What is PD? and do i have it!?

MAS · 26-01-2004, 13:23

Hi all,
just wonderning what PD means really! I have a Fabia 2002 TDI - do i have this illusive PD system or how do i find out?

cheers all

mas

SkodiRS · 26-01-2004, 13:31

PD - pumpe duse - pump diesel (don't quote me on my translation).
Each cylinder has it's own pump, IIRC.

What's your TDi power rated at? 100bhp?

**robmawer** · 26-01-2004, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAS

just wonderning what PD means really! I have a Fabia 2002 TDI - do i have this illusive PD system or how do i find out?

Pump Deuse or something - it's just the method of fuel delivery, and I believe you do have the PD system...

Rob.

devonutopia · 26-01-2004, 13:33

It is indeed a PD engine - Hence Fabia TDI is a PD100, and the vRS is a PD130.

(And the PD100 can be a PD150 with not much effort

)

MAS · 26-01-2004, 13:34

Its a 1.9TDI 100bph

KLB · 26-01-2004, 22:26

PD = Pump Duse. I don't know the exact translation, but roughly speaking it's an "integrated pump".

Instead of having a single (so-called "common rail") high-pressure pump feeding all the injectors , PD systems have an integrated high-pressure pump and injector for each cylinder. It allows the Engine Control Unit (ECU) to exercise finer control over fuel injection - leading to better performance, especially with a custom remapped ECU.

andy ellis · 27-01-2004, 10:14

Yes you probably have a PD engine mine started life as a lowly PD100 (very early example) and know its been to Jabba it a PD145! This engine has lots of unused potential so take a trip to jabba the £400ish for a custom re-map is a must have

Dutch4x4 · 27-01-2004, 10:25

PD stands for Pumpe Duse, which translates as "pump spray". So a PD TDI engine uses a pump - instead of a common rail - to inject (or spray) its diesel fuel directly into the cylinders.

MAS · 27-01-2004, 10:32

Cheers for all this info - I was planning on a oneclick generic remap from Amd but now the price has shot back up im having to think about other routes. I have though about jabba (lots and lots and lots) but after xmas its left me living on a diet of tesco value beans and mouldy wholemeal bread - thin slice at that!

Have you noticed a massive increase in your insurance and fuel consumption, and what did you end up paying for your remap - did you get the 10% briskoda reduction? questions, questions, questions.

Cheers mas

***DGW*** · 27-01-2004, 10:39

The following is courtesy of www.canadiandriver.com:

How does the new PD system work?
In a gasoline engine, a mixture of fuel and air is compressed and then ignited with an electrical spark. A diesel engine relies purely on compression to ignite the mixture. When air is compressed it heats up - ever notice how hot the pump and hose get when hand-pumping a bicycle tire or ball? The amount of compression required for ignition in a diesel engine is far greater than that used in a spark ignition engine. So upon ignition, a significantly greater force is applied to the crankshaft resulting in greater torque.

The previous 1.9 litre turbo diesel engine - in fact, in most modern diesels - used a system where the fuel air mixture was introduced via a common rail. These systems generate a swirling motion of the air around the intake valves through especially designed intake ports. This motion causes faster mixture with the fuel when it is introduced and thus more complete combustion. This, in turn leaves less unburned fuel and emissions.

Pumpe Duse is a new fuel management and delivery system that places a pump injector at each individual cylinder producing a finer spray for better and more efficient combustion. Instead of a pre-combustion chamber found in most diesels, fuel is injected directly into each individual combustion chamber under terrific pressure at precisely the right moment. The PD works like an overhead cam system, using cam lobes to determine the timing and amount of the spray into each cylinder. The new system reduces heat loss, results in a quieter, cleaner engine, faster cold weather starts and improved low-end torque.

The PD system will be used elsewhere in the VW line-up for 2004, including a new 134-horsepower 2.0 litre diesel engine for the Passat and a 5.0 litre V10 for the Touareg giving 308 horsepower - and an astounding 555 lb. ft. of road-rippling torque.

andy ellis · 27-01-2004, 19:21

Insurance did not bat an eyelid, fuel about the same or better if I have a light foot and performance is superb!

avantius · 27-01-2004, 19:48

I've read somewhere that the common rail diesels are more efficient and evolved in terms of performance. I think the Ford use a TDCi engine.

philc · 29-01-2004, 13:41

Probably more evolved, as they've been around longer. The problem with common rail, is that you get variation in pressure in the rail as valves open and close. This can cause uneven fuelling.
PD diesels have much better control over fuel feed pressure, as each cylinder is seperately controlled. This enables the ECU code to be written in a way that gives much tighter control over fuel pressure and timing. -or so I read somewhere

Phil

ap0gee · 13-10-2004, 09:27

As more and more manufacturers churn out common rail diesels, which are apparently less advanced and less powerful / torquey litre-for-litre than PD engines (but still better than an ordinary turbo-diesel), I kinda get the feeling that VAG have missed a trick a bit like Sony did with Betamax and Minidisc by not allowing other manufacturers to licence the technology. So just as everyone has VHS video recorders and Compact Disc music players in their homes when Betamax and Minidisc are better formats, it seems everyone but VAG is using common rail technology (developed by PSA Peugeot / Citroen I think) even though PD is 'better'.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it!

