Job application etiquette

***Neo_VR*** · 02-01-2007, 14:29

as some will know.. im now on the market for a new job..
being that ive done very little of this kinda thing, wondering what tips people have regarding general ettiquete on job interviews etc

eg what to say and what not to say when asked "why do you want to move jobs" i cant exactly say the management are wnakers

mattbeef · 02-01-2007, 15:49

instead use interview bull plop

management were carp = im ready for a new challenge or there was no room for promotion

ap0gee · 02-01-2007, 16:14

Be careful, however, how you phrase your grievances when speaking to your interviewers. I once said that I felt my input to my old work wasn't appreciated by my bosses, and then instantly regretted it as I realised it made me sound like a disloyal, attention-seeking whinger. Needless to say I didn't get the job in question, and learned next time to phrase it along the lines of "I'm looking for opportunities to progress myself by using the skills I've learned in recent years..."

HTH

heresmo · 02-01-2007, 16:33

Hi - this question crops up periodically and I usually post this one. It's a commercial site (trying to sell books) but has a lot of useful info and examples.

Job-Interview.net Interview In Depth Index

Typically, you will have been offered an interview because your strengths per your application form are considered to be a reasonable match, so the interview will be as to whether they like you and how much of your CV you can substantiate.

Ask a friend to interview you about anything (after walking in with a smile and shaking hands), whilst you sit in front of a mirror to see how much you frown, twitch, fiddle with your hands, wave arms about etc. You'll be surprised, I suspect at how tongue-tied you can be, even on your favourite subject, and also how animated or conversely stilted you might appear - relevant re making a reasonable match to the demeanour of your interviewers. etc. etc.

Good luck
Mo

andy2407 · 02-01-2007, 17:09

Col,
I've got a few interview Q&A's that I read up on when I was job-hunting earlier this year.
Its a bit long to post, but if you PM me your email addy I can forward it.
Cheers
Andy

WW_VRS · 02-01-2007, 17:47

Avoid slagging off previous employers, find reasons why THAT job opportunity is the one you want. Do some research in the company, if you are able to get information on it

It sure helps to look the part, not OTT but certainly made an effort, generally decent hygiene and having had sufficient sleep to look awake helps too

Definitely worth promoting some of your work if it is suitable for the position. If you don't go via an agency tailor your CV in order of importance/relevance for the position.

Don't give too much info away but enough to back things up sufficiently to get them interested in finding out more.

Last but not least - be yourself, if you continually try to be 'someone else' and try to change (a lot) between interviews based on a previous one, you might not feel comfortable.

Worth looking into psychometric (sp?) tests just in case they use them.

Good luck with the hunt

***Neo_VR*** · 02-01-2007, 17:49

Heres another Q.. regarding references..

The guy i want to use as a reference from my current company left last week

how can i get around this, because the next boss up is an ****...

Goochie · 02-01-2007, 17:52

Tell them the situation, saying that he was the only person who was your boss and they will most likely be happy to write to him at his home address.

heresmo · 02-01-2007, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_VR

Heres another Q.. regarding references..

The guy i want to use as a reference from my current company left last week

how can i get around this, because the next boss up is an ****...

If you are worth your salt with your current employers, and thus worth employing elsewhere, then your new boss must equally recognise that? (I guess your old boss will have put in a good word if you are thinking of him as a reference.)

Are you saying you don't think the new boss will recognise your talents? I'm thinking that if you can convince a new boss when you're already in the position, you'll have a better chance of convincing an unknown future boss and can then use the new boss as a reference (thus avoiding any cliquely / pals implication?

Best
Mo

texasjohn · 02-01-2007, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goochie

Tell them the situation, saying that he was the only person who was your boss and they will most likely be happy to write to him at his home address.

Indeed.

I did similar (can't use current UK direct report boss as they dont know I am applying, can I use <insert name of trusted senior colleague> for the company I was working with in the US)

Sure, no problems.

***Neo_VR*** · 02-01-2007, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by heresmo

If you are worth your salt with your current employers, and thus worth employing elsewhere, then your new boss must equally recognise that? (I guess your old boss will have put in a good word if you are thinking of him as a reference.)

