ScoobyChris

Shamelessly pinched and added to.....

Advanced Driving Tips On Safer Overtaking

Advanced driving is about planning, and never more so when we're talking about 'OVERTAKING'. ...
If an overtake is safe and you've catered for as many 'what if's ' as possible....then proceed with caution. If there is an element of doubt...then don't proceed.

Overtaking multiple vehicles

Overtaking multiple vehicles is always with extreme caution as there are very few roads where it's possible with the amount of traffic flow (in the other direction)..also many vehicles are capable of double the national speed limit so there are few occasions nowadays where a law abiding driver has the chance to safely overtake.
However, there are times when on a clear and open NSL (national speed limit) road, there will be several vehicles well under the speed limit in front...perhaps wanting to pass a tractor or car towing a caravan...and they all don't feel they can achieve it safely ( for whatever reason)....Sometimes because drivers don't look far enough in the distance to 'plan' the overtake..

So if you've looked far enough in the distance and are sure there are no cars oncoming that you are going to conflict with, no hidden dips where oncoming cars might be and no offside lay-bys or junctions on either side....you are confident of the performance of your vehicle....you have been watching the drivers in front and are aware of their vehicles and their potential intentions....and you also have somewhere to go if it starts to look 'close'....then........... overtake.

If the cars are spaced out enough for you to overtake one and have enough space if needed to move back without causing the driver you've overtaken to brake or to cause them any inconvenience (ie by showing your brake lights)..treat each car as an overtake....ie: if there are 7 cars it's seven overtakes....

You don't have to keep moving back in, but could do if the need arises.

However, if the cars are bunched up together with no room to get back in....you have to treat the 7 cars as one overtake, or crow bar yourself in between them (greeting them with a thank you when you do). I 7-car overtake could be treated as a huge long goods vehicles.....so if you don't have enough power in your car and road ahead to pass all of them safely in one go, then don't do it.. remember also that you don't want too big a differential of speed when overtaking a line of cars as cars further up the line may also decide that they want to overtake without seeing you. With multi-car overtakes, it is also worth giving some kind of signal, eg a flash of headlights or a quick beep of the horn, to make sure they are aware you're there. If they turn round, you can acknowledge and thank them.


Positioning on the Road

You can do all of the above better by proper positioning.

The overtaking postiion should be entered into...which on a NSL road depends really on the speed of the vehicle in front....however, it's closer than a normal 'following position'...Then you need to move over the white lines and (if safe to do so)...sit in the opposite lane looking down the offside of the road and down the line of cars...

Here's the secret; DON'T ACCELERATE ..instead keep at the same speed as the car you are following....then if you see an oncoming vehicle in the distance....you can simply move back across onto your side of the road and your braking distance from the vehicle in front hasn't changed. When the oncoming car has passed by, repeat the action, back onto the opposite side of the road for another look. Imagine it like water skiing....where the bloke on the skis never gains or drops back from the boat..the length of the road remains the same...

This will allow you a full view of the road ahead, the cars in the line and also for any other dangers; lay-bys, junctions etc and allow you to decide if the overtake is ON or OFF. There are 3 choices in making the decision to overtake: Yes, No, and Maybe. If it's Maybe, then stay out until it's either a conclusive Yes or a No.

The associate problems with this are two fold. One...oncoming cars in the distance might assume that you're overtaking...(when you're not)....and the car that you were following might assume the same and slow down....
You have to be mindful of this and adapt accordingly.

Overtaking can be one of the most satisfying aspects of advanced driving, but at the same time has the potential to be the most dangerous. It's all about planning, anticipation and restraint....

It is always better to overtake at the beginning of a straight and watching the white line system will help tell you if an overtake is likely. Also looking where the road goes, you may be able to spot any oncoming cars that may compromise an overtake as well as spotting potential straights that you can use. If you can't see the road, look above the road for lampposts/trees/hedges which may also give clues as to where the road goes.

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

yashicamat

Some excellent tips there.

Something I do if I know the road in question, and I don't know if this maybe frowned upon, is I hold back a bit then gather some pace before actually overtaking to avoid time spent on the overtake itself. If the road isn't clear I can just slow down again rather than overtake as I have the space to do so.
Incidentally, I generally have my dipped beam on when overtaking as it just makes the car a little more visable, especially to any oncoming traffic in the distance.

I've not done any advanced driver training by the way, so what I do may be erroneous, just seems to make sense to me.

__________________
Rob

Nissan Primera GT in Silver
'56 Octy 2 2.0TDi Elegance . . . also gone but not forgotten
2002 Fabia 1.9TDi . . . . gone but not forgotten

http://uk.youtube.com/yashicamatonline

PEMBO

I do that too

__________________
1.4 16v Comfort 2001 - Average 40.21 MPG (REAL) over 14,909 miles

YAR! Subliminal Advertising..Buy PEMBO a PINT!!!! YAR!

