Safe Timing Settings

Makefish · 18-03-2007, 10:51

What is the safe maximum to run timing before you potentially cause detontation?. The reason I ask is that when I was with you last month I came away with timing set to 6 but after logging a few runs and discussion with JKM in Portsmouth one of the cylinders was -6 and therefore was recomended to reduce my timing to 5.

Also, would having 'colder' spark plugs than the OEM ones have any bearing on your answers to the above.

Hope this makes sense but I would like to know what I can do safely with my Select Plus.

**delcac** · 18-03-2007, 10:55

Safe = 0........buuuuut you don't wanna do that.

3 - 4

TeflonTom · 18-03-2007, 10:59

i not an expert of the fsi engines, but imo going to a colder plug may cause you ignition problems.... the whole point of fsi is to concentrate the fuel/air mixture into a sweet spot in the centre of the combustion chamber, and a colder plug will have a shorter electrode which may not quite reach the 'sweet spot' properly......

i'm sure sombody who knows more about statified injection will come along and give you the answer you need

Harry_vRS · 18-03-2007, 14:06

I take it you've read the PDF that comes with it Steve.

There is a guide in there with what the values you put in mean. IIRC for 98/99RON fuel it says timing in the range of 4-6

I tried running 8-6-9 and it wasn't that good to be honest so I turned it down to 7-4-9 and it ran an awful lot better.

Although since installing my Injen intake I sometimes get a very abrupt "hesitation" around the 4k-5.5k RPM range. I don't know whether this is down to the settings I'm using as when I went back to stock power it stopped doing it.

Think I may have a split DV too. Is this diagnosed as loosing umph further up the rev range? Could do with this Forge solution ASAP.

bengie · 18-03-2007, 14:16

the abrupt cutting back sounds like knock to me where the ecu is pulling back the ignition timing and oost to save damaging the engine.

**VRStu** · 18-03-2007, 14:34

The abrupt stop is probably the infamous cut out. I know there is someone trialing a potential fix, maybe get a review next week.

Harry_vRS · 18-03-2007, 14:52

Not really worth buying another DV from the dealers then is it.

Can't wait for the new Forge product to be released.

**VRStu** · 18-03-2007, 16:20

From what I know the Forge product will require a servicable OEM DV as well so your money wouldn't be wasted. Around £26 IIRC.

Makefish · 18-03-2007, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRStu

From what I know the Forge product will require a servicable OEM DV as well so your money wouldn't be wasted. Around £26 IIRC.

Not totally correct I'm affraid. I think you may have misunderstood me but the Forge solution involves a new valve and control part as two seperate components but I'm not sure if the control part is OEM or not, hopefuly I'll have some more information on this later next week.

Quote:

The abrupt stop is probably the infamous cut out. I know there is someone trialing a potential fix, maybe get a review next week.

Unfortunately that may not be for some time either, an important part of the potential fix is on back order and could take up to two months!.

**VRStu** · 18-03-2007, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makefish

Not totally correct I'm affraid. I think you may have misunderstood me but the Forge solution involves a new valve and control part as two seperate components but I'm not sure if the control part is OEM or not, hopefuly I'll have some more information on this later next week.

Ahh, well the way you explained it the OEM DV was still used on the end of the new part.

Makefish · 18-03-2007, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRStu

Ahh, well the way you explained it the OEM DV was still used on the end of the new part.

Nope, t'other way round

Makefish · 19-03-2007, 08:08

Lady E, much that I find your story interesting I cannot see how it belongs in a serious thread such as this ie. my original question was directed at REVO. I have created a new thread for you and put it here.

Please can we keep on topic.

RevoKev · 19-03-2007, 10:38

Ideally you want to set the timing up to see maximum correctional factors of 3º across all four cylinders. You can run a bit more than this for maximum power, but as you're talking of 'safe' settings look for three's across the range.
http://www.revotechnik.com/products/...uide060406.pdf
You want to ahdere to this regardless of the plugs you're running, some people have got on really well using one heat range lower in their cars. Personnally I've always run the same as stock but with a quality NGK plug.
Bear in mind the hotter the car the more the CFs, so it's always good to monitor CF after the cars warm and has been in use.
Hope this helps.

Lady Elanore · 19-03-2007, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makefish

Lady E, much that I find your story interesting I cannot see how it belongs in a serious thread such as this ie. my original question was directed at REVO. I have created a new thread for you and put it here.

