ag.morley

If there is a God.....How come he takes all the nice people first??....

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Taxi 219

Very true
I don,t believe either as religion starts wars.

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Paul

Schern

I'm surprised how many Atheists we have on here. We don't seem to have any evangelists or anyone threatening smiting etc, which you'd have thought a community with the number of members that this one has would have to be in there somewhere statistically speaking.

I'm also intrigued how many people seem to so closely link God with Religion... Saying "I don't believe in organised religion" is not the same thing as saying whether or not you believe in God. Religion and God are very different. Religion is just Man's take on what he thinks God is/wants. And since God seems to remain so silent it's very easy for things to be justified in His name as its what fallible Man think's he would want. Or what Man thinks he can get away with in His name.

I'm definitely with gillywibble when he says "I believe in an intelligent universal entity, but not a bloke in a dress sitting on a cloud." We get too tied up with the whole human take on God and if there is a God there must be a Heaven and Hell. Why? Who says there has to be anything in the after-life? Just because there is a creator doesn't necessarily mean that He's come up with a pension plan for our spiritual wellbeing. Maybe once He finished creating the universe he just left it to get on with it and went on to a new project? Maybe He has a short attention span.

(I've been referring to God as He just because it's easier).

__________________

Mr Wobblytickle

No.
And if there is, and he's the god of the Christian Bible, don't make the mistake of singing his praises.
Here's why (written for a friend a few years back):




Is there a God?
I say “no”.

But just say there is a god, and that god just happens to be the one described in the Christian Bible, then let’s take a look at how He conducts Himself and ask ourselves this irreverent question:
Does He deserve our praise?
And my answer to this, if I am to believe the Bible accurately describes His character, is a resounding “no”.

Why? Well, primarily, He’s a bully.
Picture the scene… in a school playground, a big boy tells a small boy that if he does not hand over his packed lunch he’ll get a punch in the face.
Who would disagree that the big boy is a bully? Hopefully, no one.

Now picture another scene… on planet Earth, God tells Mankind that if he does not love Him then he will suffer eternal torment.
Is there any difference?
Not that I can see.

Perhaps there is just one though — the school bully is actually more compassionate than God as the punishment he threatens is a one-off punch from which the small boy will recover.
In contrast, God threatens an endless barrage of blows.
I despise bullies and the Bible clearly describes God as such.
I, for one, would not worship such a tyrant.

But Christians say that He loves us and wants us all to be saved.
He loves us so much, apparently, that He sent His only son to save us.

There are a few fundamental problems with this assertion, however.
Firstly, if He wants us all saved, then why does/did He not do it?
This could have been done in many ways:
God could have made us incapable of sinning.
But Christians claim this would have negated our ‘free will’ to choose Him and that God does not want robots.
However, we don’t really have ‘free will’ in the first place (only a ‘choice’, such as it is) and those that make it to Heaven are apparently incapable of sinning, so are, in effect, ‘robotised’ after all — for without the possibility that one can commit a sin, where is the free will?

Another way would have been for God to have simply banished Satan and his followers to their own personalised Hell after the rebellion, whereby Adam and Eve would not have been led astray and messed up God’s plan.
Or God could have omitted the Tree Of Knowledge Of Good And Evil from Eden when He was landscaping it.
The tree presented an unnecessary danger, as God warned Adam and Even that if they ate from it they would surely die.

But why put it there in the first place?
So Adam and Eve would have ‘free will’, Christians claim.
No. If the tree had not been there they would still have had free will. How could it be otherwise?
Its presence demonstrates that God, if Adam and Eve were His children, was an awful parent — negligent and cruel.

I have a four-month-old daughter. If I was to put a bowl of bleach in her bedroom, but tell her that she must not drink it, who would disagree that I was a terrible and irresponsible father?
And if I allowed the mischievous kid from next door into my house and allowed him to coax her into sipping some of the bleach, wouldn’t it be time to call in Social Services?
Apparently not, as this is Godly behaviour. And whatever God does it right, right?

In Eden the tree was the bleach and Serpent the mischievous kid.
Adam and Eve were like children and obviously naive. Eve was ‘beguiled’ by the sly Serpent and God held them accountable.
But this is not fair.

If Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil (making them unaccountable), then they would not have been accountable for eating from the tree. They couldn’t have known it was wrong.
The only way to reconcile this is for Christians to claim that they had some knowledge of good and evil.
So, why didn’t God give them more? That way they could have told the Serpent to go slither!

