Hard Starting Problem With 1.8t

Turbo_Boss · 14-07-2003, 01:22

I've been having these issues for a while now with my
2002 Skoda Octavia L&K 1.8T AGU code engine.

Scenario: The car will crank, start/turn over for about 1-2 seconds, then it will just vibrates/stall/ and die. Inmediatelly I try to start it again and the engine start without any problem.
It happends every day, the first start of the day, then its start ok for the rest of the day until the next day after sitting overnight.

Needless to say that at the VAG service NOTHING came up with the computer and there were no error readings.

The Skoda manager has a 1.8T and has the same problem and they cant find a solution and toll me it has the same problem with anothers 1.8T

A recommendation by the manager is to insert the key, wait 5 to10 seconds for the lights in the dash to go off, then start the engine. I have found out that I can get a clean start up with this procedure.

Can you belive this! Is look like I am runing a diesel car and have to wait for the heater!

I was readind on Vortex forum that some people has experience similar starting problem and they have change the BLACK temperature coolant sensor for a GREEN one.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=858782

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=872924

I will wait for my next service to talk with the dealer to make a test changing this sensor.

What you think about this? Have any of you have encounter similar problem?

Big K, What color are the colant sensor on the 1.8T Octavias there? Do you have and idea or recomendation?

Isaac

big k · 16-07-2003, 20:23

hmm good one can't say i've come across this one but maybee a temp sensor change is the first step colours change often but i think the one's over here are black. do u get any lights flashing up (maybee the immobiliser light?).

Turbo_Boss · 16-07-2003, 22:09

Quote:

Originally posted by big k in this post
hmm good one can't say i've come across this one but maybee a temp sensor change is the first step colours change often but i think the one's over here are black. do u get any lights flashing up (maybee the immobiliser light?).

There is not any light, neither the imovilizer light come on.
This people at my dealer dont have any clue and they have the same problem with more that 20 car 1.8T
Inclusive the Skoda Manager has one 1.8T and has the same problem.

I remember when I bought this car in october 2002 the Skoda dealer warn me about this problem but my car was starting without any problem until 3 moths ago

So your advise is to change to a green sensor and if it work ok just leave that sensor?

So what is the diference between each sensor? I mean resistance value etc?

They also change this sensor to my wife 1.6i Octavia because has similar problem , the engine vibrates in the morning and they put the green sensor.......Advised by the Skoda Factory.......... Problem resolved.

My only concern is: If I put the green sensor intead of the black, could it be possible that the engine will run rich? or damage something in the long run?

I have to wait until my next oil change to take the car to the dealer.........maybe around 3 month to make this sensor test.

Also, I forget to tell you that when I dont use the car for around 5 days or more, eaven if I wait 5 to 10 seconds for the light in the dash to turn of the engine will crank, start/turn over for about 1-2 seconds, then it will just vibrates/stall/ and die.

I dont understand whats going on but as soon I open my door to enter in the car I hear the fuel pump buzzing for around 3 second.
I asume is priming the fuel system. So why the F$%&ng car dont start in the first try.

Are you sure Skoda has not issue a boletin about this matter?

Thank you

Isaac

sgreen · 17-07-2003, 10:29

My RS has had a similar cold start problem and they have significantly improved it by fitting a new set of plugs , of all things. I also checked the temp sensor as I know they changed this and it is a green one.

Stu.

***DGW*** · 17-07-2003, 10:56

A faulty temperature sensor on my Felicia caused similar symptoms - albeit in cold weather. The engine would start and immediately cut. When the engine was checked with a VAG1551 at the dealership there were no error codes, but the extremely knowledgeable technician spotted that the sensor was sending a signal indicating that the engine was hot (135°C) when it was nothing of the sort. The end result of this was that the engine was receiving insuffient fuel to enable it to idle when cold.

