Brake Upgrades

doer1 · 28-11-2004, 00:56

I know there has been a lot written about how crap the Furby brakes are. The upgrade options I understand are in order of costs:

1) Upgrade pads
2) Upgrade to larger disks and octy callipers
3) Go for a 4 pot full upgrade

I think 2 and 3 need 17" wheels

I was wondering what percentage increase each option gives you and the costs. I'm starting to think they need an upgrade I do love very good brakes.

Thanks
Graham

Lummox · 28-11-2004, 01:10

Only 3 needs bigger wheels, and depends on diameter of discs really.

Option 2 is your best bet, fits under std wheels and look almost factory. Find a set second hand and your laughing. I have fitted quite a few sets to the Fabia (did Walkie's today) so feel free to PM me for info if you cant find it on the site.

Budget around £400 tops I reckon to get a second hand set, paint them up and then new pads and discs, also I usually change the brake fluid for Super DOT 4 or DOT 5.1.

Custom painting Service

Almost factory..lol.

doer1 · 28-11-2004, 01:21

cool Ross What type of increase in braking 20-30%???
I presume the pedal feels the same you just scrub the speed off quicker. I'm not sure if I like the soft pedal feel.

P.S I presume you have to know which year octy so you can chnage the pads?

Lummox · 28-11-2004, 01:26

Depends alot on what pads you use. John said on his the pedal travel has increased a little but brakes bits ALOT harder and give alot more feedback. Xavier has said much the same.

On Jims that I did today his pedal felt quite firm and even though he's bedding them in the potential is there for sure. He chose Green Stuff pads and EBC Turbo groove discs front and rear for his and DOT 5.1 Fluid, felt very good and looked superb.

Skoda should have fitted 312mm brakes std, end of.

doer1 · 28-11-2004, 01:27

Thanks Ross... Looks like a new year project

Lummox · 28-11-2004, 01:27

And 312mm brakes be it Audi S3, Audi TT, Leon Cupra, 4 motion Golf, or Octavia vRS all use the same pads.

walkie · 28-11-2004, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by doer1

Thanks Ross... Looks like a new year project

Hello mate, see your looking at the 312mm conversion, just give you my opinion. The travel in the pedal is the same, but you dont need to push down as much as it bites within about an inch, it is very progressive which is good, and if you hammer the pedal it is amazing, feels a lot safer and you can stop dead within yards of rounderbouts, junctions etc

heres a piccie, ill post some better ones in the day light

any more info you want, part no's of disks etc feel free to ask

fab16v · 29-11-2004, 00:28

Think I'll be dooing something with the brakes in the new year. Pads front and rear are starting to get a bit on the low side.

boyced · 29-11-2004, 09:07

what DOT is the standard stuff, I thought it was all DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 these days?

Would it be worth getting some bradied hoses, had them on the clio and they made alot of difference.

**tfboy** · 29-11-2004, 12:33

I *think* the standard stuff is dot4. Super dot 4 is better, as is dot 5.1.
However, dot 5.1 isn't compatible with dot 4, so unless you do a complete brake purge, you can only upgrade to super dot 4.

I haven't had any problems with mine, and even with my fairly consistent stamping yesterday, I didn't experience any brake fade or excessive pedal travel.

Colin (Neo_vr) said he did manage to cook his though and he has the same setup as me - ds2500 pads on oem 312mm front discs with super dot 4 fluids.

spinndrift · 29-11-2004, 12:40

I have some custom made pads arriving this weekend to be put on at 20K service.

***Neo_VR*** · 29-11-2004, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfboy

Colin (Neo_vr) said he did manage to cook his though and he has the same setup as me - ds2500 pads on oem 312mm front discs with super dot 4 fluids.

True.... altho i was lapping you every 10 laps

so i may have been a tiny bit more aggressive on brake usage... and i didnt spin my car either

**TaviaRS** · 29-11-2004, 13:10

Colin, was yours the one breaking very early for all the corners? MF*****?

