The Death Penalty

Emily-Elizabeth · 02-01-2007, 00:21

This poll is brought on obviously by what has dominated the news for the last few days. Not about Saddam's hanging as such, more the whole topic generally.

Personally I feel that regardless of the circumstances, no one really has the right to end someone's life unless possibly for the purpose of euthanasia.

I could not feel that there is no sence of 'victory' by ending the life of someone who is totally deffenceless and been inprisoned for ages.

What do you think people??

Babs · 02-01-2007, 00:31

if there's no shaddow of a doubt that someone is guilty and they have been sentenced to LIFE (that's LIFE as in 'never ever getting out ever', not 12 years 'life'), then why should we pay taxes just to keep them alive till they die in prison?

just one of the many view points

Emily-Elizabeth · 02-01-2007, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babs

why should we pay taxes just to keep them alive till they die in prison?

But then we pay taxes so useless layabout can live off benefits. I would sooner think that someone is having a nasty exsistance in prison for a nasty crime than a family of useless plebs at home suckling off the state because they can't be ar$ed.

skodaw · 02-01-2007, 00:37

I am in favour of the death penalty - however it would have to be used with caution - prisoners would need to be held for a period of time,maybe 5-10 years to allow for full appeals etc -- in cases where death penalty was given -- would have to have case review to ensure all evidence etc tide up.

I would hate to see someone killed, only to later find they were innocent.

pittVRS · 02-01-2007, 00:38

Why should ending someone's life be the exclusive preserve of the the criminal? I think with murder on the increase that the death penalty should be used as a deterent for other would be murderers.

Fair enough, if someone is a homicidal maniac, the death penalty isn't going to make a difference to what action they take, but the majoroty of murders these days are carried out by young males who think they are gaining some sort of street Kudos amogst fellow gang members by offing some other young male, or it's a case of a drugged up gang kicking some innocent person to death. If these cowards knew they could face the death penalty as a result, I don't think they'd be so keen.

Babs · 02-01-2007, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emily-Elizabeth

But then we pay taxes so useless layabout can live off benefits. I would sooner think that someone is having a nasty exsistance in prison for a nasty crime than a family of useless plebs at home suckling off the state because they can't be ar$ed.

don't get me started on these, please

I would go for if they won't get a job, then ship them off to Iraqistan. maybe they'll get killed (probably by the Americans) and they're no bother to anyone else.

harsh, possibly. but I'm sick and tired of everyone pussy-footing around with all this pollitical-correctness bullsh*t

Kandy · 02-01-2007, 00:55

Unfortunately I don't think we can trust the authorities not to 'find' evidence to convict people beyond doubt if they so wish. If people are wrongly convicted at least while they have life there is hope. What we need is life sentences that mean life. The cost is one the taxpayer should be prepared to pay but then there are ways that prisoners could (and should) repay the cost of their keep - through work, seizure of assets etc. I don't think any fear of punishment acts as a deterrent for murder, few murderers consider getting caught and many are too unhinged to care.

apd007 · 02-01-2007, 07:17

I am in favour of the death penalty for a number of offences, e.g. child murderers, repeat murderers, and even serial rapists etc.

My view is there should be two courts, one court for the normal trial to see if the person was guilty or innocent then, if they are found guilty, another trial to see if the death penalty or a prison sentence.

What is to be gained by keeping someone alive at great expense in a cage? They won't be come a useful member of society if they "are too unhinged to care".

Basil · 02-01-2007, 07:28

It was explained to me by an American Lawyer friend - the US is based that on the legal premise that iut is better that 100 guilty people go free rather than 1 innocent person be punished.
Iraq (for example) is based on the Egyption law that better that all 100 get punished even if 1 innocent person gets punished by error.
The rights of the many are more important than rights of the few. IF you were the kind of person who thought that the worst that could happen to you is free lodging for life, you might be tempted to murder in extreme circumstances. If you know that you would be facing the hangman's noose in all it's terror, you would be less likely to do it.
Someone who has the mindset for taking an innocent life, should not be judged by sweet kind-hearted people like yourself E-E. They should be taken out of the world and spare the government the expense, and the trouble of looking after them. Be as humane as you want, but do it.
Harsh medicine, but murderers are a cancer.
Saddam Hussein killed a friend of my father's - the ex-minister of health for Iraq years ago. I'm Bahraini myself. My father told me what had happened:

There was a meeting where he suggested that Saddam step down for a while. Saddam pulled a pistol and shot him dead in front of the cabinet.
When the dead man's wife called Saddam later, he was charming and reasurred her - "don't worry your husband will be home soon.."
He sent the dead body back to her.