Turbo_Boss · 17-07-2003, 15:44

Another things that I have notice is:

1) That some time I fill the car consume more gasoline........ I know how much money I put in gasoline every week and my driving are the same. From house to office and from office to house. On weekend we alway go out in my
wife car

2) that the engine is hot, even that the temperature gauge in the dash is ALWAYS in the middle, when I get out of the car I fill the heat in my legs under the door, and the bonnet is hot.

So do you thing this has something to do with the temperature sensor??? Or I am getting PARANOIC

Isaac

***DGW*** · 17-07-2003, 16:19

Your car's engine cooling system is working correctly if the gauge indication is in the middle when the engine is hot. As far as fuel consumption is concerned, do you keep a record of distance covered and fuel used? The fuel consumption of my unmodified 4X4 has varied between a low of 27.52 mpg and a high of 34.21 mpg between filling up. The overall mpg is currently 31.10. I do not think you have anything to worry about apart from getting the starting problem sorted.

PS The temperature sensor on my 2002 car is black.

PPS I have checked ETKA and it seems that the original (black) dual temperature sensor PN 078 919 501 C has been superceded by PN 059 919 501 A (4 pin green 20MM). The latter is the same part number (PN) quoted on VWVortex.

Turbo_Boss · 17-07-2003, 20:08

Quote:

do you keep a record of distance covered and fuel used?

No, I dont...................But I know how much money I spend every 3 days so that why I am thinking the car is consuming more fuel.

I will call the dealer to make and apointment so he can change the sensor...............maybe next week

Isaac

big k · 17-07-2003, 20:22

t/boss was talking to area tech manager today about your problem and he seems to think this is a maf sensor problem has it been changed? (they don't bring up a code even when faulty sometimes) and also i checked on a new vrs in the showroom and that has gold coloured pins in the multiplug!

***DGW*** · 18-07-2003, 07:50

...and a green temperature sensor, K?

Turbo_Boss · 18-07-2003, 16:01

Quote:

Originally posted by big k in this post
t/boss was talking to area tech manager today about your problem and he seems to think this is a maf sensor problem has it been changed? (they don't bring up a code even when faulty sometimes) and also i checked on a new vrs in the showroom and that has gold coloured pins in the multiplug!

Hello Big K,
No, they have not change the MAF sensor or anything yet.
I send to the Skoda manager a copy of this post/tread to ask him what he think and if he have change the MAF in his own 1.8T to try to fix the ploblem. He says no because the VAG tool says every thing is OK. Maybe they are not aware that the MAF sometimes don't bring up a code even when faulty.
He toll me today over the phone that with one car they do a test and disconect the barometric presure sensor and keep it disconected and the problem fix. So what you think about this?

Also, today before I start my car, I open the bonned and disconect
the MAF sensor and keep it disconected and then start the engine without waiting 10 seconds and the engine start inmediatelly without any stall or vibration.
There was not any malfuntion light on the dash.
So I close the bonned and went to my work.......I was trying to drive more faster so I can prove if the car/engine run OK with the MAF disconected but I notice the engine was NOT working OK.
So I stop to a side turn the engine OF and conect again the MAF,
Start the engine and then the engine was working better.

So is this mean that the MAF is OK??
Or the test I do is not the way to see if the MAF is OK.

Sorry I bother with this matter when you has toll me that the MAF can be the problem..........But can you imagine I go to the dealer leave my car telling change the MAF, then another day change the green sensor, then another day change another thing.
You know like doing trial and error.........And I really need my car to go to open the bussisnes. And they will keep the car like 2 or 3 day because they will be doing test, etc...............

I still need to check if my pins on the MAF are gold plated.........On the morning was dark so I cant see it. So I will check late with a flaslight and let you know.

Isaac

big k · 18-07-2003, 21:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Turbo_Boss in this post
Hello Big K,
No, they have not change the MAF sensor or anything yet.
I send to the Skoda manager a copy of this post/tread to ask him what he think and if he have change the MAF in his own 1.8T to try to fix the ploblem. He says no because the VAG tool says every thing is OK. Maybe they are not aware that the MAF sometimes don't bring up a code even when faulty.
He toll me today over the phone that with one car they do a test and disconect the barometric presure sensor and keep it disconected and the problem fix. So what you think about this?

