1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box

watkins4378 · 01-01-2008, 06:42

Hi,
I wondered if anyone had experience of modifying the 3 cylinder 1.4 tdi pd75 engine past remap or tuning box?
I am talking about larger pd150 injectors and turbo, adapting the exhaust manifold, front mounted intercooler as well as wheel, brake, exhaust/ egr and suspension improvements.
Looking for at least 150bhp and 260 lb ft torque!

Best wishes

Ian

sharkrider · 01-01-2008, 12:34

I don't think anyone on here has gone that far with the 1.4 tdi, but I'm sure its possible!

ScoobyChris · 01-01-2008, 12:58

Services are probably the people to talk to about it as if anyone's done one (or capable of doing one) it's them. It will probably cost a few thousand to get to 150bhp though so it might be cheaper to buy a PD100 and get it remapped?

Chris

watkins4378 · 01-01-2008, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkrider

I don't think anyone on here has gone that far with the 1.4 tdi, but I'm sure its possible!

Hi,
Thanks for the comment.
The only limitation I can see is getting a pf150 vnt 1749 turbo to fit the exhaust manifold.
I thought the standard 1.9 tdi 4 branch manifold could be adjusted / adapted as it seems to be the right shape but has an additional branch.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Best wishes

Ian

cheezemonkhai · 01-01-2008, 15:41

You could probably buy a PD130 from scrap car for much less than it would cost to do this and then just have that mapped etc.

watkins4378 · 01-01-2008, 23:31

Hi ,
The 1.9 tdi engine 130/ 150 bhp variants is far to heavy for a seat arosa.
The 1.4 engine has the same bore and stroke but 3 cylinders.
The budget is around 5- 6 k with 2.5 - 3k for the car and the rest modifying engine, wheels, brakes, suspension

Ian

skudmissile · 02-01-2008, 15:12

Theres a guy in germany with a polo running about 130bhp, thats with a fmic and hybrid turbo. the injectors are the same as the pd130 anyhow.

The turbo off the 90bhp A2 1.4 tdi is a good turbo and with just a remap should see you into the 110-120bhp region.

Tbh I wouldnt bother, the 1.4 is a very weak engine in my opinion, i went through 3 turbos and a bottem end trying to the most out of my polo. In the end i gave up and bought a polo gt pd130.

watkins4378 · 03-01-2008, 06:00

Hi, Iam looking for 150 bhp +

Could you tell me a little about how you tuned your car. Interested in how you went through turbos and bottom ends - did you tune it yourself or use a company?

Tbh I wouldnt bother, the 1.4 is a very weak engine in my opinion, i went through 3 turbos and a bottem end trying to the most out of my polo. In the end i gave up and bought a polo gt pd130.[/quote]

**VRStu** · 03-01-2008, 06:29

I think it's a bit of a tall order myself.

the 1.4 is 70 or 80 HP and you are effectively wanting to double that.

watkins4378 · 03-01-2008, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRStu

I think it's a bit of a tall order myself.

the 1.4 is 70 or 80 HP and you are effectively wanting to double that.

Hi Stu,

I understand your thought but allard regulary increase power by this margin. For example, pd150 to pd260 ( see here - phase 4). It's basically very similar engine but with 3 cylinders, smaller injectors, wastegate turbo and smic. If you upgrade these I don't see why conservatively
if you take a phase 3 allard 225 bhp divide by 4 and multiply by 3 giving 169 bhp that 150 bhp isn't possible.

Best wishes

Ian

**VRStu** · 03-01-2008, 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by watkins4378

if you take a phase 3 allard 225 bhp divide by 4 and multiply by 3 giving 169 bhp that 150 bhp isn't possible.

Engine tuning isn't about numbers on a fag packet, it's about the potential of the engine and parts fitted.

I also fail to see where a 3 cylinder 1.4 TDi can be almost the same as a 4 cylinder TDi - most PD engines are similar in the respect that they utilise the PD technology but then in your eyes that would make a V6 TDi common rail quite similar to a 4 cylinder TDi common rail of course except one or two minor things like a couple of cylinders and a slightly different head.

Sorry mate I don't see your logic there.

I'm not saying it can't be done but I am saying it's a very tall order, and if you could manage it, quite costly in which case you'd have to question why.

Give allards a call, I'm sure they'll be willing to advise you on what is possible.

ScoobyChris · 03-01-2008, 09:54

Does the 1.4 have an ally block whereas the 1.9 is cast iron? That might limit the amount of tuning potential.

Chris

watkins4378 · 03-01-2008, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoobyChris

Does the 1.4 have an ally block whereas the 1.9 is cast iron? That might limit the amount of tuning potential.