Please can we keep on topic.

I posted it up to highlight not only how things have changed when putting advance into a fuel injected engine, but also to highlight the dangers of over advancing. I nearly wrote an engine off because of it. So I figured that while it wasn’t a salient story, it was in keeping with the ethos of the thread, even if not directly giving you the actual numbers you were after. Sorry.

TeflonTom · 19-03-2007, 14:32

right, i've been reading up a bit on stratified injection..... it seems that it isn't solely the ignition advance angles which need adjusting, it may also be necessary for the injection 'pulse' to be advanced too to get a clean burn....

i'm way in over my head here, i dont really understand this type of injection system properly

18-03-2007, 10:51	#1
Makefish Ex-Moddy Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hampshire Posts: 8,174 Thanks: 174 Thanked 234 Times in 175 Posts	Safe Timing Settings What is the safe maximum to run timing before you potentially cause detontation?. The reason I ask is that when I was with you last month I came away with timing set to 6 but after logging a few runs and discussion with JKM in Portsmouth one of the cylinders was -6 and therefore was recomended to reduce my timing to 5. Also, would having 'colder' spark plugs than the OEM ones have any bearing on your answers to the above. Hope this makes sense but I would like to know what I can do safely with my Select Plus. __________________ Black magic Octy II vRS MY2008 with Maxidot ~ Xenons ~ Cruise ~ Light Assist ~ Dual Zone Climate Control ~ Rain Sensing Wipers ~ MFD2 Satellite Navigation ~ VAG Bluetooth Phone Kit ~ Milltek Exhaust with 2.75" Downpipe ~ EVOM Ram Air Intake ~ Nuespeed Shortshifter ~ Eibach Rear ARB ~ Koni FSD Dampers ~ Eibach Springs ~ Forge Front Mounted Twintercooler ~ Nuespeed Hi-Flo Intercooler Pipe ~ Nuespeed Hi-Flo Turbo Outlet Pipe ~ Eurojet PCV Valve ~ Forge DV ~Autotech Hi Volume Fuel Pump ~ Nuespeed Torque Arm Insert ~ NGK Iridium Spark plugs ~ REVO Stage II+ Software ~ Matt Black Viper Stripes! Last edited by Makefish; 18-03-2007 at 10:53.

18-03-2007, 10:55	#2
delcac Still a **** Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chatham, Kent Posts: 7,260 Thanks: 16 Thanked 69 Times in 54 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings Safe = 0........buuuuut you don't wanna do that. 3 - 4 __________________ The Red Devil

18-03-2007, 10:59	#3
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 7,927 Thanks: 43 Thanked 200 Times in 173 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings i not an expert of the fsi engines, but imo going to a colder plug may cause you ignition problems.... the whole point of fsi is to concentrate the fuel/air mixture into a sweet spot in the centre of the combustion chamber, and a colder plug will have a shorter electrode which may not quite reach the 'sweet spot' properly...... i'm sure sombody who knows more about statified injection will come along and give you the answer you need __________________ vorsprung durch czechnik

18-03-2007, 14:06	#4
Harry_vRS Briskodian Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Posts: 2,039 Thanks: 16 Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings I take it you've read the PDF that comes with it Steve. There is a guide in there with what the values you put in mean. IIRC for 98/99RON fuel it says timing in the range of 4-6 I tried running 8-6-9 and it wasn't that good to be honest so I turned it down to 7-4-9 and it ran an awful lot better. Although since installing my Injen intake I sometimes get a very abrupt "hesitation" around the 4k-5.5k RPM range. I don't know whether this is down to the settings I'm using as when I went back to stock power it stopped doing it. Think I may have a split DV too. Is this diagnosed as loosing umph further up the rev range? Could do with this Forge solution ASAP. __________________ \| Silver Octavia v/RS Mk2 \| 18" Alloys \| Dual Zone Climatronic \| Xenons \| \| 273bhp 335lbft \| Access Virus C Synthesizer For Sale Click Here For eBAY Auction Last edited by Harry_vRS; 18-03-2007 at 14:15.

