tuning box yes or no????

vrstdi · 03-07-2007, 19:18

anyone any thoughts or expeiriences with tuning boxes ?? have been thinking about putting one on my new vrs 170 tdi. but im just afraid to feck up the engine???

dstev2000 · 03-07-2007, 20:10

There are many threads on here about tuning boxes, if you do a search you should turn up a wealth of knowledge.

The main problem with a tuning box on the vRS TDI will be the particulate filter and there are a few reported problems with it already. The tuning box overfuels the engine meaning more BHP but the downside is the engine produces more soot which puts the DPF under added strain.

Are you dissatisfied with the performance? If the car is new the engine will be tight and give the impression of being somewhat gutless.

If this is the case I would rack up a good few thousand miles and then some before thinking about tuning boxes or remaps etc.

dcrd · 04-07-2007, 10:51

Before i get eaten alive, this is just my opinion people.

I was under the impression that tuning boxes did more than simply overfuel the engine. If that were the case then you could just buy one of the £25 tuning chips from eBay and get the same result. Incidentally has anyone ever tried one of those:

eBay.co.uk: TDI TUNING Chip Box +38 BHP for Skoda Fabia, Octavia (item 150135151034 end time 22-Jul-07 12:47:44 BST)

The companies i spoke to when i was thinking about one said the main thing they do is the same as a remap, modify what the ecu is doing to improve things that way. (Spider diesel tuning seemed to be the most knowledgeable) The advantage they have over remaps is that they can be removed with no trace, so for people still under warranty or those with a company car they would seem ideal.

Octavia5 · 04-07-2007, 11:02

There are 2 different types of Tuning Box being sold.

1. Is the cheap £25 - £50 Ebay box which has a 2 pin connector and simply contains a resister which simply tricks the ECU into over-fuleing and can cause black smoke and Turbo sooting.

2. Is the intelligent processor type from the likes of Dragon which remaps the ECU to provide more controlled fueling and a better driving experience, this type typically costs £200++. This type of box always has 2 extra wires which must be connected to the battery to power the processor, a simple way to spot the difference is to look at the picture of the box to see if it shows these extra wires and a large round connector.

A type 2 box is cheaper than a remap, easily removed for warren tee work but will never be as effective as a proper dyno remap tuned to your specific car - though this will cost you a lot more cash.

The choice as ever is yours

NeilS · 04-07-2007, 11:21

I agree with dstev2000, wait and see how much it loosens up because the car's perormance will improve noticeably as it runs in. This can take 10,000 miles or more in my experience!

The other benefit to waiting is that the tuners will have more experience of working on the 170bhp DPF engines as VAG put them in more Audis, Seats, VWs. They'll either crack the DPF problem completely or limit the fuelling (and power gains) so it isn't a problem.

Superchips offer a modest 27bhp increase (31bhp on the PD130) on the 170bhp engine and they also include a supplementary warranty to cover you if their chip causes any damage. I don't think their finished product is as highly regarded as other leading re-mappers but the guarantee might be useful if they do "feck your engine"

I know somebody who is about to fit one of these ebay boxes (£38 from Germany inc shipping!) to his year old Seat Altea 1.9PD - he would have done earlier but he was going on a driving holiday to Italy and didn't want to risk having the engine blow up so far from home. Far better blow your engine up back home eh?

dstev2000 · 04-07-2007, 14:21

The bottom line with any tuning box is it overfuels the engine, how else do you gain power when the boost pressures aren't being altered?

The £300+ boxes do it in a slightly more refined way than a resistor but the principle is the same.

s3akr · 05-07-2007, 00:35

On a compay car I'd use one. If it were my own car I'd have Revo or Bluefin so it can be turned off for any dealer visits. Proper remaps take into account so much more than a tuning box can. Tuning boxes by comparison are pretty crude and simply fool the ECU into chucking more fuel through, relying on the ECU to adjust timing as required from the standard maps - so I have been told. Maybe someone else could add more to this as I'm only repeating what I was told when I looked to remap a Pug 406 (which has gone now - thankfully!)

**VRStu** · 05-07-2007, 08:13

The so called Ressistor Tuning Boxes (Evry Mod) increase the fueling by fooling the Fuel Return Temperature Sensor signal back to the ECU.

The so called Digital Tuning Boxes do only over fuel in a similar manner as the cheaper resistor based ones, however they deliver it in a more measured way. The Digital Box will read, interpret and modify the pulse signal to the injectors thus increasing the fueling.

