Company cars, and tax allowences

gadgetman · 28-08-2008, 21:42

Just been recoded, and desperately trying to sort the tax thief out for bending me over - yet again this year.

Just so I can start checking my version of things, the car ben comes off your personal allowence so it can be taxed on, rather than the ben ammount being owed to the tax man?

I can sort all the other messes out, but for some reason the taxman thinks I have 3 employers, and 3 company cars - yet helpfully wont confirm anything with me - I have to tell them (just incase they've missed screwing me on something me thinks).

***ncarring*** · 28-08-2008, 22:21

The car has a P11D value, which is subtracted from your personal allowance when calculating your code.

The P11D value is a proportion of the sale price including extras, which proportion is calculated from a chart based on the emissions of the vehicle. So simple example - 20k car, with a 27% percentage charge = £5400 taxable value - i.e. enough to wipe out all but £35 of your personal allowance.

Try here for a calculator.

gadgetman · 28-08-2008, 22:28

Thanks. So now I have my sums right and can bash them over their heads.

Really pi55ed me off when I called. So what cars do you think I have, I ask. What cars have you had they say. Why not tell me, after all you're taxing me on them. We cant divulge/discuss the information we have, used to calculate your tax liability.

FFS!

***ncarring*** · 28-08-2008, 22:32

Don't forget the fuel benefit if you claim for any fuel for private mileage - the calculator above has a section on that also.

On the positive side, if you run a car on an allowance, you can claim the difference between your employer's mileage rate and the HMRC rates back on your tax return. There's another chart on the HMRC website that helps in calculating that.

Calculating your P11D return is your employer's responsibility (unless of course you're self-employed, in which case a competent accountant is worth their fee), so if there's a mix-up with cars, make sure your payroll administrator helps you sort it out with the taxman.

**robmawer** · 28-08-2008, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Really pi55ed me off when I called. So what cars do you think I have, I ask. What cars have you had they say. Why not tell me, after all you're taxing me on them. We cant divulge/discuss the information we have, used to calculate your tax liability.

Try phoning back tomorrow - you might end up speaking to someone else who is more willing to help (just my experience of the tax office).

Rob.

gadgetman · 28-08-2008, 22:46

Private usage must be repaid is company line.

Although, no one seems to know how to prove this has happened when I've filled up.

***ncarring*** · 28-08-2008, 22:52

So your employer pays for all your fuel and you have to reimburse them for private mileage? If this is the case you need to provide expense returns, that your employer can produce if inspected, otherwise you're going to be hit by fuel tax. A case in which it's actually in your interest to be honest - unless you get away with so much fuel that it would outweigh the cost of the fuel tax (unlikely).

gadgetman · 28-08-2008, 22:59

TBH, last month was 19 miles usage - and that's about the norm. Come home and dont really go anywhere, and If I do, prefer the Skoda to the works mondy.

The mileage tracking forms details personal mileage, and fuel put in, but not who paid for it.

The only way I can think of having full traceability is to work out cost/mile for fuel that month, and as as a minus pocket expenses claim against all the other stuff paid for (like parking meters etc) so they repay expenses, less fuel used costs????

Or do I just fill up, and say as its derv and does 500+ to a tank, that I've covered it for the year - and then how do I keep the receipt traceable?

Life was easier when I had a works van, and private use was a sackable offense - so no tax liability

***ncarring*** · 28-08-2008, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetman

The mileage tracking forms details personal mileage, and fuel put in, but not who paid for it.

The only way I can think of having full traceability is to work out cost/mile for fuel that month, and as as a minus pocket expenses claim against all the other stuff paid for (like parking meters etc) so they repay expenses, less fuel used costs????

This is how it should work. They should have a mileage rate that you pay back private mileage at, and that should be subtracted from your other business expenses. However they obviously aren't that clued up

loskie · 30-08-2008, 07:45

It's not difficult and thousands of people will do it. just keep a wee note book or diary in the car and keep a record of what miles/journies you do. I am surprised you do not have to do this for monthly expense returns as your employer will have to provide proof to HMRC if requested to verify any claims to them.

gadgetman · 30-08-2008, 22:31

We have a daily log for start/end, total, fuel put in (cost and litres) and private mileage.

Perhaps I'll work out the fuel cost myself and add onto expenses as a minus figure.

Thinking more about filling up and submitting to firm as proof, they'd simply claim the VAT back on fuel they didnt actually buy were my thoughts. Not that they're dodgy bunch, just me being suspicious of everyone as usual.

28-08-2008, 21:42	#1
gadgetman Go Gadget Octy! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,400 Members Car: Thanks: 220 Thanked 117 Times in 110 Posts	Company cars, and tax allowences Just been recoded, and desperately trying to sort the tax thief out for bending me over - yet again this year. Just so I can start checking my version of things, the car ben comes off your personal allowence so it can be taxed on, rather than the ben ammount being owed to the tax man? I can sort all the other messes out, but for some reason the taxman thinks I have 3 employers, and 3 company cars - yet helpfully wont confirm anything with me - I have to tell them (just incase they've missed screwing me on something me thinks). __________________ Lick the window of life Why not join the Briskoda Last.fm group?