Are you saying you don't think the new boss will recognise your talents? I'm thinking that if you can convince a new boss when you're already in the position, you'll have a better chance of convincing an unknown future boss and can then use the new boss as a reference (thus avoiding any cliquely / pals implication?

Best
Mo

Basically my "new" boss isnt really a boss... hes been promoted to a senior position without any experience and is currently a big part of my reason for leaving.. hes never written a reference in his life, and he can be very childish.. (when my boss handed his notice in, he didnt speak to him for the rest of the month) - i dont want my chances being reduced by a dodgy reference..

**robmawer** · 03-01-2007, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_VR

i dont want my chances being reduced by a dodgy reference..

Best thing would be to check the company's policy on giving references - a lot of companies these days only permit HR departments to issue references, and it will likely not be much more than a summary of the time you've worked for the company rather than a personal comment on your abilities.

Rob.

***Neo_VR*** · 03-01-2007, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmawer

Best thing would be to check the company's policy on giving references - a lot of companies these days only permit HR departments to issue references, and it will likely not be much more than a summary of the time you've worked for the company rather than a personal comment on your abilities.

Rob.

They dont seem to have a policy on references... nothing on the intranet about it.

I shall double check tho.

**robmawer** · 03-01-2007, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_VR

They dont seem to have a policy on references... nothing on the intranet about it.

Just ask your boss...

Rob.

***Neo_VR*** · 03-01-2007, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmawer

Just ask your boss...

Rob.

Dont be silly.....

He wouldnt know!!

heresmo · 03-01-2007, 16:27

If the company is prepared to offer a reference as to your abilities, why not write a draft bringing out the key points, or even a list of suitable sentences for them to select from? Bosses who don't write references very often can find them taxing and some appreciate the effort this saves them. For such references, it was usual to put "without prejudice" at the top to avoid any possible legal implications, though whether this still works I'm not sure??? As Rob says, it's unusual to see one which says more than just the dates for the duration of employment.

Of course, if you do make a list which isn't used, it could come in handy for positive answers to interview questions.

Regards
Mo

***Neo_VR*** · 03-01-2007, 19:02

Another Q..

Executive summaries..

I know these have (well.. "should") be customised for each job applied for to go on cover-sheets

But ive never written one.. so dont konw where to start

Is it written in 1st or 3rd person?
what information should it contain? (current salary, reasons for wanting to change jobs etc??)

***Neo_VR*** · 03-01-2007, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo_VR

Another Q..

Executive summaries..

I know these have (well.. "should") be customised for each job applied for to go on cover-sheets

But ive never written one.. so dont konw where to start

Is it written in 1st or 3rd person?
what information should it contain? (current salary, reasons for wanting to change jobs etc??)

Can anyone help??

- i have to get this written and emailed out tonight

texasjohn · 03-01-2007, 20:01

I would write it in 1st person, myself.

heresmo · 03-01-2007, 20:09

I think the difference is whether you are presenting directly to a prospective employer (first person) or as a third party (headhunter or agency so they can pretty much pass on as is).

Mo

***Neo_VR*** · 03-01-2007, 20:18

Ok.. ill ellaborate a bit..

Its to send to the recruitment bloke for a coversheet so he can forward on to the prospective employer...

based on that fact, im not sure what i need to include.. wether it should be a full on "please consider my cv for xx role" and wether i should write details into it (current salary etc, reason for leaving old job etc) even tho the recruiter has taken that information.

He has sent me the job-spec to help me customise my covernote but im struggling to start it, let-alone make sentances out of my CV!

JPreston · 03-01-2007, 20:30

You have to write it in 1st person. Otherwise you read like you are The Rock, or Aleksey Vayner (YouTube - The Aleksey Vayner CV Video -

)

If you are writing it for an agent then remember they will re-write it anyway, to 'put it into their corporate format', to do the exagerrating that you were too modest to do and to remove anything that would allow you to be personally identified (they don't want any company to be able to cut out the middle-man and contact you directly). Don't forget they lie to everyone about everything - so they will talk up your experience and capability as much as they talk up what the job entails and how good the prospects are - so it's not worth putting so much effort into crafting the perfect CV.

Don't include details like required salary or reasons for leaving either - leave those for the interview (salary even later).

heresmo · 03-01-2007, 20:42

Time to take control of the situation methinks.

