Soft brake pedal after brake change

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 20:32

A local garage fitted my new DS2500s and discs today along with some Motul 600 fluid (their supply). However, when I got home, the pedal was very soft. They say they bled the system properly but only used 500ml of fluid!

Now I've read that the system holds 1.75L and they swear they drained the system so what is going on? Is there any advice you can give. Is there a knack in draining the Tavia system?

It's going back to them tomorrow morning so any help out there?

Steve

Kentish · 16-01-2004, 20:51

My expierience of brake pad replacements is usually that they are soft until bedded in, and unless you are ready for it "ohhhhhhhhhhh shhiiiiiiiiiittt" moment will happen until they have hardened and bedded. Having said that, I may be wrong as you have done a "mod" on the braking instead.

Lummox · 16-01-2004, 20:58

If they let the fluid level get to low when they bled the system out you will have air in the ABS valve block and you cant bleed it out correctly without the correct diagnostic kit or VAG COM.

Does the pedal pump up solid and then go soft?

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 21:07

No, just soft all the time. Are you saying I need to go to a dealer to get the fluid replaced?

Steve

***ncarring*** · 16-01-2004, 21:19

Steve give it a few miles to allow the discs and pads to bed in, trying to use the brakes gently and progressively. If the pedal stays soft it sounds like you need a more comprehensive fluid replacement and bleeding process carried out. Like Ross said, the fluid level during bleeding should never be allowed to drop low enough to allow air to enter the master cylinder and therefore be pumped into the rest of the system. I'd be surprised if even the smallest garage wasn't using a pressure bleeder to bleed the system anyway, and then the only way air could get in would be if they forgot to top up the bleeder reservoir.

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 21:20

It's definetly not just the bedding in process, the pedal has a much longer travel.

Steve

Lummox · 16-01-2004, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve vRS

No, just soft all the time. Are you saying I need to go to a dealer to get the fluid replaced?

Steve

No not at all. You can change your fluid at home with a jam jar and a bit of tube and it will be fine, just as long as the reservior is kept topped up. It doesnt take alot to empty the Octy reservoir though thats why i use a pressure bleeder as mentioned that keeps it full all the time.

Hope things get sorted for you.

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 21:36

Could you post a method and I'll do it myself?

Thanks

Steve

Lummox · 16-01-2004, 21:39

Not if there is air in the ABS unit no as you would need the VAG equipemnt to open the valves/solenoids in the ABS pump to clear the lines.

If you just want to have a go at bleeding them get down to Halfords and buy a 'Gunsons' easy bleed kit. Its a pressure bleeder that uses a car tyre to bleed the fluid out so you can do it on your own, comes with instructions.

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Clarke

Not if there is air in the ABS unit no as you would need the VAG equipemnt to open the valves/solenoids in the ABS pump to clear the lines.

So I do need fancy stuff!

I used a tango bottle and some rubber hose on my Scoob!

Steve

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 21:43

300 posts

Steve

Lummox · 16-01-2004, 21:44

Like I said only IF the fluid level had dropped enough for air to enter the ABS unit. Which it sounds like it has.

Normally if you are just replacing the fluid then as long as you keep the level topped up you are fine.

But my advice would be get it checked over by a garage. Brakes are far to important to risk.

Steve vRS · 16-01-2004, 21:46

OK, I'll pop to the local Seat dealer (Skoda garage is too far away) and see if they can help.

Thanks

Steve

***ncarring*** · 16-01-2004, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Clarke

If you just want to have a go at bleeding them get down to Halfords and buy a 'Gunsons' easy bleed kit. Its a pressure bleeder that uses a car tyre to bleed the fluid out so you can do it on your own, comes with instructions.

And a fine piece of kit it is too - I swear by mine. Steve if you're anywhere at all handy and you want to borrow it, you're welcome.

big k · 17-01-2004, 21:11

i don't think you would have got air in the abs block (never have myself) after about a zillion changes and bleeds try bleeding your self stating from the thurthest point ie the o/s/r.

Steve vRS · 17-01-2004, 21:25

The system has been rebled and the pedal is hard when the pads are against the disc. However, I think there is too much travel in the pedal. The garage says that the pistons are moving as soon as the pedal is touched but the calipers are flexing on their sliders. they also say that the pistons are sliding right back in rather than staying just shy of the disc, hence the long travel.

Can anyone comment on this?

Steve

big k · 17-01-2004, 21:27

so the pistons are slidding right back to the max retracted position?

Steve vRS · 17-01-2004, 21:28

I think so.

Steve

big k · 17-01-2004, 21:38

i had this a couple of months ago after changing both front and rear discs and pads told customer to drive 500 miles got him back and re-bled and hey-presto brakes were ok again maybee you should try this?

Steve vRS · 17-01-2004, 21:40

How much fluid should a full fluid change take. I've heard it should be 1.75L but I'm sure only 1L (now after the second bleed) has been used at the most!

