Theory of relativitity help or similar conundrum's

swedishskoda · 28-11-2007, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRHartley

or is that really a sign of subtle intelligence ?

Hmmm... you may have stumbled over something there, mate

Dogs are nice but I am the cat-loving type, probably need to reconsider the arguments, though.

Wonderful with a thread like this, devoted to life's fundamental issues - forces you to question old prejudices

JRHartley · 28-11-2007, 21:29

'TIME' is the ceasation of movement of alcohol molecules from the landlords pump to your glass. Subject to the variables of 'vitular generosity', 'suitable clientele base' and the relative positions of 'dibble' and 'public house' , 'TIME' may also be subjective to the number of times the variable ' vitular generosity' has been at juxta position to the integer 'previous appearances before the magistrates' and the current value of 'last warnings'...

.. However 'TIME' may be bent by the application of 'Freemason handshake' or 'brown envelope' subject to the variable 'blind-eye' and provided 'bent coppers law' is obeyed where 'TIME' = 'TIME + ' when 'noise level' = zero and 'brown envelope' >= £100

smstext · 28-11-2007, 21:29

if a tree falls down in the woods and you stand near it you will hear it make a noise!! if you are not in the words and not in ear shot of it, would it make a noise?

ScoobyChris · 28-11-2007, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by smstext

if a tree falls down in the woods and you stand near it you will hear it make a noise!! if you are not in the words and not in ear shot of it, would it make a noise?

Depends on your definition of noise. One is:

- The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.

In which case it requires someone to be present for it to make a noise. Obviously the noise will be magnified if there is a bear sh1tting in the woods at the time!

Chris

swedishskoda · 28-11-2007, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by smstext

if a tree falls down in the woods and you stand near it you will hear it make a noise!! if you are not in the words and not in ear shot of it, would it make a noise?

If you stand too close you may not have had enough time to hear the noise

Depends on what noise is. As someone said earlier, there are soundwaves in the air, no matter if no one is near. But one could of course say that these waves need your (or someone else's) eardrums and brain cells before there can be a noise...

...aah, you beat me to it, ScoobyChris! Too slow at the keyboard.

Bigw2069 · 28-11-2007, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoobyChris

Depends on your definition of noise. One is:

- The sensation stimulated in the organs of hearing by such vibrations in the air or other medium.

In which case it requires someone to be present for it to make a noise. Obviously the noise will be magnified if there is a bear sh1tting in the woods at the time!

Chris

Is that the brown noise then? Brown note - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

***Neo_VR*** · 28-11-2007, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz

oh no, don't start on theory of relativity,......has flashbacks of being a bit drunk in a conservatory of a hotel in Gloucester tryin to explain why time doesn't exist...

.....

PMSL

heresmo · 28-11-2007, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenONeill

I read this and think "is that normal Jenga, or a variant, like giant kick Jenga"?

Wouldn't that be the irrestible force versus immovable object though

Mo

heresmo · 28-11-2007, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdenny

Which reminds me of:

If you're in a fabia at the speed of light (ok, unlikely you'd be going that slow, but maybe you'd stopped for a milky way) and you turn on the head lights, what happens?

You wish you'd stopped for a Mars Bar?

Mo

Loz · 29-11-2007, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedishskoda

But you can't have it both ways! Not even with (or without) the help of Einstein.

Either "time" is an invention (and I strongly suspect that it is, "time" is but a made-up convention helping us to sort out our experiences and perceptions), In that case your second remark makes no sense at all. If time doesn't exist, then a clock cannot measure time (or stop measuring it). It could stop moving, of course, but that's another matter. Or time exists outside the human brain and is therefore no invention.

Still, it must be remembered that "time" as a useful concepts very much exists and should be honoured. If someone asks you: "Time for a beer, mate?" it makes MUCH more sense to reply "What a good idea" than "There is no time"

ah but, I didn't suggest it HAD stopped measuring time! I was only implying the movement would APPEAR to stop. Same could be said for a waterfall. To your eyes it would have frozen because the same bit of light that has reflected off it will be hitting you eyes. The water is still falling, you just can't see it as the information isn't hitting your eyes. If a blind man is stood next to a waterfall and can't see it, doesn't mean it's not flowing. I think you missed my point.

