Mechanically Identical??

harrysprout · 23-04-2008, 11:29

So! What's the difference between the Golf GTI and Octy VRS under the skin?
I'm sure I heard Needel say that the steering racks where different on the cars, when he did that stupid head to head on 5th gear. Any other bits that we are not aware of??

Babs · 23-04-2008, 11:51

The Octy is longer.

HTH

harrysprout · 23-04-2008, 11:55

That accounts for the inferior handling. But what about the proper engineering??

FocusZtec · 23-04-2008, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrysprout

That accounts for the inferior handling. But what about the proper engineering??

No, thats probably more to do with the different suspension setup.

I think the dampers, springs and arb's are different.

**VRStu** · 23-04-2008, 12:31

What do you mean by proper engineering?

The Golf, LEON Octy II and several others all share the common VAG A5 platform.

Engines are shared thoughout the group as ar gearboxes.

Much of the switchgear is the same as are ancilliaries such as ABS and Electronics.

harrysprout · 23-04-2008, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRStu

What do you mean by proper engineering?

The Golf, LEON Octy II and several others all share the common VAG A5 platform.

Engines are shared thoughout the group as ar gearboxes.

Much of the switchgear is the same as are ancilliaries such as ABS and

Electronics.

The mechanicals, I would class the steering rack as quite significant, maybe it has different gearing which could make it slower to respond to input? Is this true. Do the cars differ in this area? When you say Platform, does this include suspension components? if the springs and dampers are different then this is not the case, they are not the same.

Babs · 23-04-2008, 12:46

The boot would make it marginally heavier, so hence marginally less responsive?

**VRStu** · 23-04-2008, 12:51

I didn't say Chassis I said Platform - Much like the Mazda 121 used to be almost identical to the Ford Fiesta or that the VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy and SEAT Alhambra are very similar.

I'm not sure the Steering rack is different. THinking back the problems there were with Steering racks the Golf suffered as well as the Octy II.

Springs and Dampers may vary as chassis weights will vary. It's not for sure though. Looking at part numbers some GTi have got the same as vRS but some haven't.

billybskoda · 23-04-2008, 13:19

I drove a golf the other day as a courtesy car. I'd have refused to drive it if it hadnt had stickers on the outside telling people it wasnt mine, trim qulaity appalling and what a pile of stinky stuff, my rs has a far better qulaity feel to it.

So, I guess the difference is, I'm happy to own a Skoda, wouldnt contemplate owing a golf

rsbspt · 23-04-2008, 13:31

Never driven a Golf GTI, but my guess is the springs and dampers are different from the vRS and from the Leon FR (which I have driven). The Leon is bone-hard in the ride department.

I know the Leon Cupra has several unique front suspension components, in alloy rather than steel to reduce unsprung weight. The Golf certainly sits lower than the vRS (on OEM springs) and test reports suggest the ride is more compliant.

harrysprout · 23-04-2008, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRStu

I didn't say Chassis I said Platform - Much like the Mazda 121 used to be almost identical to the Ford Fiesta or that the VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy and SEAT Alhambra are very similar.

I'm not sure the Steering rack is different. THinking back the problems there were with Steering racks the Golf suffered as well as the Octy II.

Springs and Dampers may vary as chassis weights will vary. It's not for sure though. Looking at part numbers some GTi have got the same as vRS but some haven't.

I know, I edited it when I saw my mistake. What I am driving at, is maybe VW don't want the octy to outperform the GTI dynamically. Maybe they chuck the odd part the CZ way that does not quite cut the mustard. Not that I believe in conspiracy theories.

**VRStu** · 23-04-2008, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrysprout

I know, I edited it when I saw my mistake. What I am driving at, is maybe VW don't want the octy to outperform the GTI dynamically. Maybe they chuck the odd part the CZ way that does not quite cut the mustard. Not that I believe in conspiracy theories.

Far from it the cars are very alike except really for cosmetics associated with styling differences. The are obvious specification changes as well.

Look up the Climatronic Mod for an example.