18-03-2007, 14:16	#5
bengie splash!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: planet earth Posts: 14,933 Thanks: 15 Thanked 126 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings the abrupt cutting back sounds like knock to me where the ecu is pulling back the ignition timing and oost to save damaging the engine. __________________ owner of a skoda octavia 4xvrs3

18-03-2007, 14:34	#6
VRStu Briskoda Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,413 Thanks: 113 Thanked 919 Times in 825 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings The abrupt stop is probably the infamous cut out. I know there is someone trialing a potential fix, maybe get a review next week. __________________ Stu - Freedom Pimp Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2007 Octavia vRS, Race Blue, Xenons, Columbus Navigation, Rear Parking Sensors, Maxi Dot, Light Assist, Jumbo Box, 18" Alloys, Stu's Cruise Control & OEM Integrated Bluetooth Telephone. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - 2002 Lotus Elise RaceTech, Gunmetal, Radio, Carpet Mats.

18-03-2007, 14:52	#7
Harry_vRS Briskodian Join Date: May 2005 Location: North Posts: 2,039 Thanks: 16 Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings Not really worth buying another DV from the dealers then is it. Can't wait for the new Forge product to be released. __________________ \| Silver Octavia v/RS Mk2 \| 18" Alloys \| Dual Zone Climatronic \| Xenons \| \| 273bhp 335lbft \| Access Virus C Synthesizer For Sale Click Here For eBAY Auction

18-03-2007, 16:20	#8
VRStu Briskoda Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,413 Thanks: 113 Thanked 919 Times in 825 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings From what I know the Forge product will require a servicable OEM DV as well so your money wouldn't be wasted. Around £26 IIRC. __________________ Stu - Freedom Pimp Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2007 Octavia vRS, Race Blue, Xenons, Columbus Navigation, Rear Parking Sensors, Maxi Dot, Light Assist, Jumbo Box, 18" Alloys, Stu's Cruise Control & OEM Integrated Bluetooth Telephone. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - 2002 Lotus Elise RaceTech, Gunmetal, Radio, Carpet Mats.

19-03-2007, 08:08	#12
Makefish Ex-Moddy Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hampshire Posts: 8,174 Thanks: 174 Thanked 234 Times in 175 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings Lady E, much that I find your story interesting I cannot see how it belongs in a serious thread such as this ie. my original question was directed at REVO. I have created a new thread for you and put it here. Please can we keep on topic. __________________ Black magic Octy II vRS MY2008 with Maxidot ~ Xenons ~ Cruise ~ Light Assist ~ Dual Zone Climate Control ~ Rain Sensing Wipers ~ MFD2 Satellite Navigation ~ VAG Bluetooth Phone Kit ~ Milltek Exhaust with 2.75" Downpipe ~ EVOM Ram Air Intake ~ Nuespeed Shortshifter ~ Eibach Rear ARB ~ Koni FSD Dampers ~ Eibach Springs ~ Forge Front Mounted Twintercooler ~ Nuespeed Hi-Flo Intercooler Pipe ~ Nuespeed Hi-Flo Turbo Outlet Pipe ~ Eurojet PCV Valve ~ Forge DV ~Autotech Hi Volume Fuel Pump ~ Nuespeed Torque Arm Insert ~ NGK Iridium Spark plugs ~ REVO Stage II+ Software ~ Matt Black Viper Stripes! Last edited by Makefish; 19-03-2007 at 08:14.

19-03-2007, 10:38	#13
RevoKev Site Sponsor Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 210 Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings Ideally you want to set the timing up to see maximum correctional factors of 3º across all four cylinders. You can run a bit more than this for maximum power, but as you're talking of 'safe' settings look for three's across the range. http://www.revotechnik.com/products/...uide060406.pdf You want to ahdere to this regardless of the plugs you're running, some people have got on really well using one heat range lower in their cars. Personnally I've always run the same as stock but with a quality NGK plug. Bear in mind the hotter the car the more the CFs, so it's always good to monitor CF after the cars warm and has been in use. Hope this helps.

19-03-2007, 14:32	#15
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 7,927 Thanks: 43 Thanked 200 Times in 173 Posts	Re: Safe Timing Settings right, i've been reading up a bit on stratified injection..... it seems that it isn't solely the ignition advance angles which need adjusting, it may also be necessary for the injection 'pulse' to be advanced too to get a clean burn.... i'm way in over my head here, i dont really understand this type of injection system properly __________________ vorsprung durch czechnik

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode