Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations.

Goochie · 08-05-2006, 12:57

Thise who fill up at Shell stations may be interested in this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4980190.stm

Especially, if like me, you fill up at Shell regularly and have recently had a card cloned

ChrisRs · 08-05-2006, 13:10

I've not used Shell service stations for 5 years. Since I was ripped off to the tune of £150 on my switch card by someone using my number. I was refunded by the bank because I was able to proove that that transaction was not mine (Orange) I had a T Mobile phone. Eventually an employee was sacked and subsequently jailed for it.

DangerMouse · 08-05-2006, 14:08

This happened at some of the Shell garages near me, apparently. Thankfully I hadn't filled up there though, I dont think... I did buy some chocolates on monthers day (as you do) from there though, but I think I paid cash!

MikeW · 08-05-2006, 14:30

Thanks for posting, back to Sainsbury's fuel for a while me thinks!

Jon TDI · 08-05-2006, 14:35

Noticed that the local Shell station didn't have the chip & pin handset any more.

Now I know why!

heresmo · 08-05-2006, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

This happened at some of the Shell garages near me, apparently. Thankfully I hadn't filled up there though, I dont think... I did buy some chocolates on monthers day (as you do) from there though, but I think I paid cash!

[my bold]

A spokesman for a bank reported at the weekend said that it was better to make withdrawals from ATM's as infrequently as practicable (i.e. draw a lot of money out in one go, rather than taking little bits daily or whatever).

Presumably it will give them fewer transactions to check on, in order to detect "rogue" transactions.

The cynic in me asked whether that was the true motive. A bank will benefit from not paying interest on amounts withdrawn, but it reduces their "bread and butter money", i.e. the amount idling in accounts which they can invest in total on the money market. IOW I think security is the upper motive.

In summary, it seems we could be going back to a cash-based society.

Mo

MikeW · 08-05-2006, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by heresmo

[my bold]

A spokesman for a bank reported at the weekend said that it was better to make withdrawals from ATM's as infrequently as practicable (i.e. draw a lot of money out in one go, rather than taking little bits daily or whatever).

Presumably it will give them fewer transactions to check on, in order to detect "rogue" transactions.

The cynic in me asked whether that was the true motive. A bank will benefit from not paying interest on amounts withdrawn, but it reduces their "bread and butter money", i.e. the amount idling in accounts which they can invest in total on the money market. IOW I think security is the upper motive.

In summary, it seems we could be going back to a cash-based society.

Mo

You could be right there Mo. Less chance of scams and fraud.

DaveH · 09-05-2006, 07:32

Get an AMEX, you'll get cashback plus they haven't implemented chip and pin. I sign everytime despite what the adverts say.

lozgti · 09-05-2006, 08:05

I know I'm boring and have moaned about this a lot BUT....

how come there is just so much fraud going on with technology? Chip and Pin was meant to be brilliant.It's not.One human crook involved is all it takes.I have had a card done too to the tune of £1500 (lebanese loop job)

I wonder if Mo is right.Cheques seem to be safer and cash.I won't buy over the Net and was even worried about paying freedom on Paypal (my only transaction on the net).

Don't think this will do Shell any good either reading the posts.Serves them right if the garage owners don't check employees vigorously just to save a few quid

I think the banks and the shopping/fuel outlets should be the ones who pick up the bill evry time.And pay compensation.

**mannyo** · 09-05-2006, 08:11

I use my cards online all the time, and carry virtually no cash wherever I go. I prefer paying on debit/credit cards, have always been like this.

The shell thing is worrying, but no technology is safe. France have had a version of chip/pin for many years, but fraud is now on the increase over there because the system has been cracked. Same thing will happen here to eventually. Spain have the swipe/sign system still in place, but virtually no card fraud. The reason? to pay by plastic you must show you national ID card or passport.

**robmawer** · 09-05-2006, 08:31

Same as Manny - very rarely have cash on me, do everything via electronic transactions. Have never had anything fraudulent happen, except when I got mugged for my debit card - if it had been cash I'd been carrying, they wouldn't have ever been caught. And if chip'n'pin had been around, they wouldn't have been able to mimic my signature, so probably never would've got anything.

Cheques are a nightmare when it comes to cashflow...also, it's hardly like cheques are not prone to forgery or people generally messing with the system.