Also, today before I start my car, I open the bonned and disconect
the MAF sensor and keep it disconected and then start the engine without waiting 10 seconds and the engine start inmediatelly without any stall or vibration.
There was not any malfuntion light on the dash.
So I close the bonned and went to my work.......I was trying to drive more faster so I can prove if the car/engine run OK with the MAF disconected but I notice the engine was NOT working OK.
So I stop to a side turn the engine OF and conect again the MAF,
Start the engine and then the engine was working better.

So is this mean that the MAF is OK??
Or the test I do is not the way to see if the MAF is OK.

Sorry I bother with this matter when you has toll me that the MAF can be the problem..........But can you imagine I go to the dealer leave my car telling change the MAF, then another day change the green sensor, then another day change another thing.
You know like doing trial and error.........And I really need my car to go to open the bussisnes. And they will keep the car like 2 or 3 day because they will be doing test, etc...............

I still need to check if my pins on the MAF are gold plated.........On the morning was dark so I cant see it. So I will check late with a flaslight and let you know.

Isaac

sounds like it could well be the maf sensor then !

big k · 18-07-2003, 21:54

Quote:

Originally posted by DGW in this post
...and a green temperature sensor, K?

dunno didn't look

Turbo_Boss · 19-07-2003, 01:05

Quote:

Originally posted by big k in this post
sounds like it could well be the maf sensor then !

I check my MAF today and the 4 pin are copper color ..... they are not exactly gold color.

What you think?

Isaac

big k · 19-07-2003, 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Turbo_Boss in this post
I check my MAF today and the 4 pin are copper color ..... they are not exactly gold color.

What you think?

Isaac

same as one in showroom then i think i would go for maf sensor first.

Turbo_Boss · 19-07-2003, 19:48

OK, thank you for your help. I will see when I have time to take the car to the dealer so they can chang it.

I will keep you informed of the results.

Isaac

Turbo_Boss · 25-01-2004, 02:43

OK guys, Remember about my cold starting problem and that I was filling my car was consuming more gasoline.

Well I take the car to the dealer for the oil change and they change my black coolant temperature sensor for the green one. I confirm you that all my problems goes

On the morning the car start inmediatelly without waiting and I note fuel eficiency.

The dealer CONFIRN ME that they receive instrucctions from the factory to change the black coolant temperature sensor for the green one to all 1.8T

I also call my best friend here that also has a 1.8T, he was not having any issue/problem with his black sensor but the Skoda dealer also change it for the green one.

Isaac

adaadams · 25-01-2004, 11:27

the MAF sensor can cause lots of problems but a main problem i have come across is the built in Altitude sensor. which sometimes tells the ecu that the is at a higher or lower hight which causes the fuel to increase or decrease which could cause problem like yours with hard starting and increased fuel usage. also at same time get your dealer to check the measured value of the flow it should give them an actual reading and a Specific reading should be more or less the same. just a few thought for them to look into. have you come across this at all K?

Lummox · 25-01-2004, 14:51

Good way to check if the MAF is working correctly is to look at the Lambda probe voltages in measured value blocks (if you have VAG COM or get ur dealer to do it with diag equipent). Measured value blocks (08) usually about group 031

Voltage should be about 0.8 volts under load from probe 1. If it isnt i.e 0.5 etc thent he MAF is reading incorrect and altering the fueling causing a weak mixture.

Just an easy 5 min test that I usually do before a car goes on the rolling road to check the mixture isnt weak before altering boost because like you say checking the fault codes sometimes isnt engough.