A remap will not only increase fueling but will increase boost pressure and thus the metered air.

Octygone · 05-07-2007, 08:20

For those interested this is what a dragon digital tuning box does to a pd 130 engine

dstev2000 · 05-07-2007, 17:08

I had a brief fling with a Dragon box on a PD130 and it made a hell of a difference, it came off due to repeat apperances of the CEL.

T'was very smokey as well, I dread to think what it would have done to a DPF.

It gave my Boss's A6 2.7TDI a run for it's money though

bahnstormer vrs · 05-07-2007, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstev2000

I had a brief fling with a Dragon box on a PD130 and it made a hell of a difference, it came off due to repeat apperances of the CEL.

T'was very smokey as well, I dread to think what it would have done to a DPF.

It gave my Boss's A6 2.7TDI a run for it's money though

QED - that just shows why Tuning Box & similar should be avoided on today's engines.

If you want better performance - do a proper job and get a fell re-map.

dstev2000 · 05-07-2007, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by bahnstormer vrs

QED - that just shows why Tuning Box & similar should be avoided on today's engines.

If you want better performance - do a proper job and get a fell re-map.

Agreed, I learnt the hard way when my poor Octavia was coughing and spluttering in a cloud of black smoke one morning, I really thought I had fooked it big time

The digi box is still in my cupboard gathering dust.

vrstdi · 06-07-2007, 22:11

iv heard from a local remap agent that he has remapped a few 170s for skoda, he also says the remap cant be detected unless they drive the car!! could any of this be true. one thing is for certain the tuning box is out now so thanks to all for youre input on that

.

s3akr · 07-07-2007, 21:35

I don't think Revo or AMD One Click or Superchips Bluefin are available for the TDi 170 which is a shame as these can be switched "off" for visits to the dealer via a device that you plug into the diags port (I use one on the Leon). Dealers software can't detect a remap but as was said, if they drive it, they'll know. Some dealers are sympathetic to remaps and will ignore them - so I have been told!

I'd wait for one of the above listed products myself as they'll be along pretty soon. Ring 'em and ask 'em chap. I've used Revo twice before and I like it!

**VRStu** · 08-07-2007, 19:13

REVO have been working on a solution for some time, I've seen their test Passat PD170.

I think Superchips have a product but not sure if it's bluefin.

s3akr · 08-07-2007, 22:31

Superchips do have a product for sure. Its just not the Bluefin product with the ability to switch between stock and performance modes.

03-07-2007, 19:18	#1
vrstdi Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 Members Car: vrs 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	tuning box yes or no???? anyone any thoughts or expeiriences with tuning boxes ?? have been thinking about putting one on my new vrs 170 tdi. but im just afraid to feck up the engine???

03-07-2007, 20:10	#2
dstev2000 Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Back in the Green Posts: 4,036 Members Car: 2 Octavia II's, an L&K combi and a vRS hatch. Thanks: 48 Thanked 168 Times in 153 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? There are many threads on here about tuning boxes, if you do a search you should turn up a wealth of knowledge. The main problem with a tuning box on the vRS TDI will be the particulate filter and there are a few reported problems with it already. The tuning box overfuels the engine meaning more BHP but the downside is the engine produces more soot which puts the DPF under added strain. Are you dissatisfied with the performance? If the car is new the engine will be tight and give the impression of being somewhat gutless. If this is the case I would rack up a good few thousand miles and then some before thinking about tuning boxes or remaps etc. __________________ MY08 L&K: Black-Estate-Diesel-Sunset Glass-MFD2-W8 Interior light-Colour coded door strips-LED sidelights and Puddle lights-VAG-COM fettled-Lovely! SWMBO's: MY08 vRS TDI - Standard

04-07-2007, 10:51	#3
dcrd Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 56 Members Car: 2.0 Octavia estate l&k DSG Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: tuning box yes or no???? Before i get eaten alive, this is just my opinion people. I was under the impression that tuning boxes did more than simply overfuel the engine. If that were the case then you could just buy one of the £25 tuning chips from eBay and get the same result. Incidentally has anyone ever tried one of those: eBay.co.uk: TDI TUNING Chip Box +38 BHP for Skoda Fabia, Octavia (item 150135151034 end time 22-Jul-07 12:47:44 BST) The companies i spoke to when i was thinking about one said the main thing they do is the same as a remap, modify what the ecu is doing to improve things that way. (Spider diesel tuning seemed to be the most knowledgeable) The advantage they have over remaps is that they can be removed with no trace, so for people still under warranty or those with a company car they would seem ideal.

