has the fabia hit its ceiling?

bengie · 20-09-2008, 00:20

i've following everyones tuning of the PD130 and i have come to the following conclusions :-

PD130+remap gives good results and excellent value for money.

PD130+stage 2 turbo gives very good results and again excellent value for money.

PD130+stage 2 turbo and bolt ons gives excellent results and good value for money.

thats about it, people seem to be reaching 250-260bhp and struggling to go further. I can see why people go through the tuning when they have owned the car for a while and fancy more power but i simply don't understand those who buy one planning on modding it to this extent when the same money into a petrol turbo gives greater performance gains but admitidly lower fuel efficiency etc.

now please don't get all hormonal on me and accuse me of fabia bashing blah blah as i'm not, i'm simply wondering if others see the current PD130 tuning the same as me? do others think that it's pretty much peaked?

Decron · 20-09-2008, 00:26

I thought this was obvious about 2 years and 400 threads ago.

The power is useless without control and thats where it gets expensive.

bengie · 20-09-2008, 00:33

oh i completely agree that with anything over a remap you really really should have an LSD and very good tyres and even a standard car would benefit from these but people were only just pushing 220bhp 2 years ago and how far have they got in 2 years? another 40bhp which lets be honest is very little.

Decron · 20-09-2008, 00:49

I suppose it is what it is.

I used to get quite a perverse kick out of doing a rolling road day or a track session, getting good figures or just doing well and then letting everyone know it was running on recycled veg oil.

TeflonTom · 20-09-2008, 03:48

i saw the thread title and thought this was going to be a 'oh **** i've rolled my fabia thread"

devonmikeyboy · 20-09-2008, 04:26

I take it you don`t know about this PD130 then?

bengie · 20-09-2008, 09:30

bloody hell!

whats been done to that one mikey? tbh i am only going on what i've seen on this forum and other uk forums, if this sort of power is possible how come uk tuners are struggling to get past 250bhp?

devonutopia · 20-09-2008, 09:54

That's Stingray's 4wd lupo running in the 10 seconds.

The PD engine is essentially barely recognisable. The main mods from memory are a rebore - I think to 2.1 litres. 100mm forged pistons and lightened, balanced crankset. Then you bolt on a stupidly big turbo, some nozzles which fuel around 100+% more than stock pd130. Then some mapping.

bengie · 20-09-2008, 09:58

looing at that graph again it looks like it doesn't drive like a typical PD engine and more like a petrol engine with a reduced rev range.

devonutopia · 20-09-2008, 10:18

I think they cut the run short @ 4000rpm for some reason too. I think there was more power to give.

TeflonTom · 20-09-2008, 11:05

if i'm reading that chart right it's over 350bhp right?? how reliable is it??

cjb · 20-09-2008, 11:29

Crikey. I was about to say "260 is very impressive from a 1.9 diesel, so maybe that is the ceiling".

devonutopia · 20-09-2008, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeflonTom

if i'm reading that chart right it's over 350bhp right?? how reliable is it??

350+ at all 4 wheels as well.

It's been built by a tuning company so the best parts have been used. I'm not aware of it having blown up or anything and it's used in competetive drag racing.

This is the car.

YouTube - vw lupo 4x4 1,9 tdi mimonske valky

YouTube - VW Lupo 1.9 TDI 4x4 400m sprint 1/3 PROFI TUNING SK

YouTube - vw Lupo 1.9 tdi 4x4 vs porsche , corvette

***Neo_VR*** · 20-09-2008, 12:05

Interesting thread... i agree with...

*BUT* i would be as harsh to say that anything above bolt-ons/remap is a lost cause.

as far as 200bhp+ goes as being useable day to day... im not so sure considering the silly amounts of smoke they produce..
to get a "nice" non smokey stage 2 will limit a TDI to around 200bhp.. which IMHO is not worth the cost over a remap when you take all the "extras" like FMIC and clutch into account.