Me I'll just settle for my standard(ish) brakes, seem to be more than adequate for my sedate style of driving

Re the original question, uprate the pads to DS2500 and put some Super DOT4 fluid in. Unless you are a maniac, you shouldn't fade them. More than adequate brakes for everyday use and the occassional trackday, in my very humble opinion

***Neo_VR*** · 29-11-2004, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaviaRS

Colin, was yours the one breaking very early for all the corners? MF*****?

Me I'll just settle for my standard(ish) brakes, seem to be more than adequate for my sedate style of driving

Re the original question, uprate the pads to DS2500 and put some Super DOT4 fluid in. Unless you are a maniac, you shouldn't fade them. More than adequate brakes for everyday use and the occassional trackday, in my very humble opinion

nope... im a MA reg

tho i was braking relatively early for the hairpin later in the day as me pedal goes almost to the floor now (and this is WITH super dot 4 fluid + ds2500)

does that make me a mainiac?

**TaviaRS** · 29-11-2004, 13:28

Nope, it makes you a girl

<no offence to Pink Lady or Cheryl>

I knew I kept seeing a Manc area registered car, couldn't remember if it was MF or MA.

***Neo_VR*** · 29-11-2004, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaviaRS

Nope, it makes you a girl

<no offence to Pink Lady or Cheryl>

I knew I kept seeing a Manc area registered car, couldn't remember if it was MF or MA.

lend me your slicks next time then

I really enjoyed myself.. apart from the brake problem.. and the naff tyres

***ncarring*** · 29-11-2004, 13:40

My brakes have gone very soft today since yesterday's activities. Not sure why, cos the stopping power is still there, just takes more pedal travel and effort to produce it. Any ideas, experts?

***Neo_VR*** · 29-11-2004, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncarring

My brakes have gone very soft today since yesterday's activities. Not sure why, cos the stopping power is still there, just takes more pedal travel and effort to produce it. Any ideas, experts?

Boiled fluid... same as my problem

***ncarring*** · 29-11-2004, 13:58

So is it permanently damaged by the boiling then? Strange as it's Super Response and less than 6 months old - can't have much water in it yet, surely?

Still - easy enough to replace, if that's all it is ...

Steve vRS · 29-11-2004, 13:59

Unless you can't lock up your wheels with the standard set up, uprated discs and pads will not improve your stopping distances, just reduce fade. Tyres are the limiting factor.

Steve

***ncarring*** · 29-11-2004, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve vRS

Unless you can't lock up your wheels with the standard set up, uprated discs and pads will not improve your stopping distances, just reduce fade. Tyres are the limiting factor.

Steve

Interestingly my brakes cause less lockups since the upgrade (pads and fluid only) but feel much more progressive and reassuring.

***ColinD*** · 29-11-2004, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve vRS

Unless you can't lock up your wheels with the standard set up, uprated discs and pads will not improve your stopping distances, just reduce fade. Tyres are the limiting factor.

Steve

Perhaps so and maybe it's a placebo effect but I feel the car stops quicker on drilled&grooved + 2500's all round than the oem setup. This in my mind is the pad that makes the difference, the underlying discs and fluid do not effect this distance or speed of braking.

The fluid and discs however effect how much you can do before getting a fade in braking response. So couple it all togehter and you can quite happily go about heavy hard braking (say on a tackday or hard A road) for a great period of time where as a OEM setup will boil and fade after 4 or 5 laps, I may get 15-20 before noticing anything vaguely thought of as fade.

But yes unless your after stopping quickly; which is a worry as much as it is a benefit on the open road, pads and fluid should suffice then work up as needs dictate.

If had to choose one mod to my car and only one; it would be the brakes.

The major negative is the guy behind on the open road, many who follow me I feel in the standing on the anchors scenario, would just hit me and I know I would hit some other braking setups which in turn means I'm now leaving a far larger gap than ever where this tailgater situation arises.

***Neo_VR*** · 29-11-2004, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncarring

So is it permanently damaged by the boiling then? Strange as it's Super Response and less than 6 months old - can't have much water in it yet, surely?