Regards
Mo

***Neo_VR*** · 03-01-2007, 23:14

Well.. tiz done..

Fingers crossed

heresmo · 04-01-2007, 00:02

X X <- Best I can do for fingers crossed.

Mo

02-01-2007, 14:29	#1
*Neo_VR* Om nom nom nom Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 12,480 Members Car: A White Car Thanks: 79 Thanked 175 Times in 124 Posts	Job application etiquette as some will know.. im now on the market for a new job.. being that ive done very little of this kinda thing, wondering what tips people have regarding general ettiquete on job interviews etc eg what to say and what not to say when asked "why do you want to move jobs" i cant exactly say the management are wnakers __________________ ColGod the UberMod ,___, [O.o] /)__) -"--"- ORLY??

02-01-2007, 15:49	#2
mattbeef Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sheffield Posts: 3,362 Members Car: Red Octy vRS Thanks: 36 Thanked 116 Times in 115 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette instead use interview bull plop management were carp = im ready for a new challenge or there was no room for promotion __________________ I few bits here and there but im happy to Performance Torque Go on click me you know you want to

02-01-2007, 16:14	#3
ap0gee ASZ Eternal Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Leafy Chesh-shire Posts: 6,862 Members Car: Black Magic Fabia vRS Thanks: 346 Thanked 366 Times in 317 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Be careful, however, how you phrase your grievances when speaking to your interviewers. I once said that I felt my input to my old work wasn't appreciated by my bosses, and then instantly regretted it as I realised it made me sound like a disloyal, attention-seeking whinger. Needless to say I didn't get the job in question, and learned next time to phrase it along the lines of "I'm looking for opportunities to progress myself by using the skills I've learned in recent years..." HTH __________________

02-01-2007, 16:33	#4
heresmo Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,554 Members Car: Thanks: 50 Thanked 143 Times in 123 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Hi - this question crops up periodically and I usually post this one. It's a commercial site (trying to sell books) but has a lot of useful info and examples. Job-Interview.net Interview In Depth Index Typically, you will have been offered an interview because your strengths per your application form are considered to be a reasonable match, so the interview will be as to whether they like you and how much of your CV you can substantiate. Ask a friend to interview you about anything (after walking in with a smile and shaking hands), whilst you sit in front of a mirror to see how much you frown, twitch, fiddle with your hands, wave arms about etc. You'll be surprised, I suspect at how tongue-tied you can be, even on your favourite subject, and also how animated or conversely stilted you might appear - relevant re making a reasonable match to the demeanour of your interviewers. etc. etc. Good luck Mo __________________

02-01-2007, 17:09	#5
andy2407 Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Upper Ramsbottom Posts: 5,591 Members Car: Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 59 Thanked 224 Times in 181 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Col, I've got a few interview Q&A's that I read up on when I was job-hunting earlier this year. Its a bit long to post, but if you PM me your email addy I can forward it. Cheers Andy __________________ The future's bright The future's mellow Now with a little zest of Washbrook added

02-01-2007, 17:47	#6
WW_VRS Escorted Estate Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oxfordshire/Berkshire Posts: 9,864 Members Car: Ford Escort 1.6LX + Fab Estate Thanks: 46 Thanked 85 Times in 75 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Avoid slagging off previous employers, find reasons why THAT job opportunity is the one you want. Do some research in the company, if you are able to get information on it It sure helps to look the part, not OTT but certainly made an effort, generally decent hygiene and having had sufficient sleep to look awake helps too Definitely worth promoting some of your work if it is suitable for the position. If you don't go via an agency tailor your CV in order of importance/relevance for the position. Don't give too much info away but enough to back things up sufficiently to get them interested in finding out more. Last but not least - be yourself, if you continually try to be 'someone else' and try to change (a lot) between interviews based on a previous one, you might not feel comfortable. Worth looking into psychometric (sp?) tests just in case they use them. Good luck with the hunt __________________ WW --->> Project Journal (pic links in first post there) Lummox'/Ross thread on Unit18 Automotive progress on my car: here

02-01-2007, 17:49	#7
*Neo_VR* Om nom nom nom Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 12,480 Members Car: A White Car Thanks: 79 Thanked 175 Times in 124 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Heres another Q.. regarding references.. The guy i want to use as a reference from my current company left last week how can i get around this, because the next boss up is an **... __________________ ColGod the UberMod** ,___, [O.o] /)__) -"--"- ORLY??