Also the amount that jason has spent on his car i have no doubt that a 1.8t with a IHI or something could have gone in for a similar cost and have more power and better driveability too.

oilburninnut · 21-09-2008, 09:12

i think we are just beggining to see the start of real pd130 tuning tbh,as they become cheaper,and more start tuning them the figures will rise.
s for buying one specifically for tuning,well,i've had most other things and i was looking for somthing that didn't come with all the drawbacks of big power petrols,specifically fuel consumption,and was after somthing that was a little more chalenging,that people wouldn't expect to be fast,i have invested a lot of money in the chassis and i'm not done yet,getting someone to tune the engine to the levels i'm after is proving more difficult,but i'm not giving up just yet,especiay as i may have a nice mk 5 ed 30 golf coming as my new dailey soon,i will be able to take the fabia to the extreme,which is exactly how i want it

yegnold · 21-09-2008, 09:54

I've always thought that ~ 150 / 160hp would be plenty for the Fabia VRS, but hats off to Jason and other 200bhp+ people for the time, money and effort they have put in...

.

To answer the original question - I'd agree that we're beginning to the see ceiling...The JCB diesel racer thing manages 150bhp per litre, so I'd be impressed if anyone with a 1.9TDI PD engine managed 300bhp (that would be 158.22bhp per litre)

Interphase · 21-09-2008, 10:14

The Dieselmax engine isn't designed for outright power though - it was made with strength and flexibility in mind, and so there are considerations that aren't necessary for someone building a street engine.

JCB DIESELMAX

ultra_joel88 · 21-09-2008, 11:30

The most efficient way to mod it is probably to do the little things (pd160, exhaust etc) then get it remapped... then when your original turbo goes wack in a bigger one and get it mapped again by the same mapper who should offer a discount

Shifty · 21-09-2008, 11:35

I think 300 bhp will be the new figure soon. I think when the WI is on, and running correctly, I should be seeing even more MPG, much less smoke, and some more power.

I dont think it has peaked at all yet

bengie · 21-09-2008, 12:01

but it seems a lot of work for little gain, the work you've done on yours Dave could be seeing you at double the power from a 1.8T.

doing everything under the sun and hoping for 300bhp seems crazy when changing turbo/manifold/injectors and a remap gives an easy 300bhp from a 1.8T with double that possible if you throw enough cash at it.

the only real benefit is the mpg which is going to be far higher on the diesel.

Shifty · 21-09-2008, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengie

the only real benefit is the mpg which is going to be far higher on the diesel.

Insurance, Tax, it wont get stolen, It doesnt attract the Plod.......etc

And more importantly, if I wanted to do a 1.8 t - I would have done

. I did a 2.0 TFSi instead, and the rest of the car around the engine bored me. It turns out even the fastest 2.0 Tfsi on this site cant get away from the Derv on the road.

The next mod is at a discounted price, and for the good it will do is excellent value

bengie · 21-09-2008, 12:17

really? so you can keep up with that chaps K04'd cupra can you? or are you talking about steve's car with nothing but basic bolt on's like a 180bhp fabia will have?

and you think that hoofing it off the line with industrial clouds of smoke and loads of noise won't get you pulled?

only once have i been pulled by the bobbies in my octavia and thats down to the fact he could hear my exhaust as he was stood by the road

Shifty · 21-09-2008, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengie

really? so you can keep up with that chaps K04'd cupra can you? or are you talking about steve's car with nothing but basic bolt on's like a 180bhp fabia will have?

and you think that hoofing it off the line with industrial clouds of smoke and loads of noise won't get you pulled?

only once have i been pulled by the bobbies in my octavia and thats down to the fact he could hear my exhaust as he was stood by the road

Loads of noise? I dont have a straight through pipe, it makes the same noise as a standard one

As for how much I do/do not get pulled in it, in the 3 years I have been driving it, I may have a better idea of that than you

, and I have actually only been pulled over once. Just as a matter of interest, I was pulled frequently in the Octavia.

Steve's car, Harry's car.... who cares. You have a preference for petrol cars, I have a preference for something a little different. I gave you my answer to your OP, and again you wish to be a little childish about it. I CBA being drawn into it.

yegnold · 21-09-2008, 12:35

I think one of the nice things about the tuned diesel cars is the "Is that a diesel?!" effect, anyway!

Shifty · 21-09-2008, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by yegnold

I think one of the nice things about the tuned diesel cars is the "Is that a diesel?!" effect, anyway!

Exactly.

