brewsta

I test drove the Octavia estate 2.0 TDI this week. Previously, I also tested the 1.9 TDI 4X4 and a Volvo V50 2.0 D. Here are some observations:

I was a little disappointed with the 1.9 TDI's power. It was reasonable, but the acceleration was a little weak. I had heard other posters talking about the 2.0 TDI's superiority so I went for another test. And yes, the car is more powerful, but:

Serious turbo lag.

There. I said it. I hope no 2.0 TDI owners will get defensive, but I did not like this feeling at all. I was out on motorway and floored it and... nothing. For a couple of seconds. And then, WHOOSH, it took off. OK, eventually the power came out, but waiting and whooshing is not a great feeling for me. I repeated this test over and over. It is possible to build acceleration normally through more judicious use of the accelerator. But you can't demand an instant punch of power from the car.

Perhaps my criticism of this motor comes, in part, from the fact that I tested the Volvo 2.0D before it. I had hoped that that since they were both 2.0 diesels they would be comparable. But not even close. The Volvo motor is just fantastic. It has instant power on tap all the way up the speedo. Yet, the car is quiet and refined.

So, why don't I buy the Volvo? Well, it is a more expensive car (but I found a deal to make them comparable). The two big problems with the Volvo are it is much smaller, with almost no extra storage, and the insurance rates are a fair bit higher (I live in Prague, by the way). The other main factor that makes me keep the less practical Volvo in consideration -- terrifically comfortable seats -- way better than Octavia.

I just thought I'd put this out there and see what other's think.

JamLCFC

I hear what you say........

I also have the 2.0 Tdi on a demo at the moment and whilst i know that this problem is there i have not felt it at all unless the missus is driving.

A bit odd you say.....i know but i think i understand why. I drive a lot higher in the rev range than the missus does. This comes from riding bikes and the wonderful IAM training (for the bike) that i am having. I think that because of being higher in the range before changing gear this means that the turbo is well kicked in and your constantly driving with it `on`. Now dont get me wrong this is not floot to the floor gear changing this is just longer in the rev range before changing ear.

As for motorway driving i have not felt this at all from 80mph ,in 6th, onwards .

All in all in comparison to my 1.9 tdi Golf (130bhp) i would say it feels slower on the 0-60 side but a lot sweeter and torquier(?) in the higher gears .

I love it!

Johnnyc

Yes it's a learning curve. It's all about keeping the revs up around 2,500 where the peak torque is as opposed to 1,900 rpm in the 1.9. The car isnt really any noiser at these higher revs and this is where its most economical. This means changing into 3rd at 30, into 4th at 40, into 5th at about 50-55 and into 6th at 70. I still get lazy and forget by trying to acclerate quickly from about 30 mph in 4th and then have to wait an age for the turbo to wind up.

__________________
Johnny

"Americans have different ways of saying things. They say "elevator", we say "lift" ... they say "President", we say "stupid psychopathic git."

agent006

I had a V50 2.0d on hire a while back. I found it much slower than my octavia 2.0tdi and also could only get 35mpg on the motorway.

__________________
Posted using 100% recylced electrons.

G.K.

I totally agree with your findings, I find it a bit of a nuisance to say the least.
One observation I have discovered is that the problem is much more pronounced in hotter weather, this makes the engine annoyingly athsmatic!!.
Looked at the Volvo also, but chose the Octy 2 Estate which, apart from flimsy trim and rattles is a top buy.

ScoobyChris

This is an interesting thread as I found the 2.0 TDI power delivery much smoother and more linear than the all or nothing 1.9 I had before, but the test route I took involved mostly Somerset's windy and twisty roads so I was always on the power... Not as quick as the Mondeo though

My RoSPA observer replaced his X-trail with a Volvo XC-70 with the 2.4D lump and that was a strange car to ride in. So comfortable and cut off from the outside world and then you look down at the speedo

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

gillywibble

I had a 2.2 Hdi Peugeot 607 before the Octy (yes, I know) and the turbo lag in that was significantly more pronounced. You have to use the gears more in the Octy, which I suppose explains why there are six, but I think it is more of a drivers car.

__________________


I drink, therefore I spam.

brewsta

Good feedback. I only had the test car for 90 minutes and did not think to play around with the revs. One interesting point -- the interior of the Octavia actually had more of a quality feeling than the Volvo. Softer plastics and rubber. The Volvo was all hard plastic, cheap feeling turn signal stalk. I liked some of the design points in the Octavia more too -- better, more creative vent design, etc. But this goes against what I've heard about cheap quality/rattles in the Octavia. But these are things that probably reveal themselves over time.

gamichea

Torque may peak at 2500 but the curve is virtually flat from 1750.

Avacado Jam Tin

Can't comment on the Volvo as I have not driven one. Previous Ibiza was 1.9TDi 130, which was different to my current 2.0TDi 140. I've never found a problem with turbo lag. Plenty of forward vision, planning, and anticipation means I'm usually in the correct gear. My works Mazda 2.0 TDi 121, is a bugger for turbo lag, and the gearbox stinks too !

Gave the Octy is first decent run out last weekend over to the Lake District. Motorway and A roads all dispatched with ease, comfort and 57.9mpg.

Took petrol head brother inlaw out on Saturday, and he was gob smacked with the rear seat space, refinement, quietness, and couldn't believe we were dawdling around at 30-40 mph in 5th @ around 1200rpm and there was still loads of power available even at those low revs. Turbo lag ? ........... not a problem.

__________________
Octavia 2.0TDi Elegance, Metallic Sahara Biege, Full Leather, 17" Alloys, Front Parking Sensors.

Sooty

Apart from in first gear where the lag is very noticeable and must kill the 0-60 time of the 2.0TDi, you can learn to drive it so that it is on full boost all the time.