Lummox · 23-04-2008, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsbspt

I know the Leon Cupra has several unique front suspension components, in alloy rather than steel to reduce unsprung weight. The Golf certainly sits lower than the vRS (on OEM springs) and test reports suggest the ride is more compliant.

The alloy suspension components are from the 3C Passat, these are just a later development of the original A5 platform.

gregozedobe · 23-04-2008, 15:26

I test drove a Golf GTI and an Octy vRS (2.0 TFSI ) several times while deciding which one I wanted to buy.

They felt quite different to drive. The GTI had a more nervous, quicker responsive feel to the steering and engine, with louder induction and exhaust, and a firmer ride. I thought that the GTI was set up to "feel" faster and more responsive even though it wasn't really much different. The Octy was much more relaxing to drive when pootling around, but the GTI was better when pushing a bit harder, it seemed to "encourage" you to drive harder.

Interestingly, the GTI had 17" wheels, while the Octy had 18", but the suspension tune would lead you to believe it was the other way around.

wega3k · 23-04-2008, 15:59

I was under the impression that the Golf GTI had a different steering rack to other Golfs.

Lummox · 23-04-2008, 16:07

As far as I know its just programmed differently.

FocusZtec · 23-04-2008, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lummox

As far as I know its just programmed differently.

Interesting. So I guess the obvious next question is - is it possible to reprogram the VRS one similarly?

Lee

Tom_vRS · 23-04-2008, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by FocusZtec

Interesting. So I guess the obvious next question is - is it possible to reprogram the VRS one similarly?

Lee

Beat me to it Lee!!!

Lummox · 23-04-2008, 16:17

Yes I would think so given the correct equipment. Not sure if it would do any good though.

Organist · 23-04-2008, 16:47

I had a hire Golf 1.6 from Hertz the other day and thought that the instruments glowing bright RED were naff and rather offputting at night. I am used to the gentle Skoda green glow. I was less than impressed with the engine which was grossly underpowered, and really struggled to haul the Golf about.

23-04-2008, 11:29	#1
harrysprout Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mechanically Identical?? So! What's the difference between the Golf GTI and Octy VRS under the skin? I'm sure I heard Needel say that the steering racks where different on the cars, when he did that stupid head to head on 5th gear. Any other bits that we are not aware of??

23-04-2008, 11:51	#2
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 3,864 Thanks: 139 Thanked 119 Times in 106 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? The Octy is longer. HTH __________________ - Andrew

23-04-2008, 11:55	#3
harrysprout Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? That accounts for the inferior handling. But what about the proper engineering??

23-04-2008, 12:31	#5
VRStu Briskoda Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 19,815 Thanks: 90 Thanked 859 Times in 774 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? What do you mean by proper engineering? The Golf, LEON Octy II and several others all share the common VAG A5 platform. Engines are shared thoughout the group as ar gearboxes. Much of the switchgear is the same as are ancilliaries such as ABS and Electronics. __________________ Stu - Freedom Pimp Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2007 Octavia vRS, Race Blue, Xenons, Columbus Navigation, Rear Parking Sensors, Maxi Dot, Light Assist, Jumbo Box, 18" Alloys, Stu's Cruise Control & OEM Integrated Bluetooth Telephone. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - 2002 Lotus Elise RaceTech, Gunmetal, Radio, Carpet Mats.

23-04-2008, 12:46	#7
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 3,864 Thanks: 139 Thanked 119 Times in 106 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? The boot would make it marginally heavier, so hence marginally less responsive? __________________ - Andrew

23-04-2008, 12:51	#8
VRStu Briskoda Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 19,815 Thanks: 90 Thanked 859 Times in 774 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? I didn't say Chassis I said Platform - Much like the Mazda 121 used to be almost identical to the Ford Fiesta or that the VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy and SEAT Alhambra are very similar. I'm not sure the Steering rack is different. THinking back the problems there were with Steering racks the Golf suffered as well as the Octy II. Springs and Dampers may vary as chassis weights will vary. It's not for sure though. Looking at part numbers some GTi have got the same as vRS but some haven't. __________________ Stu - Freedom Pimp Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2007 Octavia vRS, Race Blue, Xenons, Columbus Navigation, Rear Parking Sensors, Maxi Dot, Light Assist, Jumbo Box, 18" Alloys, Stu's Cruise Control & OEM Integrated Bluetooth Telephone. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - 2002 Lotus Elise RaceTech, Gunmetal, Radio, Carpet Mats.