Still - easy enough to replace, if that's all it is ...

When fluid boils, it produces gas.. and gas, as you know is compressable alot more than fluid.

same theory with the water retention.. over time, the fluid will absorb water which lowers the boiling point. so its easier to get airbubbles in the brakelines.

ds2500 pads do run MUCH hotter than oem ones, and the vag 288/312 caliper isnt very well designed for heat transfer.

***ncarring*** · 29-11-2004, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_VR

When fluid boils, it produces gas.. and gas, as you know is compressable alot more than fluid.

same theory with the water retention.. over time, the fluid will absorb water which lowers the boiling point. so its easier to get airbubbles in the brakelines.

ds2500 pads do run MUCH hotter than oem ones, and the vag 288/312 caliper isnt very well designed for heat transfer.

Yes but my points were:

1. Is the fluid permanantly damaged? If it's boiling and producing vapour, when it cools that vapour should be re-absorbed, so by today it should be back to normal, unless it's undergone some kind of molecular change.

2. The fluid is quite new so there shouldn't be much water in it.

Not sure how boiling water leads to air bubbles?

Anyway - first step will be to change the fluid. Thanks

faboka vrs · 29-11-2004, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaviaRS

Nope, it makes you a girl

<no offence to Pink Lady or Cheryl>

I knew I kept seeing a Manc area registered car, couldn't remember if it was MF or MA.

Not BX..... then

But I will admit I wasn't trying hard enough with the brakes.

I'm well impressed to how the 312mm (fitted by Ross

) stood upto the day. Not one hint of fade. Remeber the first session at Brunters last year, brakes lasted about 4 laps

28-11-2004, 00:56	#1
doer1 Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chester Posts: 686 Members Car: Fabia VRS-- Black Magic -- Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Brake Upgrades I know there has been a lot written about how crap the Furby brakes are. The upgrade options I understand are in order of costs: 1) Upgrade pads 2) Upgrade to larger disks and octy callipers 3) Go for a 4 pot full upgrade I think 2 and 3 need 17" wheels I was wondering what percentage increase each option gives you and the costs. I'm starting to think they need an upgrade I do love very good brakes. Thanks Graham __________________ Black Fab-tastic VRS

28-11-2004, 01:10	#2
Lummox Cupra Bush King Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 22,497 Members Car: Mk2 Golf GTi 16v and building a 20VT MK2. Images: 2 Thanks: 22 Thanked 760 Times in 638 Posts	Only 3 needs bigger wheels, and depends on diameter of discs really. Option 2 is your best bet, fits under std wheels and look almost factory. Find a set second hand and your laughing. I have fitted quite a few sets to the Fabia (did Walkie's today) so feel free to PM me for info if you cant find it on the site. Budget around £400 tops I reckon to get a second hand set, paint them up and then new pads and discs, also I usually change the brake fluid for Super DOT 4 or DOT 5.1. Custom painting Service Almost factory..lol. __________________ www.unit18.co.uk Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

28-11-2004, 01:21	#3
doer1 Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chester Posts: 686 Members Car: Fabia VRS-- Black Magic -- Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	cool Ross What type of increase in braking 20-30%??? I presume the pedal feels the same you just scrub the speed off quicker. I'm not sure if I like the soft pedal feel. P.S I presume you have to know which year octy so you can chnage the pads? __________________ Black Fab-tastic VRS Last edited by doer1; 28-11-2004 at 01:23.