SkodiRS · 13-10-2004, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ap0gee

As more and more manufacturers churn out common rail diesels, which are apparently less advanced and less powerful / torquey litre-for-litre than PD engines (but still better than an ordinary turbo-diesel), I kinda get the feeling that VAG have missed a trick a bit like Sony did with Betamax and Minidisc by not allowing other manufacturers to licence the technology. So just as everyone has VHS video recorders and Compact Disc music players in their homes when Betamax and Minidisc are better formats, it seems everyone but VAG is using common rail technology (developed by PSA Peugeot / Citroen I think) even though PD is 'better'.

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it!

I don't if common rail is less advanced but it is more refind due to the control over the pressure that the fuel is delivered into the cylinders.

All the luxo barge uses common rail..Audi included.

PD diesels by comparison can seem rough and noisey. I believe the increased noise is due to the individual pumps being shut down.

I once read an Autocar interview with the VAG Chairman (Piech) that the PD technology was good for smaller capacity engines and "lower" end cars whilst the exra refinement of the common rail diesel would be used for the "upper" end sectors.

***ncarring*** · 13-10-2004, 09:38

Er - so what were diesels before they were either common-rail or PD?

Dr Zoidberg · 13-10-2004, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncarring

Er - so what were diesels before they were either common-rail or PD?

Slow

***ncarring*** · 13-10-2004, 09:56

How very technical of you, Dr Z

lfc958 · 13-10-2004, 10:51

My Citroen had wot looked like fuel pipe into each cylinder.

Q ? if VAG chairman stated that common rail was to be used for the bigger diesels, then can anyone remember from the motor show ( Brimingham) on the display of the V10 , on the Volks stand if it WAS common rail ?

William · 13-10-2004, 11:05

So if we are to believe every thing said about PDs in this thread they are both more advanced and less advanced than common rail and they are both quieter and smoother and noisier and rougher than common rail

. We are all much better informed now

26-01-2004, 13:23	#1
MAS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leamington spa Posts: 393 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts	What is PD? and do i have it!? Hi all, just wonderning what PD means really! I have a Fabia 2002 TDI - do i have this illusive PD system or how do i find out? cheers all mas

26-01-2004, 13:31	#2
SkodiRS BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: darkest Hampshire Posts: 8,650 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 13 Posts	PD - pumpe duse - pump diesel (don't quote me on my translation). Each cylinder has it's own pump, IIRC. What's your TDi power rated at? 100bhp? __________________ Adrian.

26-01-2004, 22:26	#6
KLB Discordian Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Newport, Newport - so good the Post Office named it twice Posts: 1,962 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	PD = Pump Duse. I don't know the exact translation, but roughly speaking it's an "integrated pump". Instead of having a single (so-called "common rail") high-pressure pump feeding all the injectors , PD systems have an integrated high-pressure pump and injector for each cylinder. It allows the Engine Control Unit (ECU) to exercise finer control over fuel injection - leading to better performance, especially with a custom remapped ECU. __________________ Mike

27-01-2004, 10:14	#7
andy ellis Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,289 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yes you probably have a PD engine mine started life as a lowly PD100 (very early example) and know its been to Jabba it a PD145! This engine has lots of unused potential so take a trip to jabba the £400ish for a custom re-map is a must have __________________ Fabia TDI PD100 "Q" and driving school car. Citroen C4 Coupe 1.6hDi+EGS with disability adaptations.

27-01-2004, 10:25	#8
Dutch4x4 Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: kicking up feet in the Formula Stealth paddock Posts: 3,153 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	PD stands for Pumpe Duse, which translates as "pump spray". So a PD TDI engine uses a pump - instead of a common rail - to inject (or spray) its diesel fuel directly into the cylinders. __________________ Mrs D's Briskoda: Octavia 4x4 turbo (2003), Oettinger 210, Koni Sport, MAD Sportive, Dotz Le Mans 17", Bridgestone Potenza S-03, sports interior. And a Fiesta ST (2006) for myself...

26-01-2004, 13:33	#4
devonutopia Mongreller Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ooo-ar, Oi be from Devonshire Posts: 29,204 Thanks: 58 Thanked 288 Times in 234 Posts	It is indeed a PD engine - Hence Fabia TDI is a PD100, and the vRS is a PD130. (And the PD100 can be a PD150 with not much effort )

26-01-2004, 13:34	#5
MAS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leamington spa Posts: 393 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts	Its a 1.9TDI 100bph

27-01-2004, 10:32	#9
MAS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leamington spa Posts: 393 Thanks: 1 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts	Cheers for all this info - I was planning on a oneclick generic remap from Amd but now the price has shot back up im having to think about other routes. I have though about jabba (lots and lots and lots) but after xmas its left me living on a diet of tesco value beans and mouldy wholemeal bread - thin slice at that! Have you noticed a massive increase in your insurance and fuel consumption, and what did you end up paying for your remap - did you get the 10% briskoda reduction? questions, questions, questions. Cheers mas