Loz · 29-11-2007, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Kremen

Not quite, two beams of light headed towrds each other would be, relative to each other, doing twice the speed of light.

Sorry, I don't understand the relevance of this comment to what I said?

mac67 · 29-11-2007, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz

Sorry, I don't understand the relevance of this comment to what I said?

I think he's refering to when you quoted Einstein saying that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.

This thread is making my brain throb!

ap0gee · 29-11-2007, 09:20

Hi Loz,

The thing about the speed of light is that it's absolute, and so could never be achieved by anything man-made (even a 2.0l Fabia!!!

) AIUI, what this also means is that if said Fabia did manage to reach 99.999% of the speed of light, the speed of the photons leaving the headlamps would only be 0.001% of the speed of light, although this speed would still be 'c' both to the driver of the Fabia, and to any other observers - be they stationary or in motion themselves.

The fact this is so difficult a concept is the reason why Einstein came up with the Special Theory of Relativity (applying to light, and relying on 'time dilation') and the General Theory of Relativity (which applies to everything else, and where time is constant). There's a bit of a mathematical explanation by someone far brainier than me, here.

KenONeill · 29-11-2007, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz

then the beam would be travelling at the same speed as you so wouldn't light up infront of you.

Also....if you were travelling away from a clock that read exactly 2pm at the speed of light then the time would never change (permitting it was big enough for you to see it that far back) because it would be the same bit of light hitting your eyes all the time. That DOESN'T however mean time has stopped, as the person stood infront of the clock can see it ticking away!! Hence my above theory that Einstein was off his rocker!!

Presumably, if you could then exceed the speed of light while travelling backwards it would all go dark as no light could catch you....but according to Einstein NOTHING can go faster than light....

The light from the Furbie would be moving at lightspeed in your Inertial Frame of Reference in the Furbie. In my IFR, where the Furbie is moving at lightspeed, I'd not be able to tell the light from the Furbie.

swedishskoda · 29-11-2007, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz

ah but, I didn't suggest it HAD stopped measuring time! I was only implying the movement would APPEAR to stop.

Or maybe the movement just APPEAR to go on (to the person standing next to the clock, that is)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz

I think you missed my point.

I admit the possibility

Hope this doesn't mean that I have pushed you to the brink of insobriety one more time

JRHartley · 29-11-2007, 09:47

The speed of light is no longer considered absolute. Einsteins theory is more aimed at proving that the speed of light tops out at 186,282 mps. However he did not anticipate that it could be slowed down. There has been lots of work done over the last few years in slowing down light by passing it through extremely cold sodium atoms to the point where it is almost stationary.

I'm sure there'll be a man in a wheelchair along shorty to shoot me down in flames.

EDITED for being asleep at the wheel

swedishskoda · 29-11-2007, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRHartley

The speed of light is no longer considered absolute. Einsteins theory is more aimed at proving that the speed of light tops out at 186,282 mph.

Miles per second I hope? Or my Inertial Frame of Reference will collapse...

KenONeill · 29-11-2007, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoobyChris

As it's the force of gravity acting on the rock, I'd guess it would stop around the centre ... possibly!

Chris

I think you'd get a pendulum oscilation, neglecting the effects of air resistance obviously.

KenONeill · 29-11-2007, 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRHartley

If .............

cats are intelligent and dogs are thick, then why is my garden full of holes filled with flat felines with Pirelli tread marks where their faces used to be?

You're confusing "being intelligent" with "posessing traffic sense".

KenONeill · 29-11-2007, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedishskoda

But you can't have it both ways! Not even with (or without) the help of Einstein.

Either "time" is an invention (and I strongly suspect that it is, "time" is but a made-up convention helping us to sort out our experiences and perceptions), In that case your second remark makes no sense at all. If time doesn't exist, then a clock cannot measure time (or stop measuring it). It could stop moving, of course, but that's another matter. Or time exists outside the human brain and is therefore no invention.