The above is only my opinion, and you know that I'm a tender-hearted person, but it is necessary to protect good people, and that's where you have to make tough decisions. Taking any life is wrong, but if someone has done so, they have lost the right to life themselves.

(rant mode off)
my 2p worth.....
Bas

Mil · 02-01-2007, 08:02

Basil.

Sorry to hear that about your friend's father.

Yet again, in my opinion, it is not up to the hands of man to take a life, no matter the circumstances. Saddam would have been punished for all his crimes eventually, but punishment does not lie in the hands of a human. The state killing Saddam is as good as Saddam killing millions, there is no difference. Murder is murder, and this can never be based on quantity.

Babs · 02-01-2007, 10:54

you're misusing definitions of murder though.

'murder' is a crime, one human killing another unlawfully. it is entirely possible to kill someone within the law, and this should not be treated as murder.

based on what you're saying (and refering to a previous topic) if someone came into your house, and you pushed them down the stairs, causing them to break their neck and they died, you'd be a murderer. everyone else would call you a hero, but in your eyes you'd be a murderer

Lance · 02-01-2007, 11:46

I think we should hang people for driving with their front fog lights on when it isn't foggy.

Lance

Sonic1980 · 02-01-2007, 11:46

Under no circumstances does one person have the right to take the life of another IMO.

Just because the person in question doesnt believe in this is not the point.

Life should not be ssually discarded at the will of a court. Its like playing God.

Taking into account of all the opinions I am still very against the death penalty.
It can be understood, but not excused for a revenge murder by someone who has had a loved one taken away, but not by a court.

The argument where we shouldnt have to pay for them to be in prison, so therefore we should kill them is fascicle. There are other ways which both punish and use those who have done something wrong.

The thought of someone facing hanging is so so barbaric in this day and age...

Thats my bit anyway

ScoobyChris · 02-01-2007, 11:55

I would say re-introduce it. The problem at the moment is prison is not a deterrent and people get out, reoffend and then end up back in prison. Prisons are now getting so overcrowded we need to build more - surely that can't be right?

Costs could be covered by ticket sales, etc - I'm sure there's people out there who would enjoy watching a good hanging!

Chris

ANDREW MARK · 02-01-2007, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by pittVRS

Why should ending someone's life be the exclusive preserve of the the criminal? I think with murder on the increase that the death penalty should be used as a deterent for other would be murderers.

I agree with pittvrs ever night you put on the news to hear about one murder after the other.....There is no deterrent harsh enough to put people off!!!

Babs · 02-01-2007, 11:58

perhaps that's what's wrong with the world then, the world isn't "barbaric" enough.

are you a religious man? if you aren't then you can't say "it's like playing God" really.

ScoobyChris · 02-01-2007, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

I think we should hang people for driving with their front fog lights on when it isn't foggy.

Hanging? Don't be daft! We have the right to shoot at them

Chris

Sonic1980 · 02-01-2007, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babs

perhaps that's what's wrong with the world then, the world isn't "barbaric" enough.

are you a religious man? if you aren't then you can't say "it's like playing God" really.

I wouldnt say religious, it was just a phrase I used!

To fight fire with fire to aact as a deterant is so flawed.

Can you imagine what frame of mind someone has to be in to commit murder or rape?

They dont think of the consequences.

Something more proactive is needed not all these reactive measures...

ScoobyChris · 02-01-2007, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic1980

Something more proactive is needed not all these reactive measures...

Any suggestions?