02-01-2007, 17:52	#8
Goochie Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 12,363 Members Car: Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Tell them the situation, saying that he was the only person who was your boss and they will most likely be happy to write to him at his home address.

03-01-2007, 16:27	#16
heresmo Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,554 Members Car: Thanks: 50 Thanked 143 Times in 123 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette If the company is prepared to offer a reference as to your abilities, why not write a draft bringing out the key points, or even a list of suitable sentences for them to select from? Bosses who don't write references very often can find them taxing and some appreciate the effort this saves them. For such references, it was usual to put "without prejudice" at the top to avoid any possible legal implications, though whether this still works I'm not sure??? As Rob says, it's unusual to see one which says more than just the dates for the duration of employment. Of course, if you do make a list which isn't used, it could come in handy for positive answers to interview questions. Regards Mo __________________

03-01-2007, 19:02	#17
*Neo_VR* Om nom nom nom Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 12,480 Members Car: A White Car Thanks: 79 Thanked 175 Times in 124 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Another Q.. Executive summaries.. I know these have (well.. "should") be customised for each job applied for to go on cover-sheets But ive never written one.. so dont konw where to start Is it written in 1st or 3rd person? what information should it contain? (current salary, reasons for wanting to change jobs etc??) __________________ ColGod the UberMod ,___, [O.o] /)__) -"--"- ORLY??

03-01-2007, 20:01	#19
texasjohn Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West Midlands Posts: 1,677 Members Car: BMW Z4 3.0i SMG Thanks: 3 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette I would write it in 1st person, myself. __________________ Xbox 360 gamertag: TexasJohn74.

03-01-2007, 20:09	#20
heresmo Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,554 Members Car: Thanks: 50 Thanked 143 Times in 123 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette I think the difference is whether you are presenting directly to a prospective employer (first person) or as a third party (headhunter or agency so they can pretty much pass on as is). Mo __________________

03-01-2007, 20:18	#21
*Neo_VR* Om nom nom nom Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 12,480 Members Car: A White Car Thanks: 79 Thanked 175 Times in 124 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Ok.. ill ellaborate a bit.. Its to send to the recruitment bloke for a coversheet so he can forward on to the prospective employer... based on that fact, im not sure what i need to include.. wether it should be a full on "please consider my cv for xx role" and wether i should write details into it (current salary etc, reason for leaving old job etc) even tho the recruiter has taken that information. He has sent me the job-spec to help me customise my covernote but im struggling to start it, let-alone make sentances out of my CV! __________________ ColGod the UberMod ,___, [O.o] /)__) -"--"- ORLY??

03-01-2007, 20:30	#22
JPreston Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hertfordshi-yer Posts: 944 Members Car: Octavia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette You have to write it in 1st person. Otherwise you read like you are The Rock, or Aleksey Vayner (YouTube - The Aleksey Vayner CV Video - ) If you are writing it for an agent then remember they will re-write it anyway, to 'put it into their corporate format', to do the exagerrating that you were too modest to do and to remove anything that would allow you to be personally identified (they don't want any company to be able to cut out the middle-man and contact you directly). Don't forget they lie to everyone about everything - so they will talk up your experience and capability as much as they talk up what the job entails and how good the prospects are - so it's not worth putting so much effort into crafting the perfect CV. Don't include details like required salary or reasons for leaving either - leave those for the interview (salary even later).

03-01-2007, 20:42	#23
heresmo Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,554 Members Car: Thanks: 50 Thanked 143 Times in 123 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Time to take control of the situation methinks. Regards Mo __________________

03-01-2007, 23:14	#24
*Neo_VR* Om nom nom nom Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 12,480 Members Car: A White Car Thanks: 79 Thanked 175 Times in 124 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette Well.. tiz done.. Fingers crossed __________________ ColGod the UberMod ,___, [O.o] /)__) -"--"- ORLY?? Last edited by Neo_VR; 03-01-2007 at 23:47.

04-01-2007, 00:02	#25
heresmo Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,554 Members Car: Thanks: 50 Thanked 143 Times in 123 Posts	Re: Job application etiquette X X <- Best I can do for fingers crossed. Mo __________________