Chris

Good point, tbh I don't know does anyone else?
Re power calculation - yes it was a bit heath robinson.
Turbo is not vnt as has wastegate

**VRStu** · 03-01-2008, 12:12

So you may then need to consider another ECU as well because you'd need control for the VNT etc.

watkins4378 · 03-01-2008, 13:12

Stu, I might i will talk to allards asap

**VRStu** · 03-01-2008, 13:39

Don't get me wrong, if it is something you really want to do and think it's worth it then go for it.

I would urge you to have a read of a few of Jasons posts (devonutopia) you'll get a feel for just how much money he has spent in the quest for big power.

skudmissile · 03-01-2008, 19:03

the 1422cc engine is the same block as the 1896cc engine but with a cylinder missing. ie 1422cc/3 is the same as 1896cc/4 = 474cc per cylinder. it runs the same con rods and pistons as the pd100.

The block on the 1.4 is cast, the turbo is a VNT turbo, its a kkk on a different manifold.

the turbos are rubbish, they just simply arnt designed to run at anymore boost than standard.

then theres the clutch, its only tiny and mine was slipping after a few thousand miles running at about 100bhp and 240lbft

so yes big power is achivable but at a cost of swapping pistons rods injectors and turbo then the clutch........ ie alot of money.

I ruined my car trying to get more power out of it in, the vrs on the other hand has run at 170bhp and 290lbft for the last 30k with the only problem being the clutch destroying itself.

_____
john

watkins4378 · 04-01-2008, 00:21

Skud,
Firstly, Skud thanks for your post!
Yes, I intend to spend the money and swap internals, add fmic, turbo, clutcg, poss lsd, brakes, suspension etc.
In terms of the turbo there has been much debate on various forums whether it runs a vnt or wastegate type.
I have the part no's for an arosa:

AROSA TDI 2002 75 1.4/3 D GT1544S 733783-0004 045 253 019D
AROSA TDI 2003 75 1.4/3 D GT1544S 733783-0007 045 253 019D

this shows it's not a vnt and doesn't have n75 valve? Anyway, the big issue is how to upgrade the turbo and inbuilt exhaust manifold. Does a custom manifold need to be fabricated or can a 1.9 tdi 4 branch manifold be adapted?

My reason for 1.4 tdi is having a budget of around 6K I wanted something a little special. I could buy a fabia vrs and have it remapped for that money to produced 160-170 bhp but would be uncomfortable without fmic. Many people have taken this route.
I love the offbeat 3 cylinder engine.

Ian

skudmissile · 04-01-2008, 00:51

I like the off beat sound too, like a v6

The garret gt1544s is a vnt turbo, ( i think it comes from the same family as the gt1749 from the pd130 and pd150 golf)

the arosa engine must be different to the 2005 polo 1400tdi i had as mine had a kkk turbo.

Does the arosa not have a black n75 valve block on the off side strut top?

Have a word with tubro dynamics, maybe they could do something with the garret you have, this would erradicate the need for a custom manifold.

No point going for too big a turbo, as the 1.4 wont produce enough exhaust gas to even spool it.

I would go for pd130 injectors, best bit you only need 3

decat,

get rid of the egr valve with an allard pipe

fmic

Hybrid based on your standard turbo

good remap

and possibly a new clutch. SMF if any companys make one for it.

That should see you into the 130bhp region. Which tbh is more than enough for such a light car.

My mate runs a lupo sport 16v on throttle bodies and it keeps up with my vrs quite happily

watkins4378 · 04-01-2008, 12:47

Hi Skud, could you take at a link here from lupo/ arosa forum especially post made by 'teflon'. There has been lots of debate on this subject

Thks

ScoobyChris · 04-01-2008, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by watkins4378

Hi Skud, could you take at a link here from lupo/ arosa forum especially post made by 'teflon'. There has been lots of debate on this subject

Teflon is TeflonTom on here, if you didn't know

Chris

watkins4378 · 05-01-2008, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by skudmissile

I like the off beat sound too, like a v6

Does the arosa not have a black n75 valve block on the off side strut top?

No point going for too big a turbo, as the 1.4 wont produce enough exhaust gas to even spool it.

No N75 wastegate
Yes maybe, make hybrid from gt1544s - 17 44 perhaps
I like the factor it's a small car, relatively light, kinda go kart'ish, off beat engine, and it would be a (kick ****) sleeper. Not many people have gone soo far with the 1.4 tdi.
It's a but like the chapman/ ltuse concept - less is more!

ian

watkins4378 · 05-01-2008, 07:41

Meant so say chapman/ lotus philosophy - less is more

watkins4378 · 22-01-2008, 22:39

Teflon Tom did u get the message I sent you on cupra forum?