I had a 1.9DSG as a courtesy car last time mine went in for a service, and it was painfully slow abouve 60mph.

The Mondeo TDCi (and Volvo 2.0D) is a decent car and a good engine. I ran one for 112k miles before I got the Octy so know them inside out. The Skoda doesn't feel as fast to 60, but thats because the shorter gearing on the Mondeo in 1st and 2nd means you are flying through the gears. Mid-range the Skoda is faster and although it has less torque on paper, it is punchier than the Mondy.

At the top end (above 110mph) the Mondeo is definitely faster. And the handling of the Mondeo is still best in class so will probably be faster on the country lanes you talk about, due to this. But the Skoda can keep up - you just need more balls to get the power on quicker and harder out of the bends.

Oh, and the Mondeo averaged around 41mpg too the Octy's 46mpg.

__________________
2005 Storm Blue metallic Octavia Ambiente 2.0TDi
1994 Diamond Black BMW 540i
1991 Pacific Blue Lotus Elan SE
1989 Red MR2 T-bar & 1987 Mica Blue MR2 T-bar turbo
1984 Blue Astra 1200S

Johnnyc

That's true but from my experience you need to keep the engine bubbling over at just over 2,000 rpm or more to ensure you have the torque on tap to accelerate quickly if required.

__________________
Johnny

"Americans have different ways of saying things. They say "elevator", we say "lift" ... they say "President", we say "stupid psychopathic git."

Brooner

it has been my experience with VW's PD engines that they have all or nothing power delivery. both the 1.9 130hp and the 2.0 140hp engines give a huge dollop of power about 2000rpm, which took a bit of getting used to, although the 1.9 100hp not so snatchy.
(i should point out, that these experiences have been through occasional shots of cars, and not prolonged exposure. also i tend to drive petrol, and my the most exposure i have had to diesel power is a nissan navara pickup, mitsu shogun TD, Case CX105 and a John Deere 6400 so im sure someone will tell me my opinion is wrong!!)

i think with these characterisitcs, the 170hp version of the 2.0 TDi would be a scary tyre muncher.......

Wakasashi

Interesting observations. I'm still trying to test drive the Octy 2.0 TDi (see Test Drive thread) so I'll be very keen to see how I get on. I've had 2 x Audi A4 1.9 TDi diesels (110 & 130bhp) and never noticed much in the way of lag. I currently drive a BMW 320d and it certainly doesn't suffer any lag.

Perhaps some of this is driving style as has been previously mooted.
I have driven diesels for some years now and I also ride a large capacity motorbike. I'm probably used to exploiting the torque available and prefer this style of driving as opposed to revving an engine to the redline (I started out on 1960's 'vintage' British motorbikes).

Dr Zoidberg

Hmmm , I've been reading this thread with interest , and having driven mine for about 3.5k miles so far Ithought I'd add my 2p's worth.

If you accellerate in any gear from very low revs 1k for example there are two noticable steps in accelleration. Firstly at around 1800rpm as the turbo spins up , then again at about 2500 rpm there is another lesser but noticable jump.

If you find a nice straight road and bimble along in second at about 1300rpm and then press the accellerator to a constant middling level you should feel this.

It's an inevitable effect of a turbocharged engine that when it's not spinning that you will get less power and is why that some cars such as the BMW 535D have two turbo chargers. A smaller one that spins up quickly at very low revs and a larger one that only comes into full effect at higher revs for maximum power.

Anyway , getting back to the octavia , is this really a problem?
The same thing was present on my Mk1 110bhp TDI and when crawling around in traffic I used to regularly drive it "off boost" keeping the revs below 1800. The same thing is possible in the Mk2 and at this speed you probably have a very similar amount of power and torque.

The difference is that when the turbo is in full effect on the 2.0TDI you have so much more grunt available that you notice the difference more.

It is fair to say that if you are crawling around at 14-1500 rpm and want to suddenly accellerate you will get a noticable pause before the car takes off , such as you might get as you gently approach a junction or island and see a gap that you want to make use of , or if you are in queuing traffic that suddenly speeds up.

When pulling off from a junction in first it's not really a problem as you generally slip the clutch a bit and by the time it's fully engaged you are about 1800 rpm if you are doing a brisk start.

At higher speeds though and certainly on the motorway it's not an issue at all.
If I drop down much below 60mph then I'll change down from 6th to be able to accellerate cleanly away but at normal 70mph-ish cruising speed there is no hesitation at all if you want to overtake. A quick push of the pedal gets you up to 90 in no time at all.

The same can be said in lower gears as long as you are over 1800rpm. There just isn't any problem with lag.

I think though that because the engine is so torquey it's easy to be fooled into changing up a gear too early and dropping the revs too far. It's not a fault of the car , just something that you need to drive accordingly.

__________________
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

Brooner

The system is a tad more clever than that, the small turbo also feeds the larger turbo, helping it spool up quicker, then within a certain rev range, both turbos provide boost.
The kickdown accelleration times for the 535D are scary, they are into Porsche 911 / Ferrari territory.......mind you, so is the VW Tourag V10 TDI.........

Incidentally, GM have been developing a similar system on the 1.9CDTi.
They were apparently trying to sucker-in fast exotica on the Autobahn in the Vectra test mule they were developing the engine in........

Wakasashi

Autocar reported that Vauxhall had developed a 200+bhp twin-turbo diesel Vectra and would probably sell it for around £24,000.

I believe this is not too far away from the price of the Mazda 6 twin-turbo (petrol).