23-04-2008, 13:19	#9
billybskoda V8 Interceptor Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: south coast great britain Posts: 189 Thanks: 3 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? I drove a golf the other day as a courtesy car. I'd have refused to drive it if it hadnt had stickers on the outside telling people it wasnt mine, trim qulaity appalling and what a pile of stinky stuff, my rs has a far better qulaity feel to it. So, I guess the difference is, I'm happy to own a Skoda, wouldnt contemplate owing a golf __________________ Mk2 octy rs estate, black magic, 18s, sunset glass, variable boot floor, maniac behind the wheel... Previous: Rapid 130 Coupe in white Mk1 stage 1 magic Octy Vrs Hatch Mk1 std Furby 1.2

23-04-2008, 13:31	#10
rsbspt Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South East England Posts: 544 Thanks: 4 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? Never driven a Golf GTI, but my guess is the springs and dampers are different from the vRS and from the Leon FR (which I have driven). The Leon is bone-hard in the ride department. I know the Leon Cupra has several unique front suspension components, in alloy rather than steel to reduce unsprung weight. The Golf certainly sits lower than the vRS (on OEM springs) and test reports suggest the ride is more compliant. __________________ Phil Thomas Then: Red Fabia vRS: Not quite standard. Now: White Octavia vRS: Eibachs/FSDs - Milotec B pillars - Neuspeed shifter (thanx Stu!).

23-04-2008, 15:26	#14
gregozedobe Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 108 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? I test drove a Golf GTI and an Octy vRS (2.0 TFSI ) several times while deciding which one I wanted to buy. They felt quite different to drive. The GTI had a more nervous, quicker responsive feel to the steering and engine, with louder induction and exhaust, and a firmer ride. I thought that the GTI was set up to "feel" faster and more responsive even though it wasn't really much different. The Octy was much more relaxing to drive when pootling around, but the GTI was better when pushing a bit harder, it seemed to "encourage" you to drive harder. Interestingly, the GTI had 17" wheels, while the Octy had 18", but the suspension tune would lead you to believe it was the other way around. __________________ Sprint Yellow 2008 Octavia II RS Wagon 2.0TFSI manual (Xenons) White 2006 VW Transporter LWB van 2.5 TDI manual (camper)

23-04-2008, 15:59	#15
wega3k Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sheffield Posts: 239 Thanks: 10 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? I was under the impression that the Golf GTI had a different steering rack to other Golfs.

23-04-2008, 16:07	#16
Lummox Hairy Yeti Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 21,403 Thanks: 19 Thanked 573 Times in 501 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? As far as I know its just programmed differently. __________________ Unit 18 now open Servicing, repairs, modifications you name it we do it. Cupra console bushes at special price, PM for a very competitive quote.

23-04-2008, 16:17	#19
Lummox Hairy Yeti Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Newport Pagnell Posts: 21,403 Thanks: 19 Thanked 573 Times in 501 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? Yes I would think so given the correct equipment. Not sure if it would do any good though. __________________ Unit 18 now open Servicing, repairs, modifications you name it we do it. Cupra console bushes at special price, PM for a very competitive quote.

23-04-2008, 16:47	#20
Organist Briskodian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Southampton, England Posts: 692 Thanks: 9 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Mechanically Identical?? I had a hire Golf 1.6 from Hertz the other day and thought that the instruments glowing bright RED were naff and rather offputting at night. I am used to the gentle Skoda green glow. I was less than impressed with the engine which was grossly underpowered, and really struggled to haul the Golf about.

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