Hope this is of some help

Ross

Turbo_Boss · 25-01-2004, 17:17

THX for the MAF info. But the green sensor cure/fix my cold starting problem and my increased fuel usage. So I am very happy. I can confirm you that my car barely consume fuel.........And believe me, my feet is very heavy on the gas pedal

Isaac

14-07-2003, 01:22	#1
Turbo_Boss Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Panama Republic of Panama Posts: 324 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Hard Starting Problem With 1.8t I've been having these issues for a while now with my 2002 Skoda Octavia L&K 1.8T AGU code engine. Scenario: The car will crank, start/turn over for about 1-2 seconds, then it will just vibrates/stall/ and die. Inmediatelly I try to start it again and the engine start without any problem. It happends every day, the first start of the day, then its start ok for the rest of the day until the next day after sitting overnight. Needless to say that at the VAG service NOTHING came up with the computer and there were no error readings. The Skoda manager has a 1.8T and has the same problem and they cant find a solution and toll me it has the same problem with anothers 1.8T A recommendation by the manager is to insert the key, wait 5 to10 seconds for the lights in the dash to go off, then start the engine. I have found out that I can get a clean start up with this procedure. Can you belive this! Is look like I am runing a diesel car and have to wait for the heater! I was readind on Vortex forum that some people has experience similar starting problem and they have change the BLACK temperature coolant sensor for a GREEN one. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=858782 http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=872924 I will wait for my next service to talk with the dealer to make a test changing this sensor. What you think about this? Have any of you have encounter similar problem? Big K, What color are the colant sensor on the 1.8T Octavias there? Do you have and idea or recomendation? Isaac Last edited by Turbo_Boss; 16-07-2003 at 03:40.

16-07-2003, 20:23	#2
big k Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: u.k Posts: 1,215 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	hmm good one can't say i've come across this one but maybee a temp sensor change is the first step colours change often but i think the one's over here are black. do u get any lights flashing up (maybee the immobiliser light?). __________________ how can me find a jet engine for me rapid ?

17-07-2003, 10:56	#5
*DGW* BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 17,259 Thanks: 51 Thanked 197 Times in 149 Posts	A faulty temperature sensor on my Felicia caused similar symptoms - albeit in cold weather. The engine would start and immediately cut. When the engine was checked with a VAG1551 at the dealership there were no error codes, but the extremely knowledgeable technician spotted that the sensor was sending a signal indicating that the engine was hot (135°C) when it was nothing of the sort. The end result of this was that the engine was receiving insuffient fuel to enable it to idle when cold. __________________ Denis 2002 Octavia 1.8T 4X4 turbo Estate - rebreathed on by Jabba ... 31.93mpg 2007 Fabia vRS - CC, ESP and full leather trim by Seat Surgeons ...48.57 mpg...

17-07-2003, 16:19	#7
*DGW* BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 17,259 Thanks: 51 Thanked 197 Times in 149 Posts	Your car's engine cooling system is working correctly if the gauge indication is in the middle when the engine is hot. As far as fuel consumption is concerned, do you keep a record of distance covered and fuel used? The fuel consumption of my unmodified 4X4 has varied between a low of 27.52 mpg and a high of 34.21 mpg between filling up. The overall mpg is currently 31.10. I do not think you have anything to worry about apart from getting the starting problem sorted. PS The temperature sensor on my 2002 car is black. PPS I have checked ETKA and it seems that the original (black) dual temperature sensor PN 078 919 501 C has been superceded by PN 059 919 501 A (4 pin green 20MM). The latter is the same part number (PN) quoted on VWVortex. __________________ Denis 2002 Octavia 1.8T 4X4 turbo Estate - rebreathed on by Jabba ... 31.93mpg 2007 Fabia vRS - CC, ESP and full leather trim by Seat Surgeons ...48.57 mpg... Last edited by DGW; 17-07-2003 at 18:24.

17-07-2003, 20:22	#9
big k Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: u.k Posts: 1,215 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	t/boss was talking to area tech manager today about your problem and he seems to think this is a maf sensor problem has it been changed? (they don't bring up a code even when faulty sometimes) and also i checked on a new vrs in the showroom and that has gold coloured pins in the multiplug! __________________ how can me find a jet engine for me rapid ?

