Job Evaluation - The Aftermath

Gwilo · 10-01-2007, 12:03

Two years ago, the Uni signed up to HERA job evaluation. I went through the process, which entailed a 14 point, 28 page form to be filled in with my then line manager and reviewed by a HERA specialist - who couldn't understand a single concept or process I do.

However, form filled and submitted, nothing more was really heard apart from various slipped deadlines for publication of new gradings.

Well I got my letter this morning.
My job got graded at 303 points.
Sounds ok till you look at the scales and given the new projects and roles taken on, I'm currently at 480. The letter didn't even tell me how I could appeal this, given it's based on a two year old job description and I've changed roles since then.

Pay protection runs for 4 years, though years 3 and 4 have no cost of living increases (surely illegal?) and as this grading is retrospective from August 2006, I'm part way through my 1st years protection.

It basically smacks of a 12 month redundancy note - can they seriously expect someone to stay in the job when you literally cut 30% from their salary?

I'd started looking for a new job casually last week, but now i'm serious.

Choose your own expletive.

mluton · 10-01-2007, 12:11

I dont understand most of what you wrote sorry, but we havent had a cost of living rise for 2 years now as the company was bought out by the managers.

dont think its illegal ??????

Hopefully this year we will see one.

TKW · 10-01-2007, 12:13

Sounds a lot like the NHS Agenda for Change.

Just a case of reading the guidelines and then "playing the system" although it sounds a bit like you might have missed the boat.

'Phone HR and see what their re-evaluation / appeal system is.

AndyC · 10-01-2007, 13:30

HERA? Is that the Hay evaluation process?

This is used by the company I work for -UK Bank- and no-one has ever been able to explain cleary how the score for each job is calculated. I've tried looking on the web and local library for a laymans guide but never found anything I could understand. If your job has changed since the assesment, then it needs to be reassesed.

Andy

Gwilo · 10-01-2007, 14:19

WEll I'll be asking my new line manager about re-assessing - i'm now doing what i did before but a whole heap of extra roles of which i'm the sole person providing them.
And yes, there appears to be no logic to how the scores are arrived at, given that a colleague who is essentially just editing text on a few websites and creating newsletters with a small amount of hading out SQL passwords and id's to 60 students got a score of 427.......

**JaneC** · 10-01-2007, 14:37

It does sound awfully like Agenda for Change (the NHS scheme). I'm on protected pay, so basically no cost of living increases until the pay band catches up with my actual salary.

Part of the problem is that the jobs are graded by a panel who have absolutely no idea of some of the roles.

There must be a way of getting it looked it and/or revising your job description to get it regraded surely ?

TKW · 10-01-2007, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneC

It does sound awfully like Agenda for Change (the NHS scheme). I'm on protected pay, so basically no cost of living increases until the pay band catches up with my actual salary.

Oooh. Are you another NHS techie? Helluva job trying to explain my role to the panel, but I got there in the end

ZootyRS · 10-01-2007, 16:16

Very sorry to hear that Gwilo

We've been through the HERA thing too, although it sounds like our place made a better fist of it than yours. Forms filled in summer 2005, results early last year, and the whole thing implemented over the summer.

We in IT were very worried about the outcome because, as you say, the role analysts simply can't understand the technical concepts and processes involved. In the end everyone in our section was transferred to the new scale at their current salary level (actually slightly higher). Those on the old scale 1 (new starters) lost out slightly on holiday entitlement, but that was about it. Those that saw the exercise as a means to promotion were bitterly disappointed.

Suggest you find out what appeals procedure is available and start proceedings asap. Hopefully they'll let you resubmit based on your new role. Make sure you emphasise:
- areas of responsibilty
- decision making
- specialist technical knowledge
- decision making
- teaching/training/coaching others
- decision making

These should help your score a bit, possibly a lot.

**JaneC** · 10-01-2007, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKW

Oooh. Are you another NHS techie? Helluva job trying to explain my role to the panel, but I got there in the end

Sort of - I work in Information for a Cancer Network. The first job panel were asking things like "Did I go and fix pcs". :sigh:

thirty3 · 10-01-2007, 19:09

Yeah the funny thing about job evauation is someone doing your job cannot grade you because they would be bias to give themselves a pay increase yet if they do not grade the job people dont usually under the role properly....

APPEAL is your only choice...failure to tell you you can appeal is not your problem.

If your grade says you should be getting £X amount and you were getting overpaid for the evaluated grade they freeze your pay so for 4 yrs yours is frozen....if all the rest on that grade do not catch up in the 4 years the protection stops and your money drops to the same as others. What has your line manager said about the extra roles you have taken on....if these roles require specific training/certificates/licience then you aquire more points why did they not give you a raise to that new grade ?

But you have to be careful if someone on your grade in say another dept is doing these extra roles you have been given before you were that does not necessarily mean you should get extra because their regraded salary takes the extra roles into account.

Failure in appeal doen not mean the end either......union may help.....but the best is a solicitor because he is on an earner...... As a last resort of course you gotta work there ...lol. But if you think u may leave you have nothing to lose and respect to gain.