TeflonTom · 23-01-2008, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by watkins4378

Hi Skud, could you take at a link here from lupo/ arosa forum especially post made by 'teflon'. There has been lots of debate on this subject

Thks

hmm, that's me... i'll see if i can dig up some photos of the engine before and after it blew up

my advice is dont bother unless you have an endless supply of spare engines and money

01-01-2008, 06:42	#1
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Hi, I wondered if anyone had experience of modifying the 3 cylinder 1.4 tdi pd75 engine past remap or tuning box? I am talking about larger pd150 injectors and turbo, adapting the exhaust manifold, front mounted intercooler as well as wheel, brake, exhaust/ egr and suspension improvements. Looking for at least 150bhp and 260 lb ft torque! Best wishes Ian

01-01-2008, 12:34	#2
sharkrider rider of sharks Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cumbria Posts: 3,888 Members Car: Fabia vRS Thanks: 245 Thanked 108 Times in 95 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box I don't think anyone on here has gone that far with the 1.4 tdi, but I'm sure its possible! __________________ Fiat Grande Punto Sporting (158 bhp 314 lbs/ft) in Red.... Furby vRS , black magic,passenger airbag de-activation switch, (now gone, but not forgotten!)

01-01-2008, 12:58	#3
ScoobyChris Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Andover Posts: 18,198 Members Car: Fiat Panda Thanks: 15 Thanked 336 Times in 290 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Services are probably the people to talk to about it as if anyone's done one (or capable of doing one) it's them. It will probably cost a few thousand to get to 150bhp though so it might be cheaper to buy a PD100 and get it remapped? Chris __________________ Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

01-01-2008, 15:41	#5
cheezemonkhai Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,664 Members Car: Thanks: 116 Thanked 526 Times in 487 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box You could probably buy a PD130 from scrap car for much less than it would cost to do this and then just have that mapped etc. __________________ Cars make CO2 and trees absorb CO2. By driving your car you're feeding a tree and helping the environment.

01-01-2008, 23:31	#6
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Hi , The 1.9 tdi engine 130/ 150 bhp variants is far to heavy for a seat arosa. The 1.4 engine has the same bore and stroke but 3 cylinders. The budget is around 5- 6 k with 2.5 - 3k for the car and the rest modifying engine, wheels, brakes, suspension Ian

02-01-2008, 15:12	#7
skudmissile Moving Stables Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,185 Members Car: Thanks: 426 Thanked 183 Times in 164 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Theres a guy in germany with a polo running about 130bhp, thats with a fmic and hybrid turbo. the injectors are the same as the pd130 anyhow. The turbo off the 90bhp A2 1.4 tdi is a good turbo and with just a remap should see you into the 110-120bhp region. Tbh I wouldnt bother, the 1.4 is a very weak engine in my opinion, i went through 3 turbos and a bottem end trying to the most out of my polo. In the end i gave up and bought a polo gt pd130. __________________ Run out of CASH

03-01-2008, 06:00	#8
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Hi, Iam looking for 150 bhp + Could you tell me a little about how you tuned your car. Interested in how you went through turbos and bottom ends - did you tune it yourself or use a company? Tbh I wouldnt bother, the 1.4 is a very weak engine in my opinion, i went through 3 turbos and a bottem end trying to the most out of my polo. In the end i gave up and bought a polo gt pd130.[/quote]

03-01-2008, 06:29	#9
VRStu Txt Spk Police Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,856 Members Car: Audi S3 Thanks: 145 Thanked 999 Times in 895 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box I think it's a bit of a tall order myself. the 1.4 is 70 or 80 HP and you are effectively wanting to double that. __________________ Stu Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2008 Audi S3 - Ibis White, Black Optics Pack, Privacy Glass, Auto Bi Xenon Headlights, Rain Sensing Wipers, Bose Sound System, Ipod Prep, GSM Phone Prep, Flat Bottom Multi Function Steering Wheel, Electric Folding Mirrors, Acoustic Parking, Cruise Control, Interior Light Pack, Non Smokers Pack. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - A Patio

03-01-2008, 09:54	#12
ScoobyChris Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Andover Posts: 18,198 Members Car: Fiat Panda Thanks: 15 Thanked 336 Times in 290 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Does the 1.4 have an ally block whereas the 1.9 is cast iron? That might limit the amount of tuning potential. Chris __________________ Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

03-01-2008, 12:12	#14
VRStu Txt Spk Police Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,856 Members Car: Audi S3 Thanks: 145 Thanked 999 Times in 895 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box So you may then need to consider another ECU as well because you'd need control for the VNT etc. __________________ Stu Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2008 Audi S3 - Ibis White, Black Optics Pack, Privacy Glass, Auto Bi Xenon Headlights, Rain Sensing Wipers, Bose Sound System, Ipod Prep, GSM Phone Prep, Flat Bottom Multi Function Steering Wheel, Electric Folding Mirrors, Acoustic Parking, Cruise Control, Interior Light Pack, Non Smokers Pack. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - A Patio

