very costly oversight it seems) but given the cars provenance and age, I can't help but think this is not an issue I should be having to deal with. I've been in touch with skoda and the skoda warranty department but have had very dismissive responses, any thoughts whether I'm wrong to expect any help/good will at all from Skoda or whether I just have to suck up my costly mistake? 

Thoughts appreciated!

They're trying to run rings around you clearly and take you for a ride.  

 

If they agree the problem was pre-existing they're caught by the statutory warranty provisions under consumer rights act.

 

If it wasn't then one of the two warranty cover policies ought to cover it either by an override provision or both accepting a partial liability. I have never heard of an insurer saying because there is two policies that may cover it, then no cover applies. That make no sense.  

 

Perhaps the consumer right act is a clearer way to go, you'd have to prove the fault or the vulnerability was there from your purchase which would requie some indpendent engineering assessment.

 

what is the actual fault in the TPI I couldn't find anything hits coming up on that? Probably rear main seal?

 

Edit. found a russian TPI extract on 2051464/3 

 

Translated from russian.

 

Technical rationale

 

The cause of this leakage is a thread defect (manufacturing) in the crankshaft cover for fastening the flywheel. As a result, an oil leak occurs, despite the sealing of the fastening bolts (see Fig. 2).

An example in fig. 2 serves only as an aid in evaluating the establishment of an oil leak.
In this case, oil leakage is caused by the formation of threads in the crankshaft cover.
There is no leakage of the crankshaft cover itself (see Fig. 2, red oval)!

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by TheClient

For general information,   look at their prices. 

It was bad when AC were in Inverness, but why go to this bunch?

 

 

41 minutes ago, toot said:

For general information,   look at their prices. 

It was bad when AC were in Inverness, but why go to this bunch?

 

 

£2,500 seems like a lot to separate and remove the gearbox and replace the bolts with extra locking or sealing fluid. I'm not 100% sure if that quoted figure includes the replacement clutch and flywheel (just in case) but even if it does, it's an expensive clutch change without much in the way of extra work than would normally be done for a clutch and flywheel change anyway.  But agree, the primary issue is "who's problem is it" as the OP has asked. 

 

I do have a lingering question as to how genuine is Hawco is, or could they be speculatively raising this? Did you see the extent of the oil leak between the gearbox and engine.  They can't see in there without dismantling so they can't be 100% sure what it is yet, but understandably refer to a TPI if it appears to fit and point to it...

Thanks for the replies

Looking at the Consumer rights aspect and also chasing with Specialist Cars Dundee to see what they say.

Can't say I'll be rushing back to Hawco anytime soon!

 

The thing is if sold a 2nd Warranty when you have a valid warranty, was someone Mis-selling' if that means you have no Warranty Cover.

 

A question for the Warranty Providers, and the Seller, or their bosses.  Mis-selling of a financial product.

1 hour ago, TheClient said:

I have never heard of an insurer saying because there is two policies that may cover it, then no cover applies. That make no sense.

 

I have sadly, if you dig deep down in the small print of I would say most if not all policies they say that cover is void if the item/risk is covered by another insurance policy.

 

Nice work if you can get it 🙄 but immoral.

Which is perfectly OK, one is void / invalidated because another is current.  You have cover with one but not the other.

 

The other was unnecessary, possibly mis-sold, or just buyer beware and never read the small print, maybe never got the small print in print.

 

The beauty is that it is Skoda UK & 2 Scottish Motor Groups / Dealers and their full time jobs are cars sales and related servicing and customer services / financial services.

So when you talk to them or actually Skoda / VW UK, be sure it is Skoda or Dealership Employees and not some contractor. 

 

 

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by toot

The John Clark Motor Group thankfully is nothing like and no way involved with the Arnold Clark Motor Group.

 

Chalk and cheese.

 

http://www.john-clark.co.uk/about-us/meet-the-team/

 

 

http://linkedin.com/in/john-fallon-8379b368/?originalSubdomain=uk

http://linkedin.com/in/allan-smith-40553230/?Subdomain=uk

 

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by toot

Having a second opinion with John Clark in Aberdeen.

Warranty wise, does seem a bit of poor deal, part of the reason why I didn't query it too much on purchase as it said there wouldnt be a "no claims" period due to its past history, but this is something I'm raising with them .

 

@VRS245GreySorry but i do not understand what you mean.

 

But maybe neither did the person.

Skoda Approved used car and the Warranty is there in the T&C's.  Like Judge Judy says ' within the 4 corners of the page'.

 

Same goes with the 2nd Warrant / Insurance policy sold to you by whoever sold it to you.  The T&C,s is what matters and what you were shown. 

 

Used Car Warranty.

& All in Skoda Warranty. 

VWFS_11815379_SKODA_AUW_Booklet_0922E.pdf

Edited 18 August, 20232 yr by toot

2 hours ago, VRS245Grey said:

Having a second opinion with John Clark in Aberdeen.

Warranty wise, does seem a bit of poor deal, part of the reason why I didn't query it too much on purchase as it said there wouldnt be a "no claims" period due to its past history, but this is something I'm raising with them .

 

@VRS245GreyI'm more than a little concerned by your reference to 'past history' - but if it was sold as approved used, all terms included in that warranty should still apply.  

12 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

@VRS245GreyI'm more than a little concerned by your reference to 'past history' - but if it was sold as approved used, all terms included in that warranty should still apply.  

 

Oh nothing sinister there, by past history, I meant that it had been under Skoda warranty it’s entire life so the all in package explicitly stated I could make a claim from day one and didn’t have a 30 day no claim period that sometimes applies (apparently). Hence I didn’t expect any warranty claim issues!

 

 

@VRS245Grey

So 'Skoda' or the Claims Manager refused the 'All in Warranty' claim. 

