TaviaRS

OK, we all know the "maxim" that you should be able to stop in the distance that you can see. Is it a myth or is it true?

Example

Today I was pootling along, nice sunny afternoon, a pleasant downhill curvey (only 'cos I can't spell windey) road, fairly narrow lanes. Approaching a left hand bend, was correcty positioned speed was such that the limit point was not moving in either direction. Just as I entered the curvature of the bend another vehicle appeared on my my side of the road in the opposite direction. I braked. He braked and had to swerve, almost hitting the bank on his side.

Got me thinking that the maxim may be wrong. Should you make additional allowances for the unexpected? ie should the maxim be "only go as fast as to be able to stop in half the distance you can see". Wouldn't this, possibly true, modification to the maxim be a barrier to making reasonable progress?

Paranoia? Sensible? You decide

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ScoobyChris

Had you been going half the speed, how would the situation have been different (assuming that you still both saw each other at the same time)? Did he have to swerve because your braking took so long and you finished in a position in his path, or because he panicked and was trying to get back on his side of the road and brake as a reflex reaction to seeing you (unexpectedly) appear?

For overtaking, it was suggested that I should be able to complete it in 1/2 the distance I could see to be clear, to account for meeting myself () coming the other way....

Chris

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rossm

Agree with what your saying, but I suppose the principle behind this technique is that everyone on the road is singing off the same hymm sheet...

Dr Zoidberg

You do need to make an allowance for things finding their way into the distance that you can see to be clear.

It's all very well and good being able to see for half a mile , but if someone pulls out into the road from a driveway for example , then your available distance suddenly drops.

In the event of an insurance claim you'd be in the right , but you'll still have a bent car to repair

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Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

ncarring

So what was matey doing on the wrong side of the road? Overtaking? Thought it was one-way? Just gambling? or very very depressed?

Everybody's right - the distance you can see to be clear is not enough protection sometimes. At least you were prepared, even if he wasn't.

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Nick

North Wiltshire RoADAR

TaviaRS

Chris he was doing the "I've been round this bend hundreds of times and not met anything yet" and cutting the apex by about half a car width. Steep bank my side, dry stone wall his side.

Funny thing was I was obeying the meet myself coming the other way rule. Just as well really.

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A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast.

Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays

WW_VRS

I always try to stick with the 'stay on your side of the road, and expect others to not always do the same' thing, allowing me a bit of extra room to shift over in a controlled manner (usually).

Currently I have a problem with my Xenons height adjusters so they're FAR too low and my visibility at night on dipped is cr*p as a result - so my safe speed has dropped significantly.

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ColinD

I guess if you modify the maxim to cater for half, what happens when 3rd part is travelling in excess, lets suggest twice appropriate speed, do we then think 1/4qtr stopping distance?

However the general point raised I think sounds sensible. Not that I have a choice in the mx5

I really must do some driver training /learning. the brief time this weekend with the track instructor was great, really. Just not all applicable to the road

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redbaron

or use the maxim that when your number is up then that it.. until then go hell for leather....


depends what you have to live for.

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TaviaRS

Hell for leather it is then

__________________
A jolly sensible Mercedes E class saloon in a rather fetching bluey grey colour. No it isn't fast, no it isn't modded, and yes, it will still eat your Fabia for breakfast.

Official mobile chicane for Briskoda trackdays

WW_VRS

__________________
WW --->> Project Journal (pic links in first post there)
Lummox'/Ross thread on Unit18 Automotive progress on my car: here

KenONeill

Not always true and not always wrong either. A lot depends on the width of the road. There are several around here where the fastest that's safe is being able to stop in half the distance you can see clear, but there are others where you'd run out of lateral grip before you ran out of forward vision by that rule.

heresmo

Sort of relevant, that, when on my driving test (donkey's years ago), I was directed into a very short street and approaching a junction. A car turned in, then cut across my path to get quickly into a parking space to the left of me. My first reaction was "swearword is this one way and I'm going the wrong way?" I wasn't of course, but it did teach me thenceforward to expect the unexpected. (Brain logged.)

I don't know about speed, sight and distance parameters - only that someone could step out at any time, or be crossing with a walking stick or buggy around any corner. You'll know I mainly do town driving, but such eventualities are probably as much likely on quiet roads (incl animals).

Regards
Mo

matchmaker

You can't spell curvy either

Or when applied to SWMBO it's "voluptuous"

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Alan

"Darth" - Black Magic Octavia VRS with Forge DV, BMC CDA induction kit, Milltek cat, Supersprint exhaust, Xenons, ESP, cruise, parking sensors and Kumho 225/45/17 tyres Been to Star sufficient bhp & ample lb/ft All time low - 7.8 mpg

richie

The advanced system give various ways to "prepare" for things like this via Driving Plans, ie

1 What can be seen, eg parked vehicles, road lay out etc

2 What cannot be seen, eg obscured vision by hedges or walls etc

3 What may reasonably be expected to happen eg, any on coming vehicles in the centre of the road, children running accross the road out side a school and so on.

You may also consider your position into a bend. For a right hand bend, position towards the nearside, or for a left hand bend, towards the white lines. These methods should give the driver better forwadrs observation, but be prepared to give room to larger vehicles or pillocks who cant drive.

Hope this helps.....................

Just sat back and read what I posted. God I sound like a geek!

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heresmo

richie - thanks from me. I don't have the knowledge of advanced drivers, so follow all of these threads Point being, thank goodness for geeks on Briskoda - aren't we all car geeks though?

Best
Mo

ScoobyChris

I think reasonably be expected may be the key to what Jon was talking about. Is it reasonable to expect someone blindly taking the racing line through a corner, using your side of the road on, for example a regular S/C road? When I was doing RoSPA, my observer told me of an incident involving his associate at the time who was driving round a corner on a S/C, to the limit point and so that he could stop in the distance he could see to be clear. As the limit point started to move, the chap was presented with a foreign lorry driving towards him on his side of the road! Stopping wasn't an option, so he ended up "overtaking" the lorry and thankfully the cars behind the lorry had left plenty of room.

I'm guessing some unexpected situations are just too unexpected to be able to plan for and the stop in the distance you can see to be clear mantra really only applies when you're approaching static hazards..........

Chris

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Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

KenONeill

That's almost certainly true Chris. I once heard a story from one of the HPC guys about how he once came through a blind corner (in a Lotus/Caterham 7 of all things to have this happen in) to find 2 BT vans side by side and racing each other. His evasive action involved off-roading up a bank!

KenONeill

Can I just remind anyone who's still paying attention that this rule applies to blind crests every bit as much as to corners!

matchmaker

I recall hearing a tale of a guy giving it nuts round a long bend - taking the "racing line". Midway through the bend he met another guy coming the opposite way doing the same

They passed each other on the wrong side of the road

Both stopped, walked up to each other, shook hands, and drove off without saying a word

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Alan

"Darth" - Black Magic Octavia VRS with Forge DV, BMC CDA induction kit, Milltek cat, Supersprint exhaust, Xenons, ESP, cruise, parking sensors and Kumho 225/45/17 tyres Been to Star sufficient bhp & ample lb/ft All time low - 7.8 mpg