04-07-2007, 11:02	#4
Octavia5 Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wellingborough, Northants Posts: 296 Members Car: Octavia Elegance 2.0TDI DSG Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? There are 2 different types of Tuning Box being sold. 1. Is the cheap £25 - £50 Ebay box which has a 2 pin connector and simply contains a resister which simply tricks the ECU into over-fuleing and can cause black smoke and Turbo sooting. 2. Is the intelligent processor type from the likes of Dragon which remaps the ECU to provide more controlled fueling and a better driving experience, this type typically costs £200++. This type of box always has 2 extra wires which must be connected to the battery to power the processor, a simple way to spot the difference is to look at the picture of the box to see if it shows these extra wires and a large round connector. A type 2 box is cheaper than a remap, easily removed for warren tee work but will never be as effective as a proper dyno remap tuned to your specific car - though this will cost you a lot more cash. The choice as ever is yours __________________ '06 Octavia Elegance 2.0TDI DSG - Diamond Silver

04-07-2007, 11:21	#5
NeilS Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South East Berkshire Posts: 85 Members Car: Octavia vRS TFSi Estate Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? I agree with dstev2000, wait and see how much it loosens up because the car's perormance will improve noticeably as it runs in. This can take 10,000 miles or more in my experience! The other benefit to waiting is that the tuners will have more experience of working on the 170bhp DPF engines as VAG put them in more Audis, Seats, VWs. They'll either crack the DPF problem completely or limit the fuelling (and power gains) so it isn't a problem. Superchips offer a modest 27bhp increase (31bhp on the PD130) on the 170bhp engine and they also include a supplementary warranty to cover you if their chip causes any damage. I don't think their finished product is as highly regarded as other leading re-mappers but the guarantee might be useful if they do "feck your engine" I know somebody who is about to fit one of these ebay boxes (£38 from Germany inc shipping!) to his year old Seat Altea 1.9PD - he would have done earlier but he was going on a driving holiday to Italy and didn't want to risk having the engine blow up so far from home. Far better blow your engine up back home eh?

04-07-2007, 14:21	#6
dstev2000 Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Back in the Green Posts: 4,036 Members Car: 2 Octavia II's, an L&K combi and a vRS hatch. Thanks: 48 Thanked 168 Times in 153 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? The bottom line with any tuning box is it overfuels the engine, how else do you gain power when the boost pressures aren't being altered? The £300+ boxes do it in a slightly more refined way than a resistor but the principle is the same. __________________ MY08 L&K: Black-Estate-Diesel-Sunset Glass-MFD2-W8 Interior light-Colour coded door strips-LED sidelights and Puddle lights-VAG-COM fettled-Lovely! SWMBO's: MY08 vRS TDI - Standard

05-07-2007, 00:35	#7
s3akr Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colchester, Essex Posts: 214 Members Car: Leon FR TDI 150 (Revo'd) + Octavia II VRS on order Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? On a compay car I'd use one. If it were my own car I'd have Revo or Bluefin so it can be turned off for any dealer visits. Proper remaps take into account so much more than a tuning box can. Tuning boxes by comparison are pretty crude and simply fool the ECU into chucking more fuel through, relying on the ECU to adjust timing as required from the standard maps - so I have been told. Maybe someone else could add more to this as I'm only repeating what I was told when I looked to remap a Pug 406 (which has gone now - thankfully!) __________________ PREVIOUS VW GROUP MOTORS :- 2001 Audi S3 (Revo, N75J, Samco Hoses, Forge DV006), Golf V5 (170bhp), MkII Golf GTi 8v. CURRENT CARS :- Octavia VRs TFSi - 18", dual zone climate, coolbox/armrest, rear parking sensors. VRSTU Cruise, Maxidot and Bluetooth - need FSD's/Revo/Quickshift/Intake. Leon FR TDi 150 (Revo, Allards clutch plate, 18" RS6's).