20-09-2008, 00:20	#1
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,219 Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	has the fabia hit its ceiling? i've following everyones tuning of the PD130 and i have come to the following conclusions :- PD130+remap gives good results and excellent value for money. PD130+stage 2 turbo gives very good results and again excellent value for money. PD130+stage 2 turbo and bolt ons gives excellent results and good value for money. thats about it, people seem to be reaching 250-260bhp and struggling to go further. I can see why people go through the tuning when they have owned the car for a while and fancy more power but i simply don't understand those who buy one planning on modding it to this extent when the same money into a petrol turbo gives greater performance gains but admitidly lower fuel efficiency etc. now please don't get all hormonal on me and accuse me of fabia bashing blah blah as i'm not, i'm simply wondering if others see the current PD130 tuning the same as me? do others think that it's pretty much peaked? __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

20-09-2008, 00:26	#2
Decron It's all good Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cwmbran - South Wales Posts: 3,540 Thanks: 66 Thanked 259 Times in 187 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? I thought this was obvious about 2 years and 400 threads ago. The power is useless without control and thats where it gets expensive.

20-09-2008, 00:33	#3
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,219 Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? oh i completely agree that with anything over a remap you really really should have an LSD and very good tyres and even a standard car would benefit from these but people were only just pushing 220bhp 2 years ago and how far have they got in 2 years? another 40bhp which lets be honest is very little. __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

20-09-2008, 00:49	#4
Decron It's all good Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cwmbran - South Wales Posts: 3,540 Thanks: 66 Thanked 259 Times in 187 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? I suppose it is what it is. I used to get quite a perverse kick out of doing a rolling road day or a track session, getting good figures or just doing well and then letting everyone know it was running on recycled veg oil.

20-09-2008, 03:48	#5
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 8,214 Thanks: 47 Thanked 231 Times in 203 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? i saw the thread title and thought this was going to be a 'oh **** i've rolled my fabia thread"

20-09-2008, 04:26	#6
devonmikeyboy Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: southwest Posts: 115 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? I take it you don`t know about this PD130 then? __________________ 06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.Diesel,propane,NOS,hybrid turbo etc...... 330 bhp @ flywheels 263 bhp @ wheel 440 lb torque. . Car and dyno pictures etc here Magazine write up here

20-09-2008, 09:30	#7
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,219 Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? bloody hell! whats been done to that one mikey? tbh i am only going on what i've seen on this forum and other uk forums, if this sort of power is possible how come uk tuners are struggling to get past 250bhp? __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

20-09-2008, 09:54	#8
devonutopia Mongreller Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Exeter / Devon Posts: 30,084 Images: 5 Thanks: 76 Thanked 347 Times in 290 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? That's Stingray's 4wd lupo running in the 10 seconds. The PD engine is essentially barely recognisable. The main mods from memory are a rebore - I think to 2.1 litres. 100mm forged pistons and lightened, balanced crankset. Then you bolt on a stupidly big turbo, some nozzles which fuel around 100+% more than stock pd130. Then some mapping. __________________ Jason - Mongrel owner! WOOOOF! Grrrrr Custom Fabia Bonnet Lifter Kits - £45! Click Me. Cheesy bonnet lifter video to "raise me up" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnGECEi5Oc See the mongrel's 260bhp Dyno Video!

20-09-2008, 09:58	#9
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,219 Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? looing at that graph again it looks like it doesn't drive like a typical PD engine and more like a petrol engine with a reduced rev range. __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

20-09-2008, 10:18	#10
devonutopia Mongreller Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Exeter / Devon Posts: 30,084 Images: 5 Thanks: 76 Thanked 347 Times in 290 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? I think they cut the run short @ 4000rpm for some reason too. I think there was more power to give. __________________ Jason - Mongrel owner! WOOOOF! Grrrrr Custom Fabia Bonnet Lifter Kits - £45! Click Me. Cheesy bonnet lifter video to "raise me up" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnGECEi5Oc See the mongrel's 260bhp Dyno Video!

20-09-2008, 11:05	#11
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 8,214 Thanks: 47 Thanked 231 Times in 203 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? if i'm reading that chart right it's over 350bhp right?? how reliable is it??

20-09-2008, 11:29	#12
cjb Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Walsall Posts: 1,714 Thanks: 105 Thanked 111 Times in 107 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? Crikey. I was about to say "260 is very impressive from a 1.9 diesel, so maybe that is the ceiling". __________________ -- Chris ---------------------------------------------------- The Devil may care, but I don't mind.