 Is there something in writing that 'Hawco'  acting as your agent made a Warranty Claim under your Used Car Warranty and that was refused also?

 

Or were you told by Skoda or the Claims manager.

Hawco

2 hours ago, toot said:

@VRS245Grey

So 'Skoda' or the Claims Manager refused the 'All in Warranty' claim. 

 Is there something in writing that 'Hawco'  acting as your agent made a Warranty Claim under your Used Car Warranty and that was refused also?

 

Or were you told by Skoda or the Claims manager.

hawco put the claim in and it was refused by whoever that went to.  They’ve not done anything since, an email with refusal and that was it! 
 

I’m hoping specialist cars will look into to the approved used one when I take it in. 

This is a ridiculous situation to be caught in, and it is hardly the fault of the @VRS245Grey, who I assume thought he was taking a belt-and-braces approach to warranty cover, only to find that instead of stacking warranties, the two warranties actually undermine each other.

It's absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

If I go into a shop, I don't expect to be told "We don't accept cash if you have a credit card in your wallet.". Having two warranties should give a consumer choice, in no way should it be allowed to be used as an excuse for a warranty company to weasel out of their obligation. I understand the complexities, confusion and potential fraud that might arise if someone makes multiple warranty claims for a fault.

However mitigation against fraud should not render warranties ineffectual.

 

I wonder how far this weaselly legal rot has spread?

If you join the AA and RAC, might you phone the RAC up only to be told that membership of the AA invalidates your RAC cover?

 

I think @Gazis on the money with his reference to talking to trading standards.

As an additional suggestion, if you have legal cover on your car insurance (or home insurance), it might be worth checking if you can apply some legal leverage in your favour on this issue.

Edited 19 August, 20232 yr by EnterName

I think John Clark Motor Group will see the 'Simply Clever'' way to deal with this.   I have had great experiences as a customer and with mates working for them.

 

As it is it is Hawco that has to be questioned about how they dealt with the matter since the Car was Skoda Approved with a Warranty to claim against.

 

@VRS245Grey How or where did you buy the 'All in plan',  online or at a dealership and was there any inspection carried out as part of it?

 

What is the 'Full Main Dealer Service History',.  and any Recall or Warranty History, and has the car been serviced to the Manufacturers Guidelines, Recommendations or specification.

 

Has the Brake Fluid been changed, the VAQ diff serviced and anything else other than Oil & Inspection Services & Extended Scope done? 

17 minutes ago, toot said:

I think John Clark Motor Group will see the 'Simply Clever'' way to deal with this.   I have had great experiences as a customer and with mates working for them.

 

As it is it is Hawco that has to be questioned about how they dealt with the matter since the Car was Skoda Approved with a Warranty to claim against.

 

@VRS245Grey How or where did you buy the 'All in plan',  online or at a dealership and was there any inspection carried out as part of it?

 

What is the 'Full Main Dealer Service History',.  and any Recall or Warranty History, and has the car been serviced to the Manufacturers Guidelines, Recommendations or specification.

 

Has the Brake Fluid been changed, the VAQ diff serviced and anything else other than Oil & Inspection Services & Extended Scope done? 

I’m certainly hoping that’s the case.

 

All in was bought online, I asked hawco what options I had and they pointed me at the website but didn’t advise at all. No inspection , just a form online. I should have paid more attention to the small print but as I say I was lulled in to a false sense of security, I was more interested is rolling all the costs into one package than the warranty which I didn’t even consider I’d need! My previous vrs was essentially faultless til it got to 8 years old and then it was mainly wear and tear!

 

Serviced to manufacturers specs but not main dealer before it went back to specialist cars last summer and by me this summer. Vaq serviced and brake fluid changed, as far as I’m aware it’s not had any issues and is up to date with recommendations. I was a little weary that the non dealer servicing may have affected the warranty but verbally was told this wouldn’t be the case ahead of buying, should have got that in writing, but I think I’m too trusting!

They took in the car, they checked the Service History & they as in Skoda Specialist Cars Dundee then sold it as a Skoda Approved Car and put a Skoda Warranty on it.

Now they do this as a job, and the customers pay a premium buying Skoda, VW, SEAT or Audi Approved cars for peace of mind.

 

I try to remind them of that at every opportunity just to keep them on their toes. 

 

If customers want crap Customer Services they have AC, Parks, Vardy or a few others to go to.   

Or MOTORCHOICE (JC Select) part of John Clark Motor group and where they can maybe punt the questionable service history cars,

and if you have an issue find it hard to get hold of the salesperson you dealt with.

Edited 19 August, 20232 yr by toot

If it is "Skoda approved used", shouldnt any open TSBs against the car be applied before it could be sold with this status? 

Edited 19 August, 20232 yr by Gabbo

Sometimes actual Skoda Recall Actions outstanding are not done at dealerships.

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

 

A car might not get Serviced if not due and just the Workshop Safety Checks, or the car arrives from another dealer / area and missed because ticked off sometime a while ago. 

Spit & polish. (scratch) maybe a kerbside auto's touch up and off it goes.  Skoda Approved Used car.   Warranty given.

 

*Threads on Skoda Approved Cars and how pathetic some are and the excuses made in the General Automotive Chat section of BRISKODA.*

 

Yet,

You take a car in without the correct service history and Skoda / Dealers can be quick to say Warranty Voided. 

 

..................Buyer beware,  be aware.

This page is often overlooked.

 

A 'Multipoint check'  does not mean the car gets a service if not due within maybe a month.

Check cars finance status, insurance reported,  even Skoda Management cars in accidents might never have been reported to insurers.

The Recalls / TPI,s should be checked.  Things slip. 

 

Edited 19 August, 20232 yr by toot