pittVRS

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mluton

I wouldnt wish that on any country.

Thats production of wepons of mass destrustion, gone to far. I cant imagine whats around now the way technology has moved on since Hiroshima.

We will end up blowing our selves up one day.

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Lance

Fascinating but disturbing film, one that's likely to generate a lot of debate.

TeflonTom

heresmo

Generate debate? (quoting Lance). I'm not sure, - I guess we'll see.

Most people will surely have seen or heard enough to understand that WPM cause instant death, destruction of buildings, and the longer term fallout of radiation on people via leukaemia (et al) and land (meaning crops) and will understand that nukular bombs are not good. As does wrecking a country's infrastructure with conventional ("acceptable" non-wpm weapons). I reckon the video is educational for anyone who doesn't yet understand the extreme human and environmental effects of nuclear strikes.

pittVRS, there's an etiquette on serious forums that a poster offers a view rather than throwing something into a pit to see who scrambles after it. Just wondering what point you are trying to make. Some sort of parallel perhaps? It's not for me to second guess you.

Love
Mo

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Goochie

Mo you've made a spelling mistake !!

Tom_vRS

Quick, quote it!!! I need a new signature!

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97/R BMW 328i in Boston Green.

Tom_vRS

Got it!!!

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97/R BMW 328i in Boston Green.

heresmo

Darn - I knew it was only a matter of time before my brain packed in, yet you lot knew it had yonks ago. *must catch up* It seems that Goochie was correct in another thread that peeps are too scared to tell me. I wonder, on that basis, if Bush should log onto Brisky so we can tell him like it is?

Regards
Mo

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KenONeill

Dear all, have you noticed the remarkable resemblance between "Heresmo" and "George 'Dubya' Bush". I wonder if, by any chance, they are related?

KenONeill

Seriously, if you want a factual but chilling account of the effects of a small A-bomb, buy the book "Hiroshima". Amazon linkie:-
Amazon.co.uk: Hiroshima (Penguin Modern Classics): Books: John Hersey

heresmo

Tsk! I keep telling my distant relative to get elocution and spelling lessons as that will make a real difference to world policy decisions, but does he listen?

If you'll forgive me, KenONeill, most people without fresh water, shelter, roadways, lack of (or destroyed) hospitals etc ad infinitum, might not have the ability to watch such link. It would be nice IMO if aggressors just simply stopped. There but for the grace of God go I.

Mo

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Lance

Ken, it's spelt Hiroshima

KenONeill

Mo, that "related" was intended as a joke.

If you're not familiar with the book I cited in my other reply, then perhaps you should be, before criticising my atitude to nuclear war?

heresmo

Can we go back one step or two? I said nukular because that is how dear Mr Bush pronounces it. (Hopefully those who picked up my spelling mistake will have spotted that, even without a wink, or not, as the case may be, given I spelled it correctly later in my post.) Comments as to my spelling isn't really the isssue here, but good on you anyone who got me for that spelling mistake.

My bottom line, as I tried to say, probably in my usual abstruse way, is that nuclear weapons (known as WMD) have an effect that is little different in real terms from the weapons used now which seemingly fall outside of that cateory but have similar effect on the people, environment and infrastructure. I was just asking if anyone thought there was a difference between the two is all.

Re "related", my reply was intended that I understood that. I'm not really related to Mr Bush and I hope the six degrees of separation don't prove me to be wrong.

Regards
Mo

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tfboy

I saw this 18 months ago on french TV when they were commemorating the 60th anniversary of the end of the war. Chilling it was

It scares me even more nowadays with what's going on. I think the cold war was actually a far safer and certainly safer environment than the world we live in today.

Ho hummm

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Xavier

KenONeill

Ok Mo, suggest we declare a formal truce on this one; I thought you were getting niggly about what you'd percieved as an excessively light attitude towards war on my part, and had my back put up by it, cos I'd deliberately linked in a separate post to one of the most sensible and balanced anti-nuclear weapons books I've ever read.

heresmo

I'm awfullly sorry, but I don't see a need to declare a truce with someone with whom I'm not at war. I must be being as thick as two short planks here (probably not for the first time LOL), cos all I've said is that all weapons cause destruction. TBH I don't understand how you've interpreted that as a sleight against you.

Regards
Mo

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Shifty

Forgive me for interuping, and daring to come back to topic..... but yes, an amazingly powerful film.

I don't imagine the crew of the aircraft had any idea what they were doing when they opened up the old bomb bay and dropped a load.

As for there being any debate - I think sufficient time has passed now for most of it to have died down a little.

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Bigw2069

Well on the contrary I believe that the introduction of Nuclear weapons was a necessity, as sad as the losses in Japan were, If they had only been demonstrated in another fashion, but the world now sits up and listens because we have seen the actual event take place.