And if all this wasn’t bad enough, it must be remembered that even before God created them, He knew they would fail this ‘test’.
But He let it play out regardless. It was a put-up job.

Now, I might only be a fallible human with a primitive mind and severely lacking in superpowers, but I still endeavour to protect my baby from all that can hurt her.
There are no bottles of bleach in her bedroom and I am careful about whom she meets.
Gradually, as she grows and learns, her autonomy and the access she has to the world around her will expand and my influence will be less keenly felt, but I’ll always try to be there to guide and protect her.
I hope that one day she will tell me she loves me. I hope she will come to this realisation by herself and not, unlike God, because I have threatened her with some gruesome alternative.

As a result of the test in Eden, Adam fell and today we are still picking up the pieces.
Tracing it back, it’s plain to see God was negligent and it is actually Him who is accountable.
Yet, somehow, we have been shouldered with the blame.
How did that happen?

There are many more instances that God is shown to be a monster.
What follows is a look at how God conducts Himself in a range of scenarios.
In them, He plays by His ‘rules’ as set out in the Bible — which He authored.
After reading them I invite you to ponder whether or not He is worthy of your worship and is someone you’d like to spend eternity with — if He even exists, of course.

Some other quick questions:

God is the sustainer of all things and a god of infinite love, yet it is He alone who sustains non-believers in eternal torment. How can this be?

Why doesn’t God create only those whom He knows would come to choose Him of their own ‘free wills’?
This way there is no soul wastage and Hell stays empty.
And how can a mortal man OUT-THINK GOD?

What happens to the souls of children who die?
Are they in Heaven or Hell?
If they are in Hell then God is a monster.
If they are in Heaven then why does not God simply take all the souls He creates straight to Heaven?
If they are just as ‘worthy’ as the souls that take the ‘free will’, biological route, and are not robots despite having not actually ‘chosen’ God, then what need was there for Man?
God’s ‘solution’ results in too much soul wastage.
Mine results in none.
Surely one soul toasting for eternity is one too many?
It never had to happen.
And how can a mortal man OUT-THINK GOD TWICE?

Who chooses who?
Romans 9:15-16
“For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is Not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy”.
It seems here that salvation is down to God’s will and NOT Man’s (supposed) free will (to accept or reject Him).
If this is the case, then we do not choose to follow Christ of our own volition, as we really had no say in the matter.
Circumstances must then be somehow ‘tweaked’ by God so that we find Him in a way that makes us think we had a choice.
Those who end up getting saved were saved all along — and those who don’t, weren’t.
So, why bother either way?
If God wants you, then you’re sorted, but if He doesn’t, then you’re doomed. And there’s nothing you can do about it (and I’d heard God doesn’t want robots worshipping Him).
Kind of puts the devil out of a job too!

Atheists, contrary to popular belief, do not reject God, rather they reject the ‘idea, concept or notion’ of God. To reject God you must know He exists, and if they knew He existed, who would deny Him, save for the insane?
And those apparently insane enough to actually ‘choose’ not to love God, should they not be protected from themselves?

Is there any sin that actually justifies burning in Hell forever? Wouldn’t a billion years cover most transgressions?
And why is it that Hitler will not get any stiffer sentence than someone who has simply not heard The Word, or a Hindu, say?

If you want to get to Heaven you had better pick the right deity from the multitude on offer.
Looks like it’s off to the fiery place with the millions of Moslems, Hindus and other ‘religious deviants’ out there.
But what about those who, through no fault of their own, have not been exposed to Christianity, people without the mental capacity to invite God into their lives, those who have seen nothing to suggest a god and, of course, atheists? Well, they’re all going to burn.
We are all individuals, with varying degrees of intelligence, awareness, self-esteem, mental fortitude, compassion, emotional intelligence, gullibility, integrity, humanity and sanity etc.
Factor in alleged ‘free will’ and it's clear that all men (and women) are not created equal, especially in mind, and as a direct consequence their chances of being saved are not equal either.

My mum was a Christian. Her sons are not.
In Heaven, won’t her eternal life be hell knowing that the three sons she adores are toasting below — forever?
Apparently not, as I’m told that ‘in Heaven there will be no cause of sadness, no tears, only adoration of God!’
So, just what is going on there then?
Some kind of mindwipe, selective amnesia, brainwashing?
Memories and experiences help define who my mother is. I’m sure she’d want to hang onto them.
Unless, of course, they didn’t help shape her after all, and she was pre-determined.
But we have free will, don’t we?

During the conflict in Bosnia I recall reading about a teenage (an age where she is ‘accountable’) girl whose father, grandfather and brothers had been shot by Serbs in front of her eyes when they burst into her home.
She and her mother were later raped, but left to live. I don’t know if she was religious or not.
Perhaps she was waiting for a little more life experience before committing herself one way or the other.
But just say she could not accept that a loving god would have let all this happen to her and so rejected Him. And after what she suffered, who could blame her?
However, if she were to keep this view, then Hell awaits.
Where would be the justice in that?

Why does God order children killed?
When invading Jericho, as instructed by God, the Jews “annihilated with the sword everything that breathed in the city, including men and women, young and old, as well cattle, sheep, and donkeys.” (Joshua, Chapter 6.)
When taking Ai, as instructed by God, the Jews “annihilated all who lived in Ai,” including all of the men, women, and children. (Joshua, Chapter 8.)

God allowed Job to suffer just to prove a point!
Why did God feel obligated to prove anything to the devil?
Why did He let Job suffer?

Yet more noodle-bakers:

If God has always existed and knows past, present and future all at once, why did He go to the bother of creating anything (angels, universe, Man etc) when He would have always known every single thought and action of everything He brought into existence?
What would be the difference between God just thinking about creating and actually doing it?
The moment He thought about it He would instantly know how everything would unfold.
So, what would be served by actually creating anything?
Especially considering the way it turned out!

How can God be omnipotent and omniscient, knowing the future, but being unable to change it?

Is God Omniscient?
He regretted what He created and brought The Flood.
How can an omniscient being regret anything when He has always known what would happen?

Of what use was The Flood when God knew He’d eventually have to send His son to save sinning Man?

Is The Bible Correct?
The Earth orbits the sun. But the Bible says:
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93 “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

An extreme and disturbing example of taking the Bible literally is demonstrated by mountain people in the Appalachians. Their faith leads them to pick up serpents and even stand on them — as it says to do in the Bible.
At their services they not only pick up rattlers and cobras, but then proceed to dance about with them while shouting out verses from the Good Book. If anyone does get bitten, which is often, they do not get anti-venom — only prayers.
Despite the power of prayer many of the congregation have missing fingers through bites and a few of them have even died.
However, their demise is not seen as such a bad thing as God has seen fit to take their loved ones to a much better place. Now that’s what I call faith!
But where does it get the snake ‘charmers’? Dead or short-changed when they buy gloves. Why God has ‘protected’ them on previous occasions and has now seen fit to take them is anyone’s guess.
I’d imagine the grieving families would say it was ‘God’s will’ or that ‘God moves in mysterious ways’. These people are convinced they have interpreted God’s word correctly, but many Christians would disagree.
I wonder just how many Christians are going about their business as God actually wants?
And how many ‘Christians’, despite their best intentions, are not set for salvation?

Why create such a primitive form of life (and just the one, remember) that can barely comprehend the Universe it lives in to seek praise and love from? Why didn’t he create a species more on His own level?

Would we know a god if we saw one? Any alien species that was sufficiently advanced could easily appear to us as gods. But they wouldn’t be gods, would they? But how would we know?
Surely they could pull the holy wool over our eyes and mystify with their control of matter and energy through their amazing technologies.
It would be like modern-day men in helicopters swooping down on Stone Age man and showing off with a few blasts from a flamethrower.
Would we not appear to them as gods? We know we’re not gods, but how would they?
Christians should consider how they’d know God if they met him. How they could know absolutely it was Him?

The power of prayer… when 1.1 billion Catholics recently prayed for the Pope (God’s No. 1 representative on Earth, apparently) to get better, look what happened — he suffered some more and then died.
“Ah, but”, some will say, “it was God’s will that he died”.
OK then, so why pray… ever?
If it’s ‘God’s will’ then it will happen, and if it’s not then you’re wasting your breath.
However, this contradicts what it says in the Bible.
John 14:13 — And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Matt 18:19 — Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

And finally, just what will the saved do for eternity?

Quotes of note:

“As a Darwinian, something strikes me when I look at religion. Religion shows a pattern of heredity which I think is similar to genetic heredity. The vast majority of people have an allegiance to one particular religion. There are hundreds of different religious sects, and every religious person is loyal to just one of those. Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one. Truths about the cosmos are true all around the universe. They don’t differ in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Poland, or Norway. Yet, we are apparently prepared to accept that the religion we adopt is a matter of an accident of geography.”
— Richard Dawkins

“The more you understand the significance of evolution, the more you are pushed away from the agnostic position and towards atheism. Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things.
The great beauty of Darwin's theory of evolution is that it explains how complex, difficult to understand things could have arisen step by plausible step, from simple, easy to understand beginnings. We start our explanation from almost infinitely simple beginnings: pure hydrogen and a huge amount of energy. Our scientific, Darwinian explanations carry us through a series of well-understood gradual steps to all the spectacular beauty and complexity of life.
The alternative hypothesis, that it was all started by a supernatural creator, is not only superfluous, it is also highly improbable. It falls foul of the very argument that was originally put forward in its favour. This is because any God worthy of the name must have been a being of colossal intelligence, a supermind, an entity of extremely low probability — a very improbable being indeed.
Even if the postulation of such an entity explained anything (and we don't need it to), it still wouldn’t help because it raises a bigger mystery than it solves.
Science offers us an explanation of how complexity (the difficult) arose out of simplicity (the easy). The hypothesis of God offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain. It postulates the difficult to explain, and leaves it at that. We cannot prove that there is no God, but we can safely conclude the He is very, very improbable indeed.”
— Richard Dawkins

“Religion is a monumental chapter in the history of human egotism.”
— William James

“The cosmos is a gigantic flywheel, making 10,000 revolutions a minute. Man is a sick fly taking a dizzy ride on it. Religion is the theory that the wheel was designed and set spinning to give him the ride.”
— H.L. Mencken

“We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children are smart.”
— H.L. Mencken

“Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable.”
— H.L. Mencken.

“You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religion. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, quite intelligent enough.”
— Aldous Huxley

“Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.”
— Ambrose Bierce, Devil's Dictionary

“Scriptures, n: the sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.”
— A. Bierce

“Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived.”
— Oscar Wilde

“A casual stroll through the lunatic asylums shows that faith does not prove anything.”
— Friedrich W. Nietzsche

“I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.”
— F. Nietzsche

“Which is it: Is man one of God’s blunders or is God one of man’s?”
— F. Nietzsche

“Woman was God’s second mistake.”
— F. Nietzsche

“If you talk to god you are praying; if god talks to you, you have schizophrenia.”
— Thomas Szasz.

“If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated.”
— Voltaire

“If God did not exist it would be necessary for us to invent Him.”
— Voltaire

“I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reasons, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.”
— Galileo Galilei

“This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.”
— The Dalai Lama

“All human beings have an innate need to hear and tell stories and to have a story to live by... religion, whatever else it has done, has provided one of the main ways of meeting this abiding need.”
— Harvey Cox

“A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes.”
— James Feibleman

“We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love.”
— Jonathan Swift

“In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue, but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.”
— Mark Twain

“The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.”
— Robert A. Heinlein

“Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.”
— R. A. Heinlein

“Men have ascribed to God imperfections that they would deplore in themselves.”
— W. Somerset Maugham

“People fashion their God after their own understanding. They make their God first and worship him afterwards.”
— Oscar Wilde

“That is the whole trouble with being a heretic. One usually must think out everything for oneself.”
— Aubrey Menan

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
— Steven Weinberg

“What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires — desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”
— Bertrand Russell

“Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains.”
— Robert G. Ingersoll

“Hell is an outrage on humanity. When you tell me that your deity made you in his image, I reply that he must have been very ugly."
— Victor Hugo

“Morality is of the highest importance — but for us, not for God.”
— Albert Einstein

“The character of a church . . . can be seen in its attitude toward its detractors.”
— Hugh Prather

“When all has been considered, it seems to me to be the irresistible intuition that infinite punishment for finite sin would be unjust, and therefore wrong. We feel that even
weak and erring Man would shrink from such an act. And we cannot conceive of God as acting on a lower standard of right and wrong.”
— Lewis Carroll

“God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That, sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, 'Do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out.' When a man says this we call him a psychopath and cry out for his imprisonment/execution. When a god says the same, we call him loving and build churches in his honour.”
— William C. Easttom II