20-09-2008, 12:05	#14
*Neo_VR* Om nom nom nom Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 12,423 Thanks: 77 Thanked 176 Times in 125 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? Interesting thread... i agree with... BUT i would be as harsh to say that anything above bolt-ons/remap is a lost cause. as far as 200bhp+ goes as being useable day to day... im not so sure considering the silly amounts of smoke they produce.. to get a "nice" non smokey stage 2 will limit a TDI to around 200bhp.. which IMHO is not worth the cost over a remap when you take all the "extras" like FMIC and clutch into account. Also the amount that jason has spent on his car i have no doubt that a 1.8t with a IHI or something could have gone in for a similar cost and have more power and better driveability too. __________________ ColGod the UberMod ,___, [O.o] /)__) -"--"- ORLY??

21-09-2008, 09:12	#15
oilburninnut Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,630 Thanks: 180 Thanked 136 Times in 128 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? i think we are just beggining to see the start of real pd130 tuning tbh,as they become cheaper,and more start tuning them the figures will rise. s for buying one specifically for tuning,well,i've had most other things and i was looking for somthing that didn't come with all the drawbacks of big power petrols,specifically fuel consumption,and was after somthing that was a little more chalenging,that people wouldn't expect to be fast,i have invested a lot of money in the chassis and i'm not done yet,getting someone to tune the engine to the levels i'm after is proving more difficult,but i'm not giving up just yet,especiay as i may have a nice mk 5 ed 30 golf coming as my new dailey soon,i will be able to take the fabia to the extreme,which is exactly how i want it __________________ Gary www.dogboxmedia.co.uk

21-09-2008, 10:14	#17
Interphase Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 328 Thanks: 14 Thanked 29 Times in 25 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? The Dieselmax engine isn't designed for outright power though - it was made with strength and flexibility in mind, and so there are considerations that aren't necessary for someone building a street engine. JCB DIESELMAX

21-09-2008, 11:30	#18
ultra_joel88 Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Brecon/ Cardiff Posts: 2,510 Thanks: 26 Thanked 114 Times in 108 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? The most efficient way to mod it is probably to do the little things (pd160, exhaust etc) then get it remapped... then when your original turbo goes wack in a bigger one and get it mapped again by the same mapper who should offer a discount __________________ '04 Fabia VRS - 312mm Brakes, Whiteline RARB, SEAT Sport Strut Brace, Pipercross Panel Filter & PD160 Intake, Pioneer and Infinity ICE, Custom exhaust system w/ de-cat, CCV Bypass w/ Catch Can, Boost + Volt Gauge, Window Tints

21-09-2008, 11:35	#19
Shifty www.oscarli.com Join Date: May 2005 Location: The home of witty banter™ Posts: 6,454 Images: 1 Thanks: 86 Thanked 155 Times in 92 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? I think 300 bhp will be the new figure soon. I think when the WI is on, and running correctly, I should be seeing even more MPG, much less smoke, and some more power. I dont think it has peaked at all yet __________________ Official 0 to 60 mph - 5.85 seconds. Standing 1/4 mile - 14.3 seconds. 251.5 BHP and 400 lbs/ft of torque. Oh - and 55 mpg on a run My car is for SALE!! www.fyldeperformancecars.com

21-09-2008, 12:01	#20
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,219 Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? but it seems a lot of work for little gain, the work you've done on yours Dave could be seeing you at double the power from a 1.8T. doing everything under the sun and hoping for 300bhp seems crazy when changing turbo/manifold/injectors and a remap gives an easy 300bhp from a 1.8T with double that possible if you throw enough cash at it. the only real benefit is the mpg which is going to be far higher on the diesel. __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

21-09-2008, 12:17	#22
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,219 Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	Re: has the fabia hit its ceiling? really? so you can keep up with that chaps K04'd cupra can you? or are you talking about steve's car with nothing but basic bolt on's like a 180bhp fabia will have? and you think that hoofing it off the line with industrial clouds of smoke and loads of noise won't get you pulled? only once have i been pulled by the bobbies in my octavia and thats down to the fact he could hear my exhaust as he was stood by the road __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3