Chris

Babs · 02-01-2007, 12:44

the laws are meant to protect normal, innocent people.

is it fair that us people are paying for the upkeep of these people? or even the upkeep for them, untill they come out and re-commit.

there is a fundamental problem with the prison system - I know, my girlfriends father is a governor - the punishments aren't working. perhaps if there was the threat of the death penalty, then it may cut down on these crimes. it's better to be either proactive or reactive than do nothing at all, is it not?

that leaked report about prison population mentioned some certain things, such as chemical castration for sex offenders. damn good idea, that. but what about other violent crimes? such as murder, violent assault, tail-gating

?

people are too affraid of upsetting any small minority that they don't bother doing anything at all.

yashicamat · 02-01-2007, 13:02

I voted no and never. I think that criminals could be put to some use, even if it's something like drug trialing.

Babs · 02-01-2007, 13:04

kill the proper lifers in prision and use them to feed the rest of the prison population?

Sonic1980 · 02-01-2007, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScoobyChris

Any suggestions?

Chris

Thats why i put 'something'

Better than mudering people to fix societies problems?

Babs · 02-01-2007, 13:07

again... it's not murder

View Poll Results: Do you think the death penalty is right?
Yes - in extreme circumstances	35	37.23%
Yes - and it should be common practise	33	35.11%
No and Never	24	25.53%
Undecided	2	2.13%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

02-01-2007, 00:21	#1
Emily-Elizabeth Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 3,650 Members Car: Silver Fabia vRS with cruise and 5 disk CD changer as the 6th slot has stopped working. Thanks: 21 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	The Death Penalty This poll is brought on obviously by what has dominated the news for the last few days. Not about Saddam's hanging as such, more the whole topic generally. Personally I feel that regardless of the circumstances, no one really has the right to end someone's life unless possibly for the purpose of euthanasia. I could not feel that there is no sence of 'victory' by ending the life of someone who is totally deffenceless and been inprisoned for ages. What do you think people?? __________________ Last edited by Emily-Elizabeth; 02-01-2007 at 00:25.

02-01-2007, 00:31	#2
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 4,153 Members Car: Skoda Octavia vRS Thanks: 216 Thanked 139 Times in 123 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty if there's no shaddow of a doubt that someone is guilty and they have been sentenced to LIFE (that's LIFE as in 'never ever getting out ever', not 12 years 'life'), then why should we pay taxes just to keep them alive till they die in prison? just one of the many view points __________________ - Andrew Octavia vRS For Sale / Bosch Rotary Polisher For Sale

02-01-2007, 00:37	#4
skodaw Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: This area is under construction - please call back later :) Posts: 3,186 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 2 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty I am in favour of the death penalty - however it would have to be used with caution - prisoners would need to be held for a period of time,maybe 5-10 years to allow for full appeals etc -- in cases where death penalty was given -- would have to have case review to ensure all evidence etc tide up. I would hate to see someone killed, only to later find they were innocent. __________________ Dave '05 Silver Fabia vRS

02-01-2007, 00:38	#5
pittVRS Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Off The Wagon Posts: 5,257 Members Car: MX-5 Thanks: 148 Thanked 113 Times in 79 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty Why should ending someone's life be the exclusive preserve of the the criminal? I think with murder on the increase that the death penalty should be used as a deterent for other would be murderers. Fair enough, if someone is a homicidal maniac, the death penalty isn't going to make a difference to what action they take, but the majoroty of murders these days are carried out by young males who think they are gaining some sort of street Kudos amogst fellow gang members by offing some other young male, or it's a case of a drugged up gang kicking some innocent person to death. If these cowards knew they could face the death penalty as a result, I don't think they'd be so keen. __________________

02-01-2007, 00:55	#7
Kandy Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 582 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty Unfortunately I don't think we can trust the authorities not to 'find' evidence to convict people beyond doubt if they so wish. If people are wrongly convicted at least while they have life there is hope. What we need is life sentences that mean life. The cost is one the taxpayer should be prepared to pay but then there are ways that prisoners could (and should) repay the cost of their keep - through work, seizure of assets etc. I don't think any fear of punishment acts as a deterrent for murder, few murderers consider getting caught and many are too unhinged to care.