05-07-2007, 08:13	#8
VRStu Txt Spk Police Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,856 Members Car: Audi S3 Thanks: 145 Thanked 999 Times in 895 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? The so called Ressistor Tuning Boxes (Evry Mod) increase the fueling by fooling the Fuel Return Temperature Sensor signal back to the ECU. The so called Digital Tuning Boxes do only over fuel in a similar manner as the cheaper resistor based ones, however they deliver it in a more measured way. The Digital Box will read, interpret and modify the pulse signal to the injectors thus increasing the fueling. A remap will not only increase fueling but will increase boost pressure and thus the metered air. __________________ Stu Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2008 Audi S3 - Ibis White, Black Optics Pack, Privacy Glass, Auto Bi Xenon Headlights, Rain Sensing Wipers, Bose Sound System, Ipod Prep, GSM Phone Prep, Flat Bottom Multi Function Steering Wheel, Electric Folding Mirrors, Acoustic Parking, Cruise Control, Interior Light Pack, Non Smokers Pack. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - A Patio

05-07-2007, 08:20	#9
Octygone Old Git Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,827 Members Car: Octavia II tdi ..for now Thanks: 182 Thanked 116 Times in 75 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? For those interested this is what a dragon digital tuning box does to a pd 130 engine __________________

05-07-2007, 17:08	#10
dstev2000 Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Back in the Green Posts: 4,036 Members Car: 2 Octavia II's, an L&K combi and a vRS hatch. Thanks: 48 Thanked 168 Times in 153 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? I had a brief fling with a Dragon box on a PD130 and it made a hell of a difference, it came off due to repeat apperances of the CEL. T'was very smokey as well, I dread to think what it would have done to a DPF. It gave my Boss's A6 2.7TDI a run for it's money though __________________ MY08 L&K: Black-Estate-Diesel-Sunset Glass-MFD2-W8 Interior light-Colour coded door strips-LED sidelights and Puddle lights-VAG-COM fettled-Lovely! SWMBO's: MY08 vRS TDI - Standard

06-07-2007, 22:11	#13
vrstdi Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 Members Car: vrs 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? iv heard from a local remap agent that he has remapped a few 170s for skoda, he also says the remap cant be detected unless they drive the car!! could any of this be true. one thing is for certain the tuning box is out now so thanks to all for youre input on that .

07-07-2007, 21:35	#14
s3akr Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colchester, Essex Posts: 214 Members Car: Leon FR TDI 150 (Revo'd) + Octavia II VRS on order Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? I don't think Revo or AMD One Click or Superchips Bluefin are available for the TDi 170 which is a shame as these can be switched "off" for visits to the dealer via a device that you plug into the diags port (I use one on the Leon). Dealers software can't detect a remap but as was said, if they drive it, they'll know. Some dealers are sympathetic to remaps and will ignore them - so I have been told! I'd wait for one of the above listed products myself as they'll be along pretty soon. Ring 'em and ask 'em chap. I've used Revo twice before and I like it! __________________ PREVIOUS VW GROUP MOTORS :- 2001 Audi S3 (Revo, N75J, Samco Hoses, Forge DV006), Golf V5 (170bhp), MkII Golf GTi 8v. CURRENT CARS :- Octavia VRs TFSi - 18", dual zone climate, coolbox/armrest, rear parking sensors. VRSTU Cruise, Maxidot and Bluetooth - need FSD's/Revo/Quickshift/Intake. Leon FR TDi 150 (Revo, Allards clutch plate, 18" RS6's).

08-07-2007, 19:13	#15
VRStu Txt Spk Police Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,856 Members Car: Audi S3 Thanks: 145 Thanked 999 Times in 895 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? REVO have been working on a solution for some time, I've seen their test Passat PD170. I think Superchips have a product but not sure if it's bluefin. __________________ Stu Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2008 Audi S3 - Ibis White, Black Optics Pack, Privacy Glass, Auto Bi Xenon Headlights, Rain Sensing Wipers, Bose Sound System, Ipod Prep, GSM Phone Prep, Flat Bottom Multi Function Steering Wheel, Electric Folding Mirrors, Acoustic Parking, Cruise Control, Interior Light Pack, Non Smokers Pack. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - A Patio

08-07-2007, 22:31	#16
s3akr Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colchester, Essex Posts: 214 Members Car: Leon FR TDI 150 (Revo'd) + Octavia II VRS on order Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: tuning box yes or no???? Superchips do have a product for sure. Its just not the Bluefin product with the ability to switch between stock and performance modes. __________________ PREVIOUS VW GROUP MOTORS :- 2001 Audi S3 (Revo, N75J, Samco Hoses, Forge DV006), Golf V5 (170bhp), MkII Golf GTi 8v. CURRENT CARS :- Octavia VRs TFSi - 18", dual zone climate, coolbox/armrest, rear parking sensors. VRSTU Cruise, Maxidot and Bluetooth - need FSD's/Revo/Quickshift/Intake. Leon FR TDi 150 (Revo, Allards clutch plate, 18" RS6's).

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