03-01-2008, 13:12	#15
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Stu, I might i will talk to allards asap

03-01-2008, 13:39	#16
VRStu Txt Spk Police Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,856 Members Car: Audi S3 Thanks: 145 Thanked 999 Times in 895 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Don't get me wrong, if it is something you really want to do and think it's worth it then go for it. I would urge you to have a read of a few of Jasons posts (devonutopia) you'll get a feel for just how much money he has spent in the quest for big power. __________________ Stu Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2008 Audi S3 - Ibis White, Black Optics Pack, Privacy Glass, Auto Bi Xenon Headlights, Rain Sensing Wipers, Bose Sound System, Ipod Prep, GSM Phone Prep, Flat Bottom Multi Function Steering Wheel, Electric Folding Mirrors, Acoustic Parking, Cruise Control, Interior Light Pack, Non Smokers Pack. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - A Patio

03-01-2008, 19:03	#17
skudmissile Moving Stables Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,185 Members Car: Thanks: 426 Thanked 183 Times in 164 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box the 1422cc engine is the same block as the 1896cc engine but with a cylinder missing. ie 1422cc/3 is the same as 1896cc/4 = 474cc per cylinder. it runs the same con rods and pistons as the pd100. The block on the 1.4 is cast, the turbo is a VNT turbo, its a kkk on a different manifold. the turbos are rubbish, they just simply arnt designed to run at anymore boost than standard. then theres the clutch, its only tiny and mine was slipping after a few thousand miles running at about 100bhp and 240lbft so yes big power is achivable but at a cost of swapping pistons rods injectors and turbo then the clutch........ ie alot of money. I ruined my car trying to get more power out of it in, the vrs on the other hand has run at 170bhp and 290lbft for the last 30k with the only problem being the clutch destroying itself. _____ john __________________ Run out of CASH

04-01-2008, 00:21	#18
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Skud, Firstly, Skud thanks for your post! Yes, I intend to spend the money and swap internals, add fmic, turbo, clutcg, poss lsd, brakes, suspension etc. In terms of the turbo there has been much debate on various forums whether it runs a vnt or wastegate type. I have the part no's for an arosa: AROSA TDI 2002 75 1.4/3 D GT1544S 733783-0004 045 253 019D AROSA TDI 2003 75 1.4/3 D GT1544S 733783-0007 045 253 019D this shows it's not a vnt and doesn't have n75 valve? Anyway, the big issue is how to upgrade the turbo and inbuilt exhaust manifold. Does a custom manifold need to be fabricated or can a 1.9 tdi 4 branch manifold be adapted? My reason for 1.4 tdi is having a budget of around 6K I wanted something a little special. I could buy a fabia vrs and have it remapped for that money to produced 160-170 bhp but would be uncomfortable without fmic. Many people have taken this route. I love the offbeat 3 cylinder engine. Ian Last edited by DGW; 01-02-2008 at 15:31. Reason: Superfluous quote deleted for clarity.

04-01-2008, 00:51	#19
skudmissile Moving Stables Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,185 Members Car: Thanks: 426 Thanked 183 Times in 164 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box I like the off beat sound too, like a v6 The garret gt1544s is a vnt turbo, ( i think it comes from the same family as the gt1749 from the pd130 and pd150 golf) the arosa engine must be different to the 2005 polo 1400tdi i had as mine had a kkk turbo. Does the arosa not have a black n75 valve block on the off side strut top? Have a word with tubro dynamics, maybe they could do something with the garret you have, this would erradicate the need for a custom manifold. No point going for too big a turbo, as the 1.4 wont produce enough exhaust gas to even spool it. I would go for pd130 injectors, best bit you only need 3 decat, get rid of the egr valve with an allard pipe fmic Hybrid based on your standard turbo good remap and possibly a new clutch. SMF if any companys make one for it. That should see you into the 130bhp region. Which tbh is more than enough for such a light car. My mate runs a lupo sport 16v on throttle bodies and it keeps up with my vrs quite happily __________________ Run out of CASH Last edited by DGW; 01-02-2008 at 15:32. Reason: Superfluous quote deleted for clarity.

04-01-2008, 12:47	#20
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Hi Skud, could you take at a link here from lupo/ arosa forum especially post made by 'teflon'. There has been lots of debate on this subject Thks

05-01-2008, 07:41	#23
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Meant so say chapman/ lotus philosophy - less is more

22-01-2008, 22:39	#24
watkins4378 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 22 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1.4 tdi tuning past phase 1 remap/ tuning box Teflon Tom did u get the message I sent you on cupra forum?

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