Unusual ESP Intervention

EddyH · 16-01-2006, 16:31

When driving the Octavia on Sunday I was breaking hard from 'high' speed in an NSL before entering a 30. This was done whilst in a straight line and although the ABS didn't kick the ESP light flashed up. The car didn't feel to be getting out of hand at all and I wasn't doing anything I haven't done before.

I'm not that fussed about it TBH but thought it would make an interesting point for discussion and it would be nice to hear others thoughts on this.

Goochie · 16-01-2006, 16:34

Perhaps your suspension setup has had an affect of the ESP sensors? I assume the ESP is calibrated for a particular vehicle.

EddyH · 16-01-2006, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochie

Perhaps your suspension setup has had an affect of the ESP sensors? I assume the ESP is calibrated for a particular vehicle.

Not quite sure how the suspension would have effected this, however prehaps the bigger brakes played a part. It certainly slowed down quick enough.

Goochie · 16-01-2006, 16:47

I'm assuming the ESP is programmed to know how a car will ride in a skid etc.

Whilst your car was very well planted, the ESP doesnt know its modded so may have expected a "situation" that in this case would never have been there.

If you get what I mean.

EddyH · 16-01-2006, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochie

I'm assuming the ESP is programmed to know how a car will ride in a skid etc.

Whilst your car was very well planted, the ESP doesnt know its modded so may have expected a "situation" that in this case would never have been there.

If you get what I mean.

Yes that does make sense especially considering the deceleration rate in this particular instance. In other circumstances the ESP seems to let me push much further before it feels it necessary to cut in, infact it very rarely does and for that reason I'm happy to leave it switched on.

***DGW*** · 16-01-2006, 16:50

Were you braking hard enough to trigger the ABS? I ask because the ESP light comes on if the ABS system fails; and if there is a fault in the ABS system, ESP does not operate.

EddyH · 16-01-2006, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGW

Were you braking hard enough to trigger the ABS? I ask because the ESP light comes on if the ABS system fails; and if there is a fault in the ABS system, ESP does not operate.

Yes, is this something that would be logged in vagcom? I thought the ESP was part of the ABS ECU though. Have you got anymore info on this? BTW the car didn't skid at all and felt quite stable.

***DGW*** · 16-01-2006, 17:19

That info is straight out of the Owner's Manual - pages 74, 78 and 112-114 which are worth rereading. Yes, EBS-equipped cars have a specific ABS controller - mine is shown as ESP ALLRAD MK60 by VAG-COM. I would try a scan of Address 03 - ABS brakes - for starters to see if any fault has been logged.

On the 4X4 the ESP system operates in combination with the ABS, EDL and EBC. EDL wouldn't have been operating to brake individual wheels in these circumstances - and I understand that when it does the noise it makes is very noticeable. Likewise EBC wouldn't have been operating since the throttle was presumably closed while you were braking.

TKW · 16-01-2006, 17:27

I've had a couple of odd experiences. Once, under heavy braking, all four wheels locked. I assume that a freakish set of circumstances allowed the ABS computer to decide that the vehicle had stopped (or was going slow enough to allow it to let the wheels lock). ESP light didn't flash and no faults were logged.

The other time my ESP triggers (flashes and cuts engine power, doesn't brake wheels) for the wrong reasons is on a road with a severe right-handed camber on a sweeping righthand bend. If I take this bend at 40mph (it's NSL), the ESP triggers very regularly even though there's nothing wrong with the road surface. Faster or slower and it doesn't happen. Again, no faults, so its physics engine is just misunderstanding things in a specific set of circumstances

Edit: standard suspension, uprated pads, Jabba, 4x4 hatch.

EddyH · 16-01-2006, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGW

That info is straight out of the Owner's Manual - pages 74, 78 and 112-114 which are worth rereading. Yes, EBS-equipped cars have a specific ABS controller - mine is shown as ESP ALLRAD MK60 by VAG-COM. I would try a scan of Address 03 - ABS brakes - for starters to see if any fault has been logged.