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
— Epicurus

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andreiulescu

I think before to belive in God we have to belive in ourself. Do you fully trust your innerself?
Looking at the empty highway in front of you, can you close your eyes for 100 m, and drive peacefully? Only trusting in your senses and beliveing what you saw and what your mind tells you what to do?
Belive in God, i think it is an exercise for those "21 grams" that leave from your body when you die.
I do not think that it is important to focus to belive in God, i think we have to focus to be good. And I do not know how that comes, but when i go to church, all my thoughts find peace and helps me to find the strenght to go back out there and stand in front of all sort of problems that every day brings. I'm also shure that if i'll go to a box match i'm not gonna feel any good impulse.
As I can see on this topic, are belivers and non-belivers. Still no one fights with no one. I guess it is because here are peolpe with common sense. Nothing to do with God. I'm pretty shure that those people which starts wars and conflicts do not have that.

Excuse my very bad english. Also a good prove that how language stops us to share the same thoughts.
Cheers and keep the pedal to the metal.

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Tailhappy

Our very existance is a wonderful thing - it has given us the chance to experience life and become greater than just the sum of our component parts, so it is natural to wonder how we got here etc. Whilst it is good to ponder on such matters, I find it highly implausable that the bible is anything to do with god. Science has explained the great flood and other 'miracles' as simple natural events that have occured in the past and are continuing to occur. I bet the floods in New Orleans would have been written into the bible if that event had happened years ago.

Whilst the chances of there being some form of a 'creator' is fairly high, the chances that the bible are his teachings is extremely low I feel. It is a 'comfort book'.

Why does not humanity follow it's natural and inherant, but smothered instinct to do what is right? We know killing, bullying and other actions are wrong, but instead of listening to ourselves we do unpleasant acts for selfish reasons. Even my cats are better behaved than a lot of humans. When they do something bad like nip me, they know it was wrong and come back and fuss nicely to make up. It comes to something when pets have a better understanding of right and wrong than humans!

TH

Mr Wobblytickle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailhappy Whilst the chances of there being some form of a 'creator' is fairly high...

Hi, TH.
While we agree that any religious text does not describe a supposed creator, why is it that you still believe the chances of there actually being one are nonetheless 'fairly high'?
And if there is 'some form of a creator', who/what created him/her/it?

What would you say to Richard Dawkins if he put the following to you?:
“The more you understand the significance of evolution, the more you are pushed away from the agnostic position and towards atheism.
Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things.
The great beauty of Darwin's theory of evolution is that it explains how complex, difficult to understand things could have arisen step by plausible step, from simple, easy to understand beginnings.
We start our explanation from almost infinitely simple beginnings: pure hydrogen and a huge amount of energy.
Our scientific, Darwinian explanations carry us through a series of well-understood gradual steps to all the spectacular beauty and complexity of life.
The alternative hypothesis, that it was all started by a supernatural creator, is not only superfluous, it is also highly improbable.
It falls foul of the very argument that was originally put forward in its favour.
This is because any god worthy of the name must have been a being of colossal intelligence, a supermind, an entity of extremely low probability — a very improbable being indeed.
Even if the postulation of such an entity explained anything (and we don't need it to), it still wouldn’t help because it raises a bigger mystery than it solves.
Science offers us an explanation of how complexity (the difficult) arose out of simplicity (the easy).
The hypothesis of god offers no worthwhile explanation for anything, for it simply postulates what we are trying to explain.
It postulates the difficult to explain, and leaves it at that.
We cannot prove that there is no God, but we can safely conclude the He is very, very improbable indeed.”

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Beretta

Having lost a grandson......................A definite "NO" from me.

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"HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE"

Tailhappy

Mr WT,

When I speak of the creator, it could be one of so many things. People tend to think of it as an inteligence, but it could also be spoken as the 'creation' - caused by a massive reaction of dark matter or even some sort of rift occurring. Think of the all the work needed to get a neuclear reaction to start - but underground 'reactors' in the bedrock have happened naturally in the past - you just needed the right conditions. The 'creator' may have just been a small electrical discharge that set the whole thing off...

After working with many people of strong religeous belief, it has put me off the subject even more. They have been argumentative, unpleasant and aggressive. After I had just lost my Nan, one Muslim told me that she had gone to hell to burn. Is that supposed to help in some way?

TH

pixi

That sounds like something one of my patients would do because they believe they ARE God!

__________________

pittVRS

...and not scream in terror like your passengers?

__________________

Mr Wobblytickle

Well, The Hoff can... and for miles!
Just another reason why He is.

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