02-01-2007, 07:17	#8
apd007 Oops! :( Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The 2nd biggest city in the whole of England. Posts: 3,082 Members Car: Octy II vRS Thanks: 55 Thanked 67 Times in 56 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty I am in favour of the death penalty for a number of offences, e.g. child murderers, repeat murderers, and even serial rapists etc. My view is there should be two courts, one court for the normal trial to see if the person was guilty or innocent then, if they are found guilty, another trial to see if the death penalty or a prison sentence. What is to be gained by keeping someone alive at great expense in a cage? They won't be come a useful member of society if they "are too unhinged to care". __________________ Support Briskoda join Freedom ======> Was :- Skoda 120LSE Yellow 1.2 ~ 60 BHP? Then :- Mk I Skoda Octavia Blueline 1.9 TDi 90 BHP. Now :- Mk II Skoda Octavia vRS Black 2.0 TFSI. 200 BHP.

02-01-2007, 07:28	#9
Basil Hardcore Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bahrain Posts: 3,255 Members Car: Fabia vRS Thanks: 200 Thanked 194 Times in 151 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty It was explained to me by an American Lawyer friend - the US is based that on the legal premise that iut is better that 100 guilty people go free rather than 1 innocent person be punished. Iraq (for example) is based on the Egyption law that better that all 100 get punished even if 1 innocent person gets punished by error. The rights of the many are more important than rights of the few. IF you were the kind of person who thought that the worst that could happen to you is free lodging for life, you might be tempted to murder in extreme circumstances. If you know that you would be facing the hangman's noose in all it's terror, you would be less likely to do it. Someone who has the mindset for taking an innocent life, should not be judged by sweet kind-hearted people like yourself E-E. They should be taken out of the world and spare the government the expense, and the trouble of looking after them. Be as humane as you want, but do it. Harsh medicine, but murderers are a cancer. Saddam Hussein killed a friend of my father's - the ex-minister of health for Iraq years ago. I'm Bahraini myself. My father told me what had happened: There was a meeting where he suggested that Saddam step down for a while. Saddam pulled a pistol and shot him dead in front of the cabinet. When the dead man's wife called Saddam later, he was charming and reasurred her - "don't worry your husband will be home soon.." He sent the dead body back to her. The above is only my opinion, and you know that I'm a tender-hearted person, but it is necessary to protect good people, and that's where you have to make tough decisions. Taking any life is wrong, but if someone has done so, they have lost the right to life themselves. (rant mode off) my 2p worth..... Bas __________________ Fab vRS - Black Magic - PD160 intake - Forge FMIC - colour coded front grille -SLC Splitter - K&N Airfilter -SEAT Strutbrace - Jabba ARB - IC Waterspray (need to wire it in!) - 312mm TT brakes - Eibach Springs - Skoda Reversing sensors - Devonutopia Tuning (tm) Custom Exhaust (2 1/4" straight pipe) - Short shifter mod- 5 brake light mod - Helix Steel SMF + Organic Clutch + pressure plate - Peloquin LSD - TD stage 2 Hybrid - Washbrook remapped ECU - Uprated injectors - Cupra bushes -Poly-filled dogbone - Allard racepipe - Pirelli Dragons - Forge Rear Strutbrace - DIY SS upper boostpipe delete -Koni FSD's - elephant pipe CCV mod

02-01-2007, 08:02	#10
Mil Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United Arab Emirates Posts: 3,801 Members Car: Weichers strut, K&N panel filter, GT bodykit, GT tailpipe, Falken tyres Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty Basil. Sorry to hear that about your friend's father. Yet again, in my opinion, it is not up to the hands of man to take a life, no matter the circumstances. Saddam would have been punished for all his crimes eventually, but punishment does not lie in the hands of a human. The state killing Saddam is as good as Saddam killing millions, there is no difference. Murder is murder, and this can never be based on quantity. __________________ Milton Kyvernitis Private Government

02-01-2007, 10:54	#11
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 4,153 Members Car: Skoda Octavia vRS Thanks: 216 Thanked 139 Times in 123 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty you're misusing definitions of murder though. 'murder' is a crime, one human killing another unlawfully. it is entirely possible to kill someone within the law, and this should not be treated as murder. based on what you're saying (and refering to a previous topic) if someone came into your house, and you pushed them down the stairs, causing them to break their neck and they died, you'd be a murderer. everyone else would call you a hero, but in your eyes you'd be a murderer __________________ - Andrew Octavia vRS For Sale / Bosch Rotary Polisher For Sale