On the 4X4 the ESP system operates in combination with the ABS, EDL and EBC. EDL wouldn't have been operating to brake individual wheels in these circumstances - and I understand that when it does the noise it makes is very noticeable. Likewise EBC wouldn't have been operating since the throttle was presumably closed while you were braking.

Unfortunately I don't have a user manual.

I'll check the vagcom codes.

EDL has never kicked in and I wouldn't expect it to on the 4x4. I had it on my old golf but reprogrammed the ABS ECU to disable it as it was just annoying. What's EBC and why does it only act if the throttle is in use? Is like Electronic brake distribution or am I getting mixed up?

***DGW*** · 16-01-2006, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKW

The other time my ESP triggers (flashes and cuts engine power, doesn't brake wheels) for the wrong reasons is on a road with a severe right-handed camber on a sweeping righthand bend. If I take this bend at 40mph (it's NSL), the ESP triggers very regularly even though there's nothing wrong with the road surface. Faster or slower and it doesn't happen. Again, no faults, so its physics engine is just misunderstanding things in a specific set of circumstances

Quote from Owner's Manual:

The ESP control unit is also supplied with signals which are transmitted by highly sensitive sensors. What is measured is the spinning rotary motion about the vertical axis of the vehicle, the lateral acceleration of the vehicle, the brake pressure and the steering lock.

Apart from ABS input, none of these apply in Eddy's case but they do in the situation you describe. Maybe the ESP steering angle sensor needs its zero position calibrating - and this can be done with VAG-COM. I don't know about the other sensors. But if it isn't a major problem I would live with it.

bengie · 16-01-2006, 19:21

only ever had my ESP cut in when accelerating to hard on a corner of braking to hard into/round a corner

could be down to your standard damper/lowered springs combo, if the car bounces or lifts slightly then ESP would cut in.

WW_VRS · 16-01-2006, 20:43

Fabia vRS with ESP here - it doesnt always like the yellow stripes across the road to indicate the roundabout is nearing, Bracknell after A329(M) has those bl*dy things. The tricky thing is that it is more slippery on the lines themselves and it's not a straight approach. Suppose that's kinda the braking to hard into/round a corner scenario.

Feel sorry for motorbikes though, I've seen a few have near-misses as it catches them out

Lummox · 16-01-2006, 20:47

I would think its something to do with the lateral sensor. This monitors forward and aft movement to the suspension. Get a few odd faults with these, but usually log a code to check.

EddyH · 16-01-2006, 23:33

Thanks, I'll check if any faults have been logged.

16-01-2006, 16:31	#1
EddyH Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 4,908 Members Car: Audi S8 Thanks: 41 Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts	Unusual ESP Intervention When driving the Octavia on Sunday I was breaking hard from 'high' speed in an NSL before entering a 30. This was done whilst in a straight line and although the ABS didn't kick the ESP light flashed up. The car didn't feel to be getting out of hand at all and I wasn't doing anything I haven't done before. I'm not that fussed about it TBH but thought it would make an interesting point for discussion and it would be nice to hear others thoughts on this. __________________ EddyH Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDI Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport

16-01-2006, 16:34	#2
Goochie Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 12,363 Members Car: Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention Perhaps your suspension setup has had an affect of the ESP sensors? I assume the ESP is calibrated for a particular vehicle.

16-01-2006, 16:47	#4
Goochie Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 12,363 Members Car: Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention I'm assuming the ESP is programmed to know how a car will ride in a skid etc. Whilst your car was very well planted, the ESP doesnt know its modded so may have expected a "situation" that in this case would never have been there. If you get what I mean.

16-01-2006, 16:50	#6
*DGW* BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 17,294 Members Car: Octavia 1.8T 4X4 Estate & Fabia vRS Thanks: 51 Thanked 207 Times in 156 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention Were you braking hard enough to trigger the ABS? I ask because the ESP light comes on if the ABS system fails; and if there is a fault in the ABS system, ESP does not operate. __________________ Denis 2002 Octavia 1.8T 4X4 turbo Estate - rebreathed on by Jabba ... 31.93mpg 2007 Fabia vRS - CC, ESP and full leather trim by Seat Surgeons ...48.57 mpg...