As for the cold war being a safer time though I disagree, yes just now we have extremists willing to carry out atrocities killing tens/hundreds/thousands of people but step back from the human tragedy that it actually is and its just a ripple on a millpond, to stop wars the scale of WWII happening again our (and other) countries strategic deterrent are doing a fantastic job, and its about time all these bloody hippies that stand outside my work and make me late every day realised that if we didn’t have them then we would be a bitch to anyone that fancied a shot.

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ncarring

There are two sides to every argument. Against the mass destruction of the A-bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki you have to pit the Japanese cruelty in their POW camps and their determination (born in part from their warrior traditions and in part from their worship of their emperor-god) to keep on fighting when the rest of the Axis had surrendered.

I have visited both cities, and there are moving museums in both. It does make you think that perhaps the A-bombs were just too indiscriminate in their effect, but it was a time of more straightforward black and white thinking, and they did bring a speedy end to the war.

The city of Hiroshima speaks out for peace, at every opportunity, these days.

A couple of pics attached - the peace park in Nagasaki, the view upwards from the hypocentre in Nagasaki, and the "A-bomb dome" in Hiroshima (formerly Hiroshima Prefectural Products Exhibition Hall) - about 150m from the hypocentre in Hiroshima, now preserved as a monument.

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Nick

North Wiltshire RoADAR

heresmo

With the world polarised as it is, the black and white thinking on both sides is probably back. There is a new arms race in place. It's currently dispersed, meaning many countries trying to be sure of their own defensive weapons, irrespective of any being developed for the specific purposes of attack. This because no two matching superpowers exist at this moment. I guess inevitably two superpowers will emerge before long and it probably wouldn't take a genius to work out who they'll be.

I see a difference: after the first bombs were dropped, it was indeed a horrendous wake-up call and hence SALT (Strategic Arms Limitation Talks) which in a sentence meant that all should have the same number and all agreed not to use them. (Clearly what was actually held or being developed we'll never know.) Whereas today, it will take a very good diplomat IMO even to get people around a table now, let alone reach any agreement. Even today's news (of armour piercing explosives and dear Mr Bush's reaction) will put paid to that for the time being. methinks.

In terms of the video first posted, it is an example of what man can do when he wants to destroy things and regrettably nothing much seems to have changed since then.

Regards
Mo

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pittVRS

Sorry, I ant been around for a bit, I loooked up Hiroshima after looking at Nick's Pics in another thread about Japan. I knew the story, but after finding this clip I thought it was a pretty effective demonstration of the destruction that was caused.

I missed the original BBC broadcast but I think everyone should know about this story.

Shifty said above that the debate had died down a bit now, which is true to a certain extent and I'd hate to go back to the eighties when we lived in mortal fear of "the commies" pushing the big red button. The public info fillums and animation like "When The Wind Blows" and the TV series really scared me as a kid. But I do think that we need to remember events like this for our own good.

We have different things to be afraid of now and "The Enemy" is a far more complex enigma. A lot of folk don't see Nuclear weapons as a threat any more since the end of the cold war, but with countries like India, Pakistan, Iran, China and Korea stepping up their Nuclear programs, then I think it should be brought back to the public conscience how devastating these moves could be.

My personal opinion is that the smaller countries listed are a lot more unstable and volatile than the old "superpowers" ever were, nd there's a greater threat now than there was back then of someone pushing the button. We just concentrate more on terrorism nowadays.

I suppose its ridiculous in a way to ban big nasty nuclear bombs, yet it's totally acceptable to sell millions and millions of arms and munitions every year. We aint ever going to get along and we aint ever going to stop fighting, I just think we as a species have more of a chance of survival if we agree not to drop nuclear bombs on each other.

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heresmo

In terms of better understanding re the devastation and danger of accidents from nuclear power (let alone waste disposal), whether for weapons or simply generating electricity:

I'm wondering if a current celebrity might come along so that knowledge will reach people today in a way that is not just a history lesson. I guess it'd be too much to ask that opposite sides share safety information, but you never know. Fingers crossed.

That's not said sarcastically BTW, just my best thought as to how to convert what did happen into current thinking as to what might happen again.

I vote for Beckham and Goody as ambassadors of the future LOL. Well heck, who'da thunk that Bob ("I hate Mondays") Geldoff and Jane (Barbarella) Fonda would have made it onto the world stage? Trouble is, today's generation probably don't know who they are. Even Greenpeace seems to be considered a joke by some.

Regards
Mo

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pittVRS

Hmm. "hanoi Jane" really leaves a bad taste in my throat. I am totally against celebrities using their international profile to influence a sensitive political incident such as Vietnam or Iraq. I don't mind if they protest, or demonstrate against these situations, but Jane Fonda went a bit too far by visiting American POW's and publicly denouncing their actions and even reporting to the Viet Cong captors secret messages that they tried to pass to her believeing that she was on their side. (resulting in at least one death afterward). She had very little understanding of the situation and leaned strongly toward the liberal view of US forces killing innocent civilians.
Rules and commmon decency tend to go out of the window in a war situation, and unless these celebrities have ever experienced fighting in a war, then they need to shut up.

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