Steve

16-01-2004, 20:32	#1
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Soft brake pedal after brake change A local garage fitted my new DS2500s and discs today along with some Motul 600 fluid (their supply). However, when I got home, the pedal was very soft. They say they bled the system properly but only used 500ml of fluid! Now I've read that the system holds 1.75L and they swear they drained the system so what is going on? Is there any advice you can give. Is there a knack in draining the Tavia system? It's going back to them tomorrow morning so any help out there? Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

16-01-2004, 20:51	#2
Kentish Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 5,230 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	My expierience of brake pad replacements is usually that they are soft until bedded in, and unless you are ready for it "ohhhhhhhhhhh shhiiiiiiiiiittt" moment will happen until they have hardened and bedded. Having said that, I may be wrong as you have done a "mod" on the braking instead. __________________ Andy Owner of a sense of humour.

16-01-2004, 20:58	#3
Lummox Hairy Yeti Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 21,415 Thanks: 19 Thanked 573 Times in 501 Posts	If they let the fluid level get to low when they bled the system out you will have air in the ABS valve block and you cant bleed it out correctly without the correct diagnostic kit or VAG COM. Does the pedal pump up solid and then go soft? __________________ Unit 18 now open Servicing, repairs, modifications you name it we do it. Cupra console bushes at special price, PM for a very competitive quote.

16-01-2004, 21:07	#4
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	No, just soft all the time. Are you saying I need to go to a dealer to get the fluid replaced? Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

16-01-2004, 21:19	#5
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,867 Thanks: 15 Thanked 86 Times in 74 Posts	Steve give it a few miles to allow the discs and pads to bed in, trying to use the brakes gently and progressively. If the pedal stays soft it sounds like you need a more comprehensive fluid replacement and bleeding process carried out. Like Ross said, the fluid level during bleeding should never be allowed to drop low enough to allow air to enter the master cylinder and therefore be pumped into the rest of the system. I'd be surprised if even the smallest garage wasn't using a pressure bleeder to bleed the system anyway, and then the only way air could get in would be if they forgot to top up the bleeder reservoir. __________________ Nick

16-01-2004, 21:20	#6
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	It's definetly not just the bedding in process, the pedal has a much longer travel. Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

16-01-2004, 21:36	#8
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Could you post a method and I'll do it myself? Thanks Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

16-01-2004, 21:39	#9
Lummox Hairy Yeti Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 21,415 Thanks: 19 Thanked 573 Times in 501 Posts	Not if there is air in the ABS unit no as you would need the VAG equipemnt to open the valves/solenoids in the ABS pump to clear the lines. If you just want to have a go at bleeding them get down to Halfords and buy a 'Gunsons' easy bleed kit. Its a pressure bleeder that uses a car tyre to bleed the fluid out so you can do it on your own, comes with instructions. __________________ Unit 18 now open Servicing, repairs, modifications you name it we do it. Cupra console bushes at special price, PM for a very competitive quote.

16-01-2004, 21:43	#11
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	300 posts Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

16-01-2004, 21:44	#12
Lummox Hairy Yeti Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 21,415 Thanks: 19 Thanked 573 Times in 501 Posts	Like I said only IF the fluid level had dropped enough for air to enter the ABS unit. Which it sounds like it has. Normally if you are just replacing the fluid then as long as you keep the level topped up you are fine. But my advice would be get it checked over by a garage. Brakes are far to important to risk. __________________ Unit 18 now open Servicing, repairs, modifications you name it we do it. Cupra console bushes at special price, PM for a very competitive quote.

16-01-2004, 21:46	#13
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	OK, I'll pop to the local Seat dealer (Skoda garage is too far away) and see if they can help. Thanks Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

17-01-2004, 21:11	#15
big k Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: u.k Posts: 1,215 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	i don't think you would have got air in the abs block (never have myself) after about a zillion changes and bleeds try bleeding your self stating from the thurthest point ie the o/s/r. __________________ how can me find a jet engine for me rapid ?

17-01-2004, 21:25	#16
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The system has been rebled and the pedal is hard when the pads are against the disc. However, I think there is too much travel in the pedal. The garage says that the pistons are moving as soon as the pedal is touched but the calipers are flexing on their sliders. they also say that the pistons are sliding right back in rather than staying just shy of the disc, hence the long travel. Can anyone comment on this? Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

17-01-2004, 21:27	#17
big k Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: u.k Posts: 1,215 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	so the pistons are slidding right back to the max retracted position? __________________ how can me find a jet engine for me rapid ?

17-01-2004, 21:28	#18
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I think so. Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

17-01-2004, 21:38	#19
big k Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: u.k Posts: 1,215 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	i had this a couple of months ago after changing both front and rear discs and pads told customer to drive 500 miles got him back and re-bled and hey-presto brakes were ok again maybee you should try this? __________________ how can me find a jet engine for me rapid ?

17-01-2004, 21:40	#20
Steve vRS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cumbria and Cheshire Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	How much fluid should a full fluid change take. I've heard it should be 1.75L but I'm sure only 1L (now after the second bleed) has been used at the most! Steve __________________ From Tavia vRS 230bhp to Impreza WRX STi Version V Type R to Clio 182 Cup and now a vRS TDi Octy II in Lightning McQueen Red

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