ScoobyChris

The only thing I can think of with that technique is that you won't get the best view until you pull out to carry out the overtake (eg what would happen if an oncoming car was obscured by the vehicle you were overtaking) at which point you'll be carrying a lot more speed that you'll need to scrub off. You also might find that the vehicle you're overtaking isn't aware of your intentions until you go out for the overtake at which point there may be a significant difference in speed which will limit the space you have to react to any unpredictable thing they do

I don't think there's any such thing as "erroneous" style

Btw, I'm not a big fan of the IAM/RoSPA's attitude to overtaking which prohibits minimising the time exposed to danger by giving it "plenty of welly" to get past someone, but I guess they have to be seen to uphold the law!

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

duke of hazzard

how do you spot a "hidden dip"? some good advice though i do think alot of it should be common sense to an experienced driver.

__________________
Mods, Colour coded grille, DVD player, Fancy headlights, Whooshy thing, One of them brillo pad filters where the car sucks air in, and windows upgrade on the cpu from ME to Vista!

Joff

Good post

I follow that school of thought - move over onto the opposite side of the road to be able to view the situation, then if safe to do so, indicate that I intend to overtake, accelerate past the vehicles I'm overtaking and then pull back in.

__________________
A kitten is killed every time you don't use the search

ncarring

Various points arise from the last few posts:

The "advanced driving" theory of overtaking explicitly states that you don't accelerate until you're in the other lane and have decided the overtake is "on". We all do it, but it's not the "accepted" method. Chris has explained some of the reasons why. Another in my view is that you will be accelerating at an angle to the target vehicle, at which point, if something unforeseen crops up, the abort becomes more risky because steering is involved too.

The one big problem with the "advanced" method is if you're in a queue, and you pull out, the person behind you often assumes you've started an overtake, and closes the gap behind you, making it difficult to pull back in. An indicator often opens the gap again, but beware of minor road-rage arising from the misunderstanding. A wave of acknowledgement helps to defuse the situation.

__________________
Nick

North Wiltshire RoADAR

ScoobyChris

The other option if traffic is following closely is to pull out half-way so that you as the driver still get the view, but you safeguard the space you have to the left of the car.

And spotting "hidden dips" - that's be using limit points

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

TaviaRS

Catch, match, dispatch

__________________
A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast.

Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays

ncarring

Crests and dips are "vertical bends" and as Chris says, impose a limit on visibility.

Remember the golden rule - you need to be able to stop on your own side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear. Of course, with overtaking, you have to remember that might mean lots of other people having to stop too, so add an extra safety margin.

__________________
Nick

North Wiltshire RoADAR

Chris GB

For a multi vehicle overtake I always hit main beam as I begin and keep it on until I am alongside the last vehicle. Experience has taught me this Still need to keep an eye on 'em though and keep the speed differential sensible.

Chris

__________________
Red Fabia vRS. Gone but not forgotten.

Chilli Red / white Mini Cooper Diesel with dual controls.

Silver 53 MR2. Mods: PPE 4>1 manifold | PPE Mangnaflow high flow cat | Blueflame catback exhaust | Pikey inlet mod | 3.0 Racing Chassis stiffening brace kit | BC Racing fully adjustable coilovers | TF loud. Details here My MR2 Page

tfboy

I'm often perplexed at the "string of 7 cars" behaviour.

I often tend to follow a long line of cars for a minute or two without overtaking, even if an overtaking opportunity presents itself (assuming single carriageway here). I do this to try and get a feel for how the 7 cars in front of me stuck behind the HGV, tractor, whatever, behave.

One of my pet hates is when each car is "tailgaiting" the one in front, yet it's perfectly obvious that he will never overtake the car just in front, let alone the slowing-traffic vehicle right at the front. If people have decided they won't attempt to overtake until a DC appears, then it would be far more sensible to leave a more significant gap between themselves and the car in front, allowing other cars behind them (i.e. you) to overtake and possibly pull in in front of them without having to "barge in, making a space for overtaking car (you)".

It surprising how many people give you the road-rage flashing lights when you pull in in front of them when they haven't left you enough space and feel bullied into making one and they weren't going to overtake the slowing vehicle anyway

Sorry, rant over and done with

__________________
Xavier

ScoobyChris

One way to work through the line is to make use of the concertina effect of corners. Cars will naturally bunch up under braking and then spread out exiting the corner.

Back when I had the Scooby I was following a JCB from work with a line of cars behind me, and was leaving a good space between me and the JCB so I could see when the overtaking opportunity arose and go for it. After about a mile, the JCB indicated left so I slowed down accordingly and the chap behind me overtook, panicked at the oncoming car and squeezed into the gap I'd made. The JCB turned off, the road opened out and I had the pleasure of then following him at 40mph along the rest of the S/C road

I'm now a little more positive over positioning and will sit closer to the crown of the road, where possible, to show the people behind I am planning to overtake and not just being a sheep....