I buy lots of stuff online - ultimately it's more secure than handing your card over in a restaurant, or making a payment over the phone. Though I guess I might be biased on that one what with working for a payment service provider...

Rob.

Jon TDI · 09-05-2006, 08:58

I don't like chip & pin at all.

Used to love my old swipe card. I think Royal Bank of Scotland were the only ones to issue a card with a photo id & signature laser etched on the back of the card.

boyced · 09-05-2006, 09:06

how did they get the pin numbers? didn't think you could clone the chip and pin chip?

Dr Zoidberg · 09-05-2006, 09:19

They didn't clone the Chip & Pin part.

A lot of terminals also read the magnetic strip , and it was this that was cloned to make non C&P cards which were used.

**mannyo** · 09-05-2006, 09:25

As Alex has just said, I think they skim the card in a standard cardreader, then due to the design of the chip/pin terminal they can then see the pin being entered. They then have all the info they need to use a cash machine to withdraw money.

Goochie · 09-05-2006, 13:36

I've always thought it should be possible to have 2PIN's on the same card. One for ammounts under £70 and one for ammounts over that and for use at ATM's. You'd have to make it optional as some people cant even remember one numebr

But, it'd work for those who wanted to safeguard themselves a little more.

HotVRs · 10-05-2006, 08:37

Hersmo I think you could be right, I've stopped using cards to pay for anything now and don't buy on the internet anymore. Very sad situation when big expensive schemes still have bloody huge holes in them.

08-05-2006, 12:57	#1
Goochie Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 12,363 Members Car: Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts	Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. Thise who fill up at Shell stations may be interested in this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4980190.stm Especially, if like me, you fill up at Shell regularly and have recently had a card cloned

08-05-2006, 13:10	#2
ChrisRs Skonda Fabic Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,980 Members Car: Thanks: 17 Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. I've not used Shell service stations for 5 years. Since I was ripped off to the tune of £150 on my switch card by someone using my number. I was refunded by the bank because I was able to proove that that transaction was not mine (Orange) I had a T Mobile phone. Eventually an employee was sacked and subsequently jailed for it.

08-05-2006, 14:08	#3
DangerMouse Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 508 Members Car: Octavia vRS Mk2 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. This happened at some of the Shell garages near me, apparently. Thankfully I hadn't filled up there though, I dont think... I did buy some chocolates on monthers day (as you do) from there though, but I think I paid cash! __________________ Had: Mk 2 Octavia 1.6MPI Had: Black Magic Furby vRS w/ Cruise Control Had: Mk 1 Octavia vRS - They've had too much of my money now! Got: Mk 2 Octavia vRS TFSI - I need to stop buying Skodas now - It's just getting silly!

08-05-2006, 14:30	#4
MikeW Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 1,509 Members Car: Thanks: 9 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. Thanks for posting, back to Sainsbury's fuel for a while me thinks!

08-05-2006, 14:35	#5
Jon TDI Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: North East England Posts: 3,227 Members Car: SEAT Leon TDI Sport Thanks: 34 Thanked 34 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. Noticed that the local Shell station didn't have the chip & pin handset any more. Now I know why! __________________ Black Magic SEAT Leon 2.0 TDI Sport - Green panel thingy, Upsolute jiggery pokery, Koni FSD/Eibach Pro Kit bouncy stuff, 18" Audi A8 Parabol rims, '08 Cupra black/honeycombe grille. Also driving around in a Mini ONE that thinks it's a Cooper! John Cooper Works airbox, Superchips Bluefin remap, Sprint Booster, 17" Cooper S Spokes Last edited by Jon TDI; 08-05-2006 at 14:37.

09-05-2006, 07:32	#8
DaveH Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sheffield Posts: 806 Members Car: Octavia Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. Get an AMEX, you'll get cashback plus they haven't implemented chip and pin. I sign everytime despite what the adverts say. __________________ Mondeo Tdci 115, sweet!

09-05-2006, 08:05	#9
lozgti Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: midlands Posts: 5,719 Members Car: Thanks: 10 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. I know I'm boring and have moaned about this a lot BUT.... how come there is just so much fraud going on with technology? Chip and Pin was meant to be brilliant.It's not.One human crook involved is all it takes.I have had a card done too to the tune of £1500 (lebanese loop job) I wonder if Mo is right.Cheques seem to be safer and cash.I won't buy over the Net and was even worried about paying freedom on Paypal (my only transaction on the net). Don't think this will do Shell any good either reading the posts.Serves them right if the garage owners don't check employees vigorously just to save a few quid I think the banks and the shopping/fuel outlets should be the ones who pick up the bill evry time.And pay compensation.