#

I;ve just read the other posts and have repeated what others have said...lol

Gwilo · 10-01-2007, 20:04

WEll i don't go back till 22nd, but I'll be giving my line manager a thorough talking to about appealing it - because i'm not in that job anymore, the figures are based on something two years old.

I had someone else on the phone about it, and they've explained the freezing and protection better than HR/Personnel, who did their usual half-assed job. I'd like to go other there and grade them.....

pixi · 10-01-2007, 20:10

Don't even get me started on AFC

***ncarring*** · 10-01-2007, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwilo

I'd like to go other there and grade them.....

... and as we know, graded grains make finer flour!

Joe, I feel for you, despite my feeble attempt at levity. Being undervalued seems to be a way of life in British working environments these days ...

WW_VRS · 10-01-2007, 20:42

I am still looking forward to cost of living levels of increases to my salary. That would mean a minimum of 5% annual increase gross. Last time I saw that was when I changed jobs...

Strangely this may lead to me looking around for a better paid, fewer working hours job this year too...

JPreston · 10-01-2007, 20:47

What's all this 'pay protection' business? Do public-sector workers who are on too high a salary not have to take a pay cut or redundancy, but instead just stop getting annual rises until inflation causes the rest of the country to catch up?

I can understand that the adjudication process would put a lot of noses out of joint but at the risk of sounding like Norman Tebbit, that doesn't sound too bad all in all. What stops them from just quitting anyway

**mannyo** · 10-01-2007, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPreston

What's all this 'pay protection' business? Do public-sector workers who are on too high a salary not have to take a pay cut or redundancy, but instead just stop getting annual rises until inflation causes the rest of the country to catch up?

That just about covers it. Because you wouldnt want to give anyone a paycut there and then, so they just get no payrise till the rest catches up.

thirty3 · 10-01-2007, 22:13

Yeah pay freeze till others catch up until your protection runs out and you drop down to their rate. In the above case 4yrs.

Yeah the appeal process puts noses out it costs money and they have to do the appeal properly.....the more appeals the more the cost.

10-01-2007, 12:03	#1
Gwilo Undercover Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 3,687 Members Car: Rustwagon Thanks: 17 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Job Evaluation - The Aftermath Two years ago, the Uni signed up to HERA job evaluation. I went through the process, which entailed a 14 point, 28 page form to be filled in with my then line manager and reviewed by a HERA specialist - who couldn't understand a single concept or process I do. However, form filled and submitted, nothing more was really heard apart from various slipped deadlines for publication of new gradings. Well I got my letter this morning. My job got graded at 303 points. Sounds ok till you look at the scales and given the new projects and roles taken on, I'm currently at 480. The letter didn't even tell me how I could appeal this, given it's based on a two year old job description and I've changed roles since then. Pay protection runs for 4 years, though years 3 and 4 have no cost of living increases (surely illegal?) and as this grading is retrospective from August 2006, I'm part way through my 1st years protection. It basically smacks of a 12 month redundancy note - can they seriously expect someone to stay in the job when you literally cut 30% from their salary? I'd started looking for a new job casually last week, but now i'm serious. Choose your own expletive. __________________

10-01-2007, 12:11	#2
mluton Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: South Birmingham Posts: 6,400 Members Car: Red Octavia vRS 1.8T (20v) Thanks: 46 Thanked 226 Times in 201 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath I dont understand most of what you wrote sorry, but we havent had a cost of living rise for 2 years now as the company was bought out by the managers. dont think its illegal ?????? Hopefully this year we will see one. __________________ Support Briskoda----------------------> Red Skoda Octavia V//RS Mods to date: Carbonio CAI Forge 007 DV Aero Wipers Briskoda Stickers KVW100 GB Wheel Inserts RS Tuning Remap Delocked Piper Cat Back Kenwood KDC-W6541U Fli Twin 12" Active Sub Parrot CK3100 *------------------------------------------------*

10-01-2007, 12:13	#3
TKW Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 968 Members Car: Thanks: 11 Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath Sounds a lot like the NHS Agenda for Change. Just a case of reading the guidelines and then "playing the system" although it sounds a bit like you might have missed the boat. 'Phone HR and see what their re-evaluation / appeal system is. __________________ Octavia 4x4

10-01-2007, 13:30	#4
AndyC who...? Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 415 Members Car: Thanks: 3 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath HERA? Is that the Hay evaluation process? This is used by the company I work for -UK Bank- and no-one has ever been able to explain cleary how the score for each job is calculated. I've tried looking on the web and local library for a laymans guide but never found anything I could understand. If your job has changed since the assesment, then it needs to be reassesed. Andy __________________ 1999 Octavia 1.6 GLXi. Oldest one owner Octy on the forum. 2007 07 Fabia 2 1.2 in Silver. Briskoda's first new Fabia.