28-11-2004, 01:26	#4
Lummox Cupra Bush King Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 22,497 Members Car: Mk2 Golf GTi 16v and building a 20VT MK2. Images: 2 Thanks: 22 Thanked 760 Times in 638 Posts	Depends alot on what pads you use. John said on his the pedal travel has increased a little but brakes bits ALOT harder and give alot more feedback. Xavier has said much the same. On Jims that I did today his pedal felt quite firm and even though he's bedding them in the potential is there for sure. He chose Green Stuff pads and EBC Turbo groove discs front and rear for his and DOT 5.1 Fluid, felt very good and looked superb. Skoda should have fitted 312mm brakes std, end of. __________________ www.unit18.co.uk Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

28-11-2004, 01:27	#5
doer1 Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chester Posts: 686 Members Car: Fabia VRS-- Black Magic -- Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Ross... Looks like a new year project __________________ Black Fab-tastic VRS

29-11-2004, 00:28	#8
fab16v Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somewhere in Herts Posts: 3,105 Members Car: Hyundai Coupe V6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Think I'll be dooing something with the brakes in the new year. Pads front and rear are starting to get a bit on the low side. __________________ Graeme Ex Skoda owner twice over.

29-11-2004, 09:07	#9
boyced fully boyced. Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,919 Members Car: Octavia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	what DOT is the standard stuff, I thought it was all DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 these days? Would it be worth getting some bradied hoses, had them on the clio and they made alot of difference. __________________

29-11-2004, 12:33	#10
tfboy C+ à Paris! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tilehurst, Berkshire Posts: 6,326 Members Car: "Fake" Black Magic vRS Thanks: 21 Thanked 77 Times in 67 Posts	I think the standard stuff is dot4. Super dot 4 is better, as is dot 5.1. However, dot 5.1 isn't compatible with dot 4, so unless you do a complete brake purge, you can only upgrade to super dot 4. I haven't had any problems with mine, and even with my fairly consistent stamping yesterday, I didn't experience any brake fade or excessive pedal travel. Colin (Neo_vr) said he did manage to cook his though and he has the same setup as me - ds2500 pads on oem 312mm front discs with super dot 4 fluids. __________________ Xavier

29-11-2004, 12:40	#11
spinndrift Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Woking/Bolton Le Sands Posts: 6,643 Members Car: Roomster Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	I have some custom made pads arriving this weekend to be put on at 20K service. __________________ Rev. Andy The Rallying Reverend www.miniroadrunnerrallying.co.uk Engine data aquisition is fun

29-11-2004, 13:10	#13
TaviaRS Dinosaur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North of the Watford Gap Posts: 14,942 Members Car: Merc E class & SLK Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 38 Posts	Colin, was yours the one breaking very early for all the corners? MF***? Me I'll just settle for my standard(ish) brakes, seem to be more than adequate for my sedate style of driving Re the original question, uprate the pads to DS2500 and put some Super DOT4 fluid in. Unless you are a maniac, you shouldn't fade them. More than adequate brakes for everyday use and the occassional trackday, in my very humble opinion __________________ A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast. Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays**

29-11-2004, 13:28	#15
TaviaRS Dinosaur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North of the Watford Gap Posts: 14,942 Members Car: Merc E class & SLK Thanks: 19 Thanked 42 Times in 38 Posts	Nope, it makes you a girl <no offence to Pink Lady or Cheryl> I knew I kept seeing a Manc area registered car, couldn't remember if it was MF or MA. __________________ A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast. Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays

29-11-2004, 13:40	#17
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,965 Members Car: 1983 Porsche 928S / 1972 MGB GT Thanks: 17 Thanked 96 Times in 79 Posts	My brakes have gone very soft today since yesterday's activities. Not sure why, cos the stopping power is still there, just takes more pedal travel and effort to produce it. Any ideas, experts? __________________ Nick North Wiltshire RoADAR

29-11-2004, 13:58	#19
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,965 Members Car: 1983 Porsche 928S / 1972 MGB GT Thanks: 17 Thanked 96 Times in 79 Posts	So is it permanently damaged by the boiling then? Strange as it's Super Response and less than 6 months old - can't have much water in it yet, surely? Still - easy enough to replace, if that's all it is ... __________________ Nick North Wiltshire RoADAR

29-11-2004, 13:59	#20
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,181 Members Car: Tavia vRS TDi Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Unless you can't lock up your wheels with the standard set up, uprated discs and pads will not improve your stopping distances, just reduce fade. Tyres are the limiting factor. Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

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