09-05-2006, 08:11	#10
mannyo BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Stevenage Herts. Posts: 11,467 Members Car: Octavia 2.0 TDi Elegance Thanks: 58 Thanked 359 Times in 330 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. I use my cards online all the time, and carry virtually no cash wherever I go. I prefer paying on debit/credit cards, have always been like this. The shell thing is worrying, but no technology is safe. France have had a version of chip/pin for many years, but fraud is now on the increase over there because the system has been cracked. Same thing will happen here to eventually. Spain have the swipe/sign system still in place, but virtually no card fraud. The reason? to pay by plastic you must show you national ID card or passport. __________________ Manny 2005 Octavia 2.0TDi Elegance combi my skoda website http://www.octaviars.co.uk Join the briskoda.net folding team click Here for more info

09-05-2006, 08:31	#11
robmawer Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Rochdale Posts: 12,476 Members Car: Octavia 1.6 Ambiente Thanks: 2 Thanked 74 Times in 67 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. Same as Manny - very rarely have cash on me, do everything via electronic transactions. Have never had anything fraudulent happen, except when I got mugged for my debit card - if it had been cash I'd been carrying, they wouldn't have ever been caught. And if chip'n'pin had been around, they wouldn't have been able to mimic my signature, so probably never would've got anything. Cheques are a nightmare when it comes to cashflow...also, it's hardly like cheques are not prone to forgery or people generally messing with the system. I buy lots of stuff online - ultimately it's more secure than handing your card over in a restaurant, or making a payment over the phone. Though I guess I might be biased on that one what with working for a payment service provider... Rob. __________________

09-05-2006, 08:58	#12
Jon TDI Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: North East England Posts: 3,227 Members Car: SEAT Leon TDI Sport Thanks: 34 Thanked 34 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. I don't like chip & pin at all. Used to love my old swipe card. I think Royal Bank of Scotland were the only ones to issue a card with a photo id & signature laser etched on the back of the card. __________________ Black Magic SEAT Leon 2.0 TDI Sport - Green panel thingy, Upsolute jiggery pokery, Koni FSD/Eibach Pro Kit bouncy stuff, 18" Audi A8 Parabol rims, '08 Cupra black/honeycombe grille. Also driving around in a Mini ONE that thinks it's a Cooper! John Cooper Works airbox, Superchips Bluefin remap, Sprint Booster, 17" Cooper S Spokes

09-05-2006, 09:06	#13
boyced fully boyced. Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,919 Members Car: Octavia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. how did they get the pin numbers? didn't think you could clone the chip and pin chip? __________________

09-05-2006, 09:19	#14
Dr Zoidberg Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: On the back of an AA truck with a failed turbo Posts: 10,745 Members Car: Octavia II 2.0 TDi Elegance Thanks: 30 Thanked 194 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. They didn't clone the Chip & Pin part. A lot of terminals also read the magnetic strip , and it was this that was cloned to make non C&P cards which were used. __________________ Alex "I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away" www.drzoidberg.co.uk

09-05-2006, 09:25	#15
mannyo BRISKODA Staff Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Stevenage Herts. Posts: 11,467 Members Car: Octavia 2.0 TDi Elegance Thanks: 58 Thanked 359 Times in 330 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. As Alex has just said, I think they skim the card in a standard cardreader, then due to the design of the chip/pin terminal they can then see the pin being entered. They then have all the info they need to use a cash machine to withdraw money. __________________ Manny 2005 Octavia 2.0TDi Elegance combi my skoda website http://www.octaviars.co.uk Join the briskoda.net folding team click Here for more info

09-05-2006, 13:36	#16
Goochie Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 12,363 Members Car: Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. I've always thought it should be possible to have 2PIN's on the same card. One for ammounts under £70 and one for ammounts over that and for use at ATM's. You'd have to make it optional as some people cant even remember one numebr But, it'd work for those who wanted to safeguard themselves a little more.

10-05-2006, 08:37	#17
HotVRs Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 413 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Chip & Pin Fraud: Shell petrol stations. Hersmo I think you could be right, I've stopped using cards to pay for anything now and don't buy on the internet anymore. Very sad situation when big expensive schemes still have bloody huge holes in them.

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