10-01-2007, 14:19	#5
Gwilo Undercover Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 3,687 Members Car: Rustwagon Thanks: 17 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath WEll I'll be asking my new line manager about re-assessing - i'm now doing what i did before but a whole heap of extra roles of which i'm the sole person providing them. And yes, there appears to be no logic to how the scores are arrived at, given that a colleague who is essentially just editing text on a few websites and creating newsletters with a small amount of hading out SQL passwords and id's to 60 students got a score of 427....... __________________

10-01-2007, 14:37	#6
JaneC Beeming Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Essex Posts: 3,294 Members Car: Blue Z3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath It does sound awfully like Agenda for Change (the NHS scheme). I'm on protected pay, so basically no cost of living increases until the pay band catches up with my actual salary. Part of the problem is that the jobs are graded by a panel who have absolutely no idea of some of the roles. There must be a way of getting it looked it and/or revising your job description to get it regraded surely ? __________________ Jane.

10-01-2007, 16:16	#8
ZootyRS Frustrated Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: It's grim Posts: 1,948 Members Car: Passat by day, Octy RS by night Thanks: 18 Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath Very sorry to hear that Gwilo We've been through the HERA thing too, although it sounds like our place made a better fist of it than yours. Forms filled in summer 2005, results early last year, and the whole thing implemented over the summer. We in IT were very worried about the outcome because, as you say, the role analysts simply can't understand the technical concepts and processes involved. In the end everyone in our section was transferred to the new scale at their current salary level (actually slightly higher). Those on the old scale 1 (new starters) lost out slightly on holiday entitlement, but that was about it. Those that saw the exercise as a means to promotion were bitterly disappointed. Suggest you find out what appeals procedure is available and start proceedings asap. Hopefully they'll let you resubmit based on your new role. Make sure you emphasise: - areas of responsibilty - decision making - specialist technical knowledge - decision making - teaching/training/coaching others - decision making These should help your score a bit, possibly a lot. __________________ My goal is to replace my soul with coffee and become immortal

10-01-2007, 19:09	#10
thirty3 Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 147 Members Car: Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath Yeah the funny thing about job evauation is someone doing your job cannot grade you because they would be bias to give themselves a pay increase yet if they do not grade the job people dont usually under the role properly.... APPEAL is your only choice...failure to tell you you can appeal is not your problem. If your grade says you should be getting £X amount and you were getting overpaid for the evaluated grade they freeze your pay so for 4 yrs yours is frozen....if all the rest on that grade do not catch up in the 4 years the protection stops and your money drops to the same as others. What has your line manager said about the extra roles you have taken on....if these roles require specific training/certificates/licience then you aquire more points why did they not give you a raise to that new grade ? But you have to be careful if someone on your grade in say another dept is doing these extra roles you have been given before you were that does not necessarily mean you should get extra because their regraded salary takes the extra roles into account. Failure in appeal doen not mean the end either......union may help.....but the best is a solicitor because he is on an earner...... As a last resort of course you gotta work there ...lol. But if you think u may leave you have nothing to lose and respect to gain. # I;ve just read the other posts and have repeated what others have said...lol

10-01-2007, 20:04	#11
Gwilo Undercover Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 3,687 Members Car: Rustwagon Thanks: 17 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath WEll i don't go back till 22nd, but I'll be giving my line manager a thorough talking to about appealing it - because i'm not in that job anymore, the figures are based on something two years old. I had someone else on the phone about it, and they've explained the freezing and protection better than HR/Personnel, who did their usual half-assed job. I'd like to go other there and grade them..... __________________

10-01-2007, 20:10	#12
pixi Naughty Pix! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Writing in these boxes is soooo last year! Posts: 6,307 Members Car: 06 Fabia vrs Thanks: 106 Thanked 93 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath Don't even get me started on AFC __________________

10-01-2007, 20:42	#14
WW_VRS Escorted Estate Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oxfordshire/Berkshire Posts: 9,864 Members Car: Ford Escort 1.6LX + Fab Estate Thanks: 46 Thanked 85 Times in 75 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath I am still looking forward to cost of living levels of increases to my salary. That would mean a minimum of 5% annual increase gross. Last time I saw that was when I changed jobs... Strangely this may lead to me looking around for a better paid, fewer working hours job this year too... __________________ WW --->> Project Journal (pic links in first post there) Lummox'/Ross thread on Unit18 Automotive progress on my car: here

10-01-2007, 20:47	#15
JPreston Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Hertfordshi-yer Posts: 944 Members Car: Octavia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath What's all this 'pay protection' business? Do public-sector workers who are on too high a salary not have to take a pay cut or redundancy, but instead just stop getting annual rises until inflation causes the rest of the country to catch up? I can understand that the adjudication process would put a lot of noses out of joint but at the risk of sounding like Norman Tebbit, that doesn't sound too bad all in all. What stops them from just quitting anyway

10-01-2007, 22:13	#17
thirty3 Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 147 Members Car: Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Job Evaluation - The Aftermath Yeah pay freeze till others catch up until your protection runs out and you drop down to their rate. In the above case 4yrs. Yeah the appeal process puts noses out it costs money and they have to do the appeal properly.....the more appeals the more the cost.

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