17-07-2003, 10:29	#4
sgreen Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Stalybridge Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My RS has had a similar cold start problem and they have significantly improved it by fitting a new set of plugs , of all things. I also checked the temp sensor as I know they changed this and it is a green one. Stu.

17-07-2003, 15:44	#6
Turbo_Boss Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Panama Republic of Panama Posts: 324 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Another things that I have notice is: 1) That some time I fill the car consume more gasoline........ I know how much money I put in gasoline every week and my driving are the same. From house to office and from office to house. On weekend we alway go out in my wife car 2) that the engine is hot, even that the temperature gauge in the dash is ALWAYS in the middle, when I get out of the car I fill the heat in my legs under the door, and the bonnet is hot. So do you thing this has something to do with the temperature sensor??? Or I am getting PARANOIC Isaac

18-07-2003, 07:50	#10
*DGW* BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 17,259 Thanks: 51 Thanked 197 Times in 149 Posts	...and a green temperature sensor, K? __________________ Denis 2002 Octavia 1.8T 4X4 turbo Estate - rebreathed on by Jabba ... 31.93mpg 2007 Fabia vRS - CC, ESP and full leather trim by Seat Surgeons ...48.57 mpg...

19-07-2003, 19:48	#16
Turbo_Boss Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Panama Republic of Panama Posts: 324 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	OK, thank you for your help. I will see when I have time to take the car to the dealer so they can chang it. I will keep you informed of the results. Isaac

25-01-2004, 02:43	#17
Turbo_Boss Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Panama Republic of Panama Posts: 324 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	OK guys, Remember about my cold starting problem and that I was filling my car was consuming more gasoline. Well I take the car to the dealer for the oil change and they change my black coolant temperature sensor for the green one. I confirm you that all my problems goes On the morning the car start inmediatelly without waiting and I note fuel eficiency. The dealer CONFIRN ME that they receive instrucctions from the factory to change the black coolant temperature sensor for the green one to all 1.8T I also call my best friend here that also has a 1.8T, he was not having any issue/problem with his black sensor but the Skoda dealer also change it for the green one. Isaac

25-01-2004, 11:27	#18
adaadams Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Birmingham Posts: 509 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the MAF sensor can cause lots of problems but a main problem i have come across is the built in Altitude sensor. which sometimes tells the ecu that the is at a higher or lower hight which causes the fuel to increase or decrease which could cause problem like yours with hard starting and increased fuel usage. also at same time get your dealer to check the measured value of the flow it should give them an actual reading and a Specific reading should be more or less the same. just a few thought for them to look into. have you come across this at all K? __________________ ADE Last edited by adaadams; 25-01-2004 at 11:29.

25-01-2004, 14:51	#19
Lummox Cupra Bush King Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 22,335 Images: 2 Thanks: 22 Thanked 739 Times in 621 Posts	Good way to check if the MAF is working correctly is to look at the Lambda probe voltages in measured value blocks (if you have VAG COM or get ur dealer to do it with diag equipent). Measured value blocks (08) usually about group 031 Voltage should be about 0.8 volts under load from probe 1. If it isnt i.e 0.5 etc thent he MAF is reading incorrect and altering the fueling causing a weak mixture. Just an easy 5 min test that I usually do before a car goes on the rolling road to check the mixture isnt weak before altering boost because like you say checking the fault codes sometimes isnt engough. Hope this is of some help Ross __________________ Unit 18 Automotive Services www.unit18.co.uk Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

25-01-2004, 17:17	#20
Turbo_Boss Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Panama Republic of Panama Posts: 324 Thanks: 4 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	THX for the MAF info. But the green sensor cure/fix my cold starting problem and my increased fuel usage. So I am very happy. I can confirm you that my car barely consume fuel.........And believe me, my feet is very heavy on the gas pedal Isaac Last edited by Turbo_Boss; 26-01-2004 at 01:01.

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