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

Chris GB

Ahhh the subtle (or not so subtle) art of car language.

Chris

__________________
Red Fabia vRS. Gone but not forgotten.

Chilli Red / white Mini Cooper Diesel with dual controls.

Silver 53 MR2. Mods: PPE 4>1 manifold | PPE Mangnaflow high flow cat | Blueflame catback exhaust | Pikey inlet mod | 3.0 Racing Chassis stiffening brace kit | BC Racing fully adjustable coilovers | TF loud. Details here My MR2 Page

TaviaRS

Chris (of the scooby variety) - banana or triangle?

__________________
A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast.

Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays

Sonic1980

Even on my first few drivers as a learner () advanced driver with IAM I have been told about 'positive' road positioning.
For exmple a wide road, space for 3 cars apart and 2 cars approaching in opposite directions. One car on one side means one driver has right of way and vice-versa.
However 2 cars parked, one on each side and you pull out early towards middle of road before other driver, and 90% of the time they allow you through...

__________________

Fabia v/RS

http://www.whf.org.uk
Wildlife Heritage Foundation - The Big Cat Sanctuary in Kent.
Part of the European Endangered Species Programme (EEP)

Big Cat Encounter - Want an idea for a great present??

ScoobyChris

A Kumquat would be my usual choice, but if push came to shove, I might allow pineapple.

HTH

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

ScoobyChris

Yep, this is excellent advice, and comes down to being seen early as well as making the gap appear smaller (so opposing cars slow down). Not always successful though, so be prepared to move back over when the woman in the 4x4 doesn't show any signs of yielding!

Another approach would be to try and seamlessly blend through the hazard. For example, in the scenario you describe, you might choose to use acceleration sense, to bring your speed down early, allowing the other two cars to come through before you arrive at the hazard, so you can "blend" through without needing to stop.

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

TaviaRS

Failing that - repeatedly flash headlights to simulate a police car whilst nailing it toward the hazard

__________________
A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast.

Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays

Sonic1980

Also, for me, making a nee-nah nee-nah noise in my head speeds up a journey too...

__________________

Fabia v/RS

http://www.whf.org.uk
Wildlife Heritage Foundation - The Big Cat Sanctuary in Kent.
Part of the European Endangered Species Programme (EEP)

Big Cat Encounter - Want an idea for a great present??

PEMBO

__________________
1.4 16v Comfort 2001 - Average 40.21 MPG (REAL) over 14,909 miles

YAR! Subliminal Advertising..Buy PEMBO a PINT!!!! YAR!

gilaandy

Some good stuff there fellas. Living in Cumbria, the driving challenges are pretty unique given the winding roads, number of farmers, Sunday drivers and people who have got nothing better to do than drag a caravan around a country lane. In the south of the county, there's not many places to overtake safely if you don't know the road very well indeed.

For me, the most dangerous variable in any overtaking manoeuvre is the vehicle you are overtaking. If you're overtaking someone who knows the road, then the chances are they are going to anticipate your move and generally accomodate it (i.e. not cutting the corner on the approach to a straight or backing off when you're alongside). If they don't know the road, it can often lead to close shaves, especially when (a) they're not paying attention by looking over fences at things like cows and sheep (tourists take note: rubber necking is not clever, it is dangerous) or (b) they don't anticipate the manoeuvre and either end up pulling out on you when you're overtaking them and another car, or get themselves all out of shape when trying to drive like a local. For instance, when I come flying round an easily NSL corner and find a car coming the other on my side of the road because they've gone into the corner too fast or too deep.

I like Chris' point about leaving the main beam on, but I find it more appropriate just to give a little flash (oo-er), especially when they're clearly not focussing on the road.

In terms of overtaking styles, the one that works best for me is keeping in a low enough gear so that the power is there as soon as you touch the throttle and staying about 2 car lengths behind the victim. Any closer and you can't back out of the manoeuvre if a car unexpectedly comes in the opposite direction and makes the overtake "safer" by not forcing you to turn the wheel too much....any thoughts chaps?

ScoobyChris

Here are a few of my thoughts

All methods of signalling to people have pitfalls and are open to misinterpretation - the main one I can think of with a short headlamp flash is that it may be interpreted as an invitation, and as a result they may pull out on you. As I said no ideal method of signalling and so long as you're expecting people to react then you shouldn't be surprised by any reaction!

Agree with you completely about the lower gear though. Catch the target vehicle, match speed (and then select overtaking gear), move out for a look and if it's on then despatch! Also remember to identify where you're going to "land" when you have completed the overtake before going.

One tip I was also given (can't remember if I mentioned it earlier in the thread) is to not change up during the overtake (unless you run out of revs!) so that if you have to slot in between two slower moving cars you can use acceleration sense and blend in rather than showing brake lights to the car you've just overtaken (as that might upset them).

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........