02-01-2007, 11:46	#12
Lance Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NORTHANTS UK Posts: 1,198 Members Car: Thanks: 5 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty I think we should hang people for driving with their front fog lights on when it isn't foggy. Lance

02-01-2007, 11:46	#13
Sonic1980 Briskodian Join Date: May 2005 Location: A hop and a skip from nowhere Posts: 1,603 Members Car: Fabia vRS - Black Thanks: 3 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty Under no circumstances does one person have the right to take the life of another IMO. Just because the person in question doesnt believe in this is not the point. Life should not be ssually discarded at the will of a court. Its like playing God. Taking into account of all the opinions I am still very against the death penalty. It can be understood, but not excused for a revenge murder by someone who has had a loved one taken away, but not by a court. The argument where we shouldnt have to pay for them to be in prison, so therefore we should kill them is fascicle. There are other ways which both punish and use those who have done something wrong. The thought of someone facing hanging is so so barbaric in this day and age... Thats my bit anyway __________________ Fabia v/RS http://www.whf.org.uk Wildlife Heritage Foundation - The Big Cat Sanctuary in Kent. Part of the European Endangered Species Programme (EEP) Big Cat Encounter - Want an idea for a great present??

02-01-2007, 11:55	#14
ScoobyChris Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Andover Posts: 18,195 Members Car: Fiat Panda Thanks: 15 Thanked 336 Times in 290 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty I would say re-introduce it. The problem at the moment is prison is not a deterrent and people get out, reoffend and then end up back in prison. Prisons are now getting so overcrowded we need to build more - surely that can't be right? Costs could be covered by ticket sales, etc - I'm sure there's people out there who would enjoy watching a good hanging! Chris __________________ Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

02-01-2007, 11:58	#16
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 4,153 Members Car: Skoda Octavia vRS Thanks: 216 Thanked 139 Times in 123 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty perhaps that's what's wrong with the world then, the world isn't "barbaric" enough. are you a religious man? if you aren't then you can't say "it's like playing God" really. __________________ - Andrew Octavia vRS For Sale / Bosch Rotary Polisher For Sale

02-01-2007, 12:44	#20
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 4,153 Members Car: Skoda Octavia vRS Thanks: 216 Thanked 139 Times in 123 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty the laws are meant to protect normal, innocent people. is it fair that us people are paying for the upkeep of these people? or even the upkeep for them, untill they come out and re-commit. there is a fundamental problem with the prison system - I know, my girlfriends father is a governor - the punishments aren't working. perhaps if there was the threat of the death penalty, then it may cut down on these crimes. it's better to be either proactive or reactive than do nothing at all, is it not? that leaked report about prison population mentioned some certain things, such as chemical castration for sex offenders. damn good idea, that. but what about other violent crimes? such as murder, violent assault, tail-gating ? people are too affraid of upsetting any small minority that they don't bother doing anything at all. __________________ - Andrew Octavia vRS For Sale / Bosch Rotary Polisher For Sale

02-01-2007, 13:02	#21
yashicamat 114whp per ton Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Macclesfield, Cheshire Posts: 2,669 Members Car: Nissan Primera GT Thanks: 37 Thanked 34 Times in 31 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty I voted no and never. I think that criminals could be put to some use, even if it's something like drug trialing. __________________ Rob Nissan Primera GT in Silver '56 Octy 2 2.0TDi Elegance . . . also gone but not forgotten 2002 Fabia 1.9TDi . . . . gone but not forgotten http://uk.youtube.com/yashicamatonline

02-01-2007, 13:04	#22
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 4,153 Members Car: Skoda Octavia vRS Thanks: 216 Thanked 139 Times in 123 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty kill the proper lifers in prision and use them to feed the rest of the prison population? __________________ - Andrew Octavia vRS For Sale / Bosch Rotary Polisher For Sale

02-01-2007, 13:07	#24
Babs Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Newport/Preston Posts: 4,153 Members Car: Skoda Octavia vRS Thanks: 216 Thanked 139 Times in 123 Posts	Re: The Death Penalty again... it's not murder __________________ - Andrew Octavia vRS For Sale / Bosch Rotary Polisher For Sale

The Death Penalty

The Death Penalty

View Poll Results: Do you think the death penalty is right?