27-01-2004, 10:39	#10
*DGW* BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 17,044 Thanks: 46 Thanked 154 Times in 115 Posts	The following is courtesy of www.canadiandriver.com: How does the new PD system work? In a gasoline engine, a mixture of fuel and air is compressed and then ignited with an electrical spark. A diesel engine relies purely on compression to ignite the mixture. When air is compressed it heats up - ever notice how hot the pump and hose get when hand-pumping a bicycle tire or ball? The amount of compression required for ignition in a diesel engine is far greater than that used in a spark ignition engine. So upon ignition, a significantly greater force is applied to the crankshaft resulting in greater torque. The previous 1.9 litre turbo diesel engine - in fact, in most modern diesels - used a system where the fuel air mixture was introduced via a common rail. These systems generate a swirling motion of the air around the intake valves through especially designed intake ports. This motion causes faster mixture with the fuel when it is introduced and thus more complete combustion. This, in turn leaves less unburned fuel and emissions. Pumpe Duse is a new fuel management and delivery system that places a pump injector at each individual cylinder producing a finer spray for better and more efficient combustion. Instead of a pre-combustion chamber found in most diesels, fuel is injected directly into each individual combustion chamber under terrific pressure at precisely the right moment. The PD works like an overhead cam system, using cam lobes to determine the timing and amount of the spray into each cylinder. The new system reduces heat loss, results in a quieter, cleaner engine, faster cold weather starts and improved low-end torque. The PD system will be used elsewhere in the VW line-up for 2004, including a new 134-horsepower 2.0 litre diesel engine for the Passat and a 5.0 litre V10 for the Touareg giving 308 horsepower - and an astounding 555 lb. ft. of road-rippling torque. __________________ Denis 2002 Octavia 1.8T 4X4 turbo Estate - rebreathed on by Jabba ... 31.93mpg 2007 Fabia vRS - CC, ESP, Jabba rear ARB, and full leather trim by Seat Surgeons ...48.01 mpg...

27-01-2004, 19:21	#11
andy ellis Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Warrington Posts: 1,289 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Insurance did not bat an eyelid, fuel about the same or better if I have a light foot and performance is superb! __________________ Fabia TDI PD100 "Q" and driving school car. Citroen C4 Coupe 1.6hDi+EGS with disability adaptations.

27-01-2004, 19:48	#12
avantius Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've read somewhere that the common rail diesels are more efficient and evolved in terms of performance. I think the Ford use a TDCi engine. __________________ Avantius vRS Fabby (Silver)

29-01-2004, 13:41	#13
philc Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Not far from some places, but a long way from others. Posts: 3,126 Thanks: 0 Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts	Probably more evolved, as they've been around longer. The problem with common rail, is that you get variation in pressure in the rail as valves open and close. This can cause uneven fuelling. PD diesels have much better control over fuel feed pressure, as each cylinder is seperately controlled. This enables the ECU code to be written in a way that gives much tighter control over fuel pressure and timing. -or so I read somewhere Phil __________________ "A good diesel, like a good whisky, should be strong, smooth and slightly smokey"

13-10-2004, 09:27	#14
ap0gee ASZ Eternal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Leafy Chesh-shire Posts: 6,293 Thanks: 304 Thanked 306 Times in 263 Posts	As more and more manufacturers churn out common rail diesels, which are apparently less advanced and less powerful / torquey litre-for-litre than PD engines (but still better than an ordinary turbo-diesel), I kinda get the feeling that VAG have missed a trick a bit like Sony did with Betamax and Minidisc by not allowing other manufacturers to licence the technology. So just as everyone has VHS video recorders and Compact Disc music players in their homes when Betamax and Minidisc are better formats, it seems everyone but VAG is using common rail technology (developed by PSA Peugeot / Citroen I think) even though PD is 'better'. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it! __________________

13-10-2004, 09:38	#16
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,870 Thanks: 15 Thanked 86 Times in 74 Posts	Er - so what were diesels before they were either common-rail or PD? __________________ Nick

13-10-2004, 09:56	#18
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,870 Thanks: 15 Thanked 86 Times in 74 Posts	How very technical of you, Dr Z __________________ Nick

13-10-2004, 10:51	#19
lfc958 Hello New Car Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kent Posts: 4,010 Thanks: 0 Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts	My Citroen had wot looked like fuel pipe into each cylinder. Q ? if VAG chairman stated that common rail was to be used for the bigger diesels, then can anyone remember from the motor show ( Brimingham) on the display of the V10 , on the Volks stand if it WAS common rail ? __________________ Steve Hello 500 ( 2 weeks and counting)

13-10-2004, 11:05	#20
William BANNED Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 2,148 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So if we are to believe every thing said about PDs in this thread they are both more advanced and less advanced than common rail and they are both quieter and smoother and noisier and rougher than common rail . We are all much better informed now

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