Fabia vRS towbar?

[DGW]

So, it's all very well the insurer saying its ok to tow but an entirely different matter if you were actually caught short while towing...

That's about it. I wouldn't tow on the basis of what I now know.

[semtex]

was it this one m8

http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/FittingInstructions/SK11A.pdf

[squid]

Did You read any of the thread?

Ill spell it out for you..... The Fabia Vrs is not approved for towing..... if you look at your log book the fields where it should show you the unbraked towing weight etc etc are blank.

If you fit a tow bar to the fabia vrs and use it for towing you will not be covered by your insurance.

Thansk

John

Just checked my V5's for the Fabia and my wifes Vectra and both are blank! Does this mean I can't tow with that as well?

[cheezemonkhai]

Yep as they have no towing weight.

If the manufacturer offers a tow bar and specified a weight as it has had approval for this then you might be able to get the DVLA to update your docs.

[squid]

There is a tow bar from Vauxhall for this car so not sure why it isn't in the V5. New Vectra Detachable Tow Bar with 12N Electrics (5 Door Hatchback / Saloon SRi/GSi) - Vauxhall Accessories

[squid]

Just been to my dealer and they said they have not heard of any reason why the vRS cannot tow things and they have seen cars with a towbar and have customers who have done it. They said that Skoda have not type approved a towbar but they are available.

[greg123]

I would argue that without a train weight/towing weight listed, there is no limitation specified by the mfr.

EG, if they specified 'you must not tow, towing weight 0kg' that's one thing. But simply not testing the car, when others in the range have been tested, means they didn't issue guidance, not they didn't tow.

If you go by the weights of another with the same bodyshell or suspension options or near enough to that, I think you'd have a good case. Eg vehicle not overloaded, shell the same, brakes even better than the std version and not towing more than the standard version with nothing on the VIN plate to contradict what you are doing.

Witter and others do aftermarket towbars as well that are the most popular in the industry, I'm sure it doesn't have to be a factory Skoda job to be considered an approved design.

Greg.

[vindaloo]

You could argue that for a non-VRS, lowering the car and/or changing wheels/brakes/ARBs moves the car away from the tested towing config. Therefore there is no permissible towing or train weight.

J.

[turboshandy]

Hey,

I have recently purchased a skoda fabia vrs and need a tow bar to carry my trials bike every so often. Have been following your discussions over the towbar and woundered if you could send me the details of the towbar fitted and the cut made in the bumper to fit it.

Thanks

Jack

[DRJ]

I have recently purchased a skoda fabia vrs and need a tow bar to carry my trials bike every so often. Have been following your discussions over the towbar and woundered if you could send me the details of the towbar fitted and the cut made in the bumper to fit it.

Welcome to this forum.

Unfortunately I feel obliged to post to advise that what you are proposing may render your insurance invalid. Think carefully before proceeding.

[turboshandy]

it would only render it invalid when towing i think but with the distance i propose to travel, i am not likely to take any risks with it but thanks for the reply

[DRJ]

it would only render it invalid when towing i think but with the distance i propose to travel, i am not likely to take any risks with it but thanks for the reply

My understanding of the regulations is that the fitment of the towbar is the illegal bit not the use you put it to. I'd strongly recommend getting your insurance company to authorise the fitment.

[stevejwest]

Had one from day one (2004) on the Furby vRS we have - never had any problems with it - Brink.

Some excuse has been made from Skoda UK but they didnt bother to sort out the tow bar as didnt think anyone would want one on a vRS (so they said)

Glad you got it sorted!

[DRJ]

Remember you might get pulled over by the Police if you have a tow bar fitted to a Fabia vRS.

Tow blow - Sunday Sun

A ROW has broken out over a car tow bar fitted more than five years ago.

Fitting was arranged by the dealership where Mike Smith bought his Skoda Fabia vRS in 2004.

But he was recently pulled over by police and taken to a weighbridge, where he was told the car was not approved for towing.

...

He said: “They said the car was not type-approved for towing. They said I was within the spirit of the law if not the letter because the model below mine is approved.

“They decided not to prosecute, but I can’t use the car for towing anymore.

“As I see it, the garage was responsible for creating this situation and they are responsible for putting it right.”

Edited 8 June, 2009 by DRJ

[hewesy]

Something else to consider, as of April 2009 towbars will be part of the MOT test (being brought into line with the rest of the EU).

So the question is, if the car is not approved for towing, and has a tow bar, will it fail the MOT?

The guidance seems to read that type approval isn't checked, so maybe not. But in light of the above from DRJ you have to wonder...

Hewesy

[greg123]

Why would it need to be type approved? A classic car and a kit car can have custom tow bars, they are not type approved. Am I missing something, or is type approval just an ensurance that something is fit for purpose, but it's still possible to have something fit for purpose that isn't type approved? One can fit a VR6 engine in the car, and Lambo brakes, they sure are not type approved for a Fabia VRS nor is the shell approved for a much heavier engine. I just don't see how all this is okay, but a towbar isn't?

Greg.

[hewesy]

Looks like "Type Approved" is being used for two different purposes here Greg123.

1) Type approved for the car - i.e. that the manufacturer has had the car approved for towing (which Skoda haven't done for the Fabia vRS).