Still, it must be remembered that "time" as a useful concepts very much exists and should be honoured. If someone asks you: "Time for a beer, mate?" it makes MUCH more sense to reply "What a good idea" than "There is no time"

Time is a natural result of living in a linear space/time continuum. Time measurement is a matter of local conventions.

JRHartley · 29-11-2007, 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedishskoda

Miles per second I hope? Or my Inertial Frame of Reference will collapse...

Busted,

started to type miles per second but the lack of working vowels on my PC's keyboard meant stupidity set in

Loz · 29-11-2007, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac67

I think he's refering to when you quoted Einstein saying that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.

This thread is making my brain throb!

I meant the bit about two beams of light going towards each other? I wasn't talking about that.

I know it's impossible to reach the speed of light, I'm pretty sure we are talking theoretically here?

KenONeill · 29-11-2007, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by heresmo

Wouldn't that be the irrestible force versus immovable object though

Mo

Giant kick Jenga is a pub game, invented by a group of student mates of mine, who's local was a "Firkin" house, with a giant Jenga set. The variation is that you have to start moving the block out of the tower by standing on one foot, and kicking the block with the other. This makes for some fairly short games by Time.

swedishskoda · 29-11-2007, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenONeill

Time is a natural result of living in a linear space/time continuum. Time meas

28-11-2007, 21:29	#52
JRHartley Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North west Posts: 2,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Theory of relativitity help or similar conundrum's 'TIME' is the ceasation of movement of alcohol molecules from the landlords pump to your glass. Subject to the variables of 'vitular generosity', 'suitable clientele base' and the relative positions of 'dibble' and 'public house' , 'TIME' may also be subjective to the number of times the variable ' vitular generosity' has been at juxta position to the integer 'previous appearances before the magistrates' and the current value of 'last warnings'... .. However 'TIME' may be bent by the application of 'Freemason handshake' or 'brown envelope' subject to the variable 'blind-eye' and provided 'bent coppers law' is obeyed where 'TIME' = 'TIME + ' when 'noise level' = zero and 'brown envelope' >= £100 __________________ I'm a celebrity...... Get me out of here !!! Last edited by JRHartley; 28-11-2007 at 21:36.

28-11-2007, 21:29	#53
smstext 2.0 FSI Sport. Join Date: May 2007 Location: oxon Posts: 9,380 Thanks: 11 Thanked 286 Times in 260 Posts	Re: Theory of relativitity help or similar conundrum's if a tree falls down in the woods and you stand near it you will hear it make a noise!! if you are not in the words and not in ear shot of it, would it make a noise? __________________ Oxon Meet Feeler 2009 please add your input, click here

29-11-2007, 09:20	#63
ap0gee ASZ Eternal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Leafy Chesh-shire Posts: 6,762 Thanks: 339 Thanked 356 Times in 308 Posts	Re: Theory of relativitity help or similar conundrum's Hi Loz, The thing about the speed of light is that it's absolute, and so could never be achieved by anything man-made (even a 2.0l Fabia!!! ) AIUI, what this also means is that if said Fabia did manage to reach 99.999% of the speed of light, the speed of the photons leaving the headlamps would only be 0.001% of the speed of light, although this speed would still be 'c' both to the driver of the Fabia, and to any other observers - be they stationary or in motion themselves. The fact this is so difficult a concept is the reason why Einstein came up with the Special Theory of Relativity (applying to light, and relying on 'time dilation') and the General Theory of Relativity (which applies to everything else, and where time is constant). There's a bit of a mathematical explanation by someone far brainier than me, here. __________________

29-11-2007, 09:47	#66
JRHartley Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North west Posts: 2,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Theory of relativitity help or similar conundrum's The speed of light is no longer considered absolute. Einsteins theory is more aimed at proving that the speed of light tops out at 186,282 mps. However he did not anticipate that it could be slowed down. There has been lots of work done over the last few years in slowing down light by passing it through extremely cold sodium atoms to the point where it is almost stationary. I'm sure there'll be a man in a wheelchair along shorty to shoot me down in flames. EDITED for being asleep at the wheel __________________ I'm a celebrity...... Get me out of here !!! Last edited by JRHartley; 29-11-2007 at 09:57.