16-01-2006, 17:19	#8
*DGW* BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 17,294 Members Car: Octavia 1.8T 4X4 Estate & Fabia vRS Thanks: 51 Thanked 207 Times in 156 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention That info is straight out of the Owner's Manual - pages 74, 78 and 112-114 which are worth rereading. Yes, EBS-equipped cars have a specific ABS controller - mine is shown as ESP ALLRAD MK60 by VAG-COM. I would try a scan of Address 03 - ABS brakes - for starters to see if any fault has been logged. On the 4X4 the ESP system operates in combination with the ABS, EDL and EBC. EDL wouldn't have been operating to brake individual wheels in these circumstances - and I understand that when it does the noise it makes is very noticeable. Likewise EBC wouldn't have been operating since the throttle was presumably closed while you were braking. __________________ Denis 2002 Octavia 1.8T 4X4 turbo Estate - rebreathed on by Jabba ... 31.93mpg 2007 Fabia vRS - CC, ESP and full leather trim by Seat Surgeons ...48.57 mpg...

16-01-2006, 17:27	#9
TKW Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 968 Members Car: Thanks: 11 Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention I've had a couple of odd experiences. Once, under heavy braking, all four wheels locked. I assume that a freakish set of circumstances allowed the ABS computer to decide that the vehicle had stopped (or was going slow enough to allow it to let the wheels lock). ESP light didn't flash and no faults were logged. The other time my ESP triggers (flashes and cuts engine power, doesn't brake wheels) for the wrong reasons is on a road with a severe right-handed camber on a sweeping righthand bend. If I take this bend at 40mph (it's NSL), the ESP triggers very regularly even though there's nothing wrong with the road surface. Faster or slower and it doesn't happen. Again, no faults, so its physics engine is just misunderstanding things in a specific set of circumstances Edit: standard suspension, uprated pads, Jabba, 4x4 hatch. __________________ Octavia 4x4 Last edited by TKW; 16-01-2006 at 17:29. Reason: add information

16-01-2006, 19:21	#12
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 15,248 Members Car: 4x4 turbo estate Thanks: 17 Thanked 144 Times in 125 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention only ever had my ESP cut in when accelerating to hard on a corner of braking to hard into/round a corner could be down to your standard damper/lowered springs combo, if the car bounces or lifts slightly then ESP would cut in. __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

16-01-2006, 20:43	#13
WW_VRS Escorted Estate Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oxfordshire/Berkshire Posts: 9,869 Members Car: Ford Escort 1.6LX + Fab Estate Thanks: 46 Thanked 85 Times in 75 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention Fabia vRS with ESP here - it doesnt always like the yellow stripes across the road to indicate the roundabout is nearing, Bracknell after A329(M) has those bldy things. The tricky thing is that it is more slippery on the lines themselves and it's not a straight approach. Suppose that's kinda the braking to hard into/round a corner scenario. Feel sorry for motorbikes though, I've seen a few have near-misses as it catches them out __________________ WW --->> Project Journal (pic links in first post there) Lummox'/Ross thread on Unit18 Automotive* progress on my car: here

16-01-2006, 20:47	#14
Lummox Cupra Bush King Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 22,420 Members Car: Mk2 Golf GTi 16v and building a 20VT MK2. Images: 2 Thanks: 22 Thanked 746 Times in 626 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention I would think its something to do with the lateral sensor. This monitors forward and aft movement to the suspension. Get a few odd faults with these, but usually log a code to check. __________________ www.unit18.co.uk Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

16-01-2006, 23:33	#15
EddyH Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 4,908 Members Car: Audi S8 Thanks: 41 Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Unusual ESP Intervention Thanks, I'll check if any faults have been logged. __________________ EddyH Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDI Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport

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