2) Type Approval for the towbar itself. This means that the manufacturer has tested and approved the towbar for that model. As you point out, not all towbar's are type approved, and reading the blurb for the new MOT checks for towbars it doesn't matter as long as the towbar is fit for purpose and in good condition. In fact when I informed my insurance after having my towbar fitted they didn't even ask make/type approved (which it is).

Hewesy

[greg123]

Agreed, as I understand it the type approval for towing for the car is so that a mfr can sell it *new* as approved for towing. However, this doesn't stop any old joe changing the engine, or fitting a towbar, or any other mods, it just means that the car, out of the box, is not approved for towing. Neither is a kit car, but if you want to go adapt it yourself and do it to a good standard (pass mot) no it won't have type approval, but it will be fit to tow with and afik legal.

Similarly, a custom exhaust has no type approval. You know if you buy a skoda one out the box, new, from the mfr, it will be type approved and thus meet all requirements (be secure, noise, cat if needed etc). But that doesn't stop tons of custom exhaust shops making perfectly legal and good non-type approved exhausts, eg every single custom stainless steel one. Which then pass mot & vosa checks fine.

I don't see lack of type approval as illegal unless there is some legislation covering more modern vehicles and type approval that I'm not aware of,

Greg.

Looks like "Type Approved" is being used for two different purposes here Greg123.

1) Type approved for the car - i.e. that the manufacturer has had the car approved for towing (which Skoda haven't done for the Fabia vRS).

2) Type Approval for the towbar itself. This means that the manufacturer has tested and approved the towbar for that model. As you point out, not all towbar's are type approved, and reading the blurb for the new MOT checks for towbars it doesn't matter as long as the towbar is fit for purpose and in good condition. In fact when I informed my insurance after having my towbar fitted they didn't even ask make/type approved (which it is).

Hewesy

[hewesy]

Hi Greg123,

You are right, in theory anyone can swap engines, brakes, fit towbars etc. However, as per DRJ's post from The Sun, just because you can doesn't make it legal to use on the public road.

A kit car is probably built on an existing chassis, which itself is probably approved for towing and thus can have a towbar fitted. The only difference would be how it fits in with the different body style.

I suppose the simple fact here is that the vRS is not approved for towing, so you take a major risk using the vehicle in that manner. Supposing a vRS towing 1000kg of caravan suddenly lost it's load at 60mph on the m-way. Even a safety system engaging the brakes is still going to leave a 'van sat on the tarmac with fast moving traffic around.

Then when it comes to the insurance getting involved, they may have covered it as a delcared mod, but if the Polis then state the car is not legal to tow, poff! no insurance anymore.

For me, a risk not worth taking.

Hewesy

[greg123]

Hi Greg123,

You are right, in theory anyone can swap engines, brakes, fit towbars etc. However, as per DRJ's post from The Sun, just because you can doesn't make it legal to use on the public road.

A kit car is probably built on an existing chassis, which itself is probably approved for towing and thus can have a towbar fitted. The only difference would be how it fits in with the different body style.

I suppose the simple fact here is that the vRS is not approved for towing, so you take a major risk using the vehicle in that manner. Supposing a vRS towing 1000kg of caravan suddenly lost it's load at 60mph on the m-way. Even a safety system engaging the brakes is still going to leave a 'van sat on the tarmac with fast moving traffic around.

Then when it comes to the insurance getting involved, they may have covered it as a delcared mod, but if the Polis then state the car is not legal to tow, poff! no insurance anymore.

For me, a risk not worth taking.

Hewesy

Can see your point about the risk/not wanting to do it. Re kit cars - no, not based on a chassis that is very rare. It's all or partially custom, right from the

[hewesy]

Fair enough, my experiance of kit cars are those based on other chasis - e.g. Ford Sierra/Escort etc. I'm sure a towbar could be made for anything, but it still has to then pass approval. I know a chap who had one custom made for his camper, I'll ask him on the process.

I imagine the case above may end up being a test case if it does go to court. Until it does, there will still be a grey area of the car not being approved/Police stopping it, but insurance companies potentially accepting the mod then not paying out when it is brought to their attention.

Hewesy

[Mad Dog]

Fair enough, my experiance of kit cars are those based on other chasis - e.g. Ford Sierra/Escort etc. I'm sure a towbar could be made for anything, but it still has to then pass approval. I know a chap who had one custom made for his camper, I'll ask him on the process.

I imagine the case above may end up being a test case if it does go to court. Until it does, there will still be a grey area of the car not being approved/Police stopping it, but insurance companies potentially accepting the mod then not paying out when it is brought to their attention.

Hewesy

Ford Sierra's and Escorts do not have a chassis. They are of semi-monocouqe construction

[CsVrs]

Just fyi this towbar fits the Fabia Vrs

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280436811036&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Can't be seen apart from when your physically under the car when detached.

Its only advertised as not fitting on the Vrs because of all the approved conflicts on the car.

Any towbar that is advertised as fitting the 'RS' will fit a Vrs.

Edited 25 January, 2011 by CsVrs

[KLM]

Can't be seen apart from when your physically under the car when detached.

Or when it has a trailer attached to it!

[CsVrs]

Or when it has a trailer attached to it!

Well yes, but thats more than obvious I would have thought.....