28-08-2008, 22:21	#2
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,953 Members Car: 1983 Porsche 928S / 1972 MGB GT Thanks: 16 Thanked 94 Times in 77 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences The car has a P11D value, which is subtracted from your personal allowance when calculating your code. The P11D value is a proportion of the sale price including extras, which proportion is calculated from a chart based on the emissions of the vehicle. So simple example - 20k car, with a 27% percentage charge = £5400 taxable value - i.e. enough to wipe out all but £35 of your personal allowance. Try here for a calculator. __________________ Nick North Wiltshire RoADAR

28-08-2008, 22:28	#3
gadgetman Go Gadget Octy! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,400 Members Car: Thanks: 220 Thanked 117 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences Thanks. So now I have my sums right and can bash them over their heads. Really pi55ed me off when I called. So what cars do you think I have, I ask. What cars have you had they say. Why not tell me, after all you're taxing me on them. We cant divulge/discuss the information we have, used to calculate your tax liability. FFS! __________________ Lick the window of life Why not join the Briskoda Last.fm group?

28-08-2008, 22:32	#4
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,953 Members Car: 1983 Porsche 928S / 1972 MGB GT Thanks: 16 Thanked 94 Times in 77 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences Don't forget the fuel benefit if you claim for any fuel for private mileage - the calculator above has a section on that also. On the positive side, if you run a car on an allowance, you can claim the difference between your employer's mileage rate and the HMRC rates back on your tax return. There's another chart on the HMRC website that helps in calculating that. Calculating your P11D return is your employer's responsibility (unless of course you're self-employed, in which case a competent accountant is worth their fee), so if there's a mix-up with cars, make sure your payroll administrator helps you sort it out with the taxman. __________________ Nick North Wiltshire RoADAR

28-08-2008, 22:46	#6
gadgetman Go Gadget Octy! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,400 Members Car: Thanks: 220 Thanked 117 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences Private usage must be repaid is company line. Although, no one seems to know how to prove this has happened when I've filled up. __________________ Lick the window of life Why not join the Briskoda Last.fm group?

28-08-2008, 22:52	#7
*ncarring* Don't talk, drive! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The B roads of Britain Posts: 12,953 Members Car: 1983 Porsche 928S / 1972 MGB GT Thanks: 16 Thanked 94 Times in 77 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences So your employer pays for all your fuel and you have to reimburse them for private mileage? If this is the case you need to provide expense returns, that your employer can produce if inspected, otherwise you're going to be hit by fuel tax. A case in which it's actually in your interest to be honest - unless you get away with so much fuel that it would outweigh the cost of the fuel tax (unlikely). __________________ Nick North Wiltshire RoADAR

28-08-2008, 22:59	#8
gadgetman Go Gadget Octy! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,400 Members Car: Thanks: 220 Thanked 117 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences TBH, last month was 19 miles usage - and that's about the norm. Come home and dont really go anywhere, and If I do, prefer the Skoda to the works mondy. The mileage tracking forms details personal mileage, and fuel put in, but not who paid for it. The only way I can think of having full traceability is to work out cost/mile for fuel that month, and as as a minus pocket expenses claim against all the other stuff paid for (like parking meters etc) so they repay expenses, less fuel used costs???? Or do I just fill up, and say as its derv and does 500+ to a tank, that I've covered it for the year - and then how do I keep the receipt traceable? Life was easier when I had a works van, and private use was a sackable offense - so no tax liability __________________ Lick the window of life Why not join the Briskoda Last.fm group?

30-08-2008, 07:45	#10
loskie Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 189 Members Car: Octavia SLX tdi Estate/Mk3 MX5 2.0 sport Thanks: 1 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences It's not difficult and thousands of people will do it. just keep a wee note book or diary in the car and keep a record of what miles/journies you do. I am surprised you do not have to do this for monthly expense returns as your employer will have to provide proof to HMRC if requested to verify any claims to them.

30-08-2008, 22:31	#11
gadgetman Go Gadget Octy! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 3,400 Members Car: Thanks: 220 Thanked 117 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Company cars, and tax allowences We have a daily log for start/end, total, fuel put in (cost and litres) and private mileage. Perhaps I'll work out the fuel cost myself and add onto expenses as a minus figure. Thinking more about filling up and submitting to firm as proof, they'd simply claim the VAT back on fuel they didnt actually buy were my thoughts. Not that they're dodgy bunch, just me being suspicious of everyone as usual. __________________ Lick the window of life Why not join the Briskoda Last.fm group?

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