Chris GB

Hi to All

Just wondering about something really odd that happened yesterday. I was just finishing a driving lesson when I noticed a bit of a bright spot in my vision and assumed I had looked at a reflection of the sun off something for a bit too long. Both eyes seemed to be similarly affected.

While I was trying to complete the pupils record card, I found this bright spot sort of grew into a sort of chevron shaped set of "shears" across my vision affecting the left hand side of my field of view (again still in both eyes).I found it nearly impossible to read what I was trying to write and eventually could not continue to write at all as the effect got pretty severe. By now I was almost incapable of reading anything printed or otherwise. The disturbance also affected my vision generally and made it impossible to drive safely. The best descrition I can give of the disturbance is that it was like everything to the left of my optical axis seemed to be jumbled up and moving about. No colour disturbance at all.

After a few minutes, the problem started to reduce in severuity and 3 minutes later I was able to drive home. I got in, had a hot drink, went off to sleep and woke an hour or two later with a mild headache. Not had anything odd happen since.

Anyone any ideas on this one? I have had problems with my neck recently due to a torn deltoid causing me to hold myself in an unbalanced way. This has knocked on to slight headaches. Also been on a bit of a diet, but nothing too extreme, certainly not enough to feel tired or fatigued. I am eating a mixed and balanced intake. Only other thing that may be a factor was that I was possibly a bit dehydrated. I have never had migrains or headaches in general.

Chris

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Mr Grumpy

If you have held your head in an unusual position for any length of time, you will have trapped several small veins in your neck.
This could have led to oxygen starvation in any number of veins that connect to your ears, eyes sinuses etc.
This in turn could lead to a minute rupture in any of said veins when oxygen/pressure is restored due to you holding your head normally again.
This could affect you eyesight/ hearing/balance in any number of ways.
I would check the affected eye in the morning, or dinner time, as it's morning now and look for blood spots etc and check your vision and balance.
Finally, and I know it's going to be a pain in the bum, but, go to A&E and explain your symptoms and problem.
After all, I'm not a qualified doctor..........
HTH Dr (not) Grumpy, resident drunken Briskodian medical and mental health advisor

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Chris GB

Hi

As this happened around 36 hours ago, I am keeping an eye out for any further symptoms. So far, nothing to report. The effect was in both eyes so would assume it to be a function or mis function of the brain.

Generally I am not holding my head in any odd position, but rather am having to hold my arm in an unusual way. Seems to hurt like hell when I just sit in the car or anywhere where the weight of it is not supported.

Chris

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Basil

Hiya Chris

BTW, Doc Grumpy is spot on!

Good description! - what you are describing is pretty classical for "migraine equivalent", the visual disturbance that occurs related to migraines. Can occur even without the headache, and without a history of classical headaches.

The points that indicate this are: chevron pattern, occuring in the same visual field region both eyes, increasing in intensity and leaving you later with a mild headache. A torn deltoid would deffo be a precipitating factor here. Left-sided visual field indicates Right-sided blood vessels going into a mild spasm (with later dilatation) as in migraine.
As people get older they tend to get less migraine headaches and more "migraine equivalent" attacks. You sound pretty cool about it - most people tend to freak out the first time they get it!
An ophthalmologist who would examine both eyes fully as a matter of routine. If you get repeated worsening attacks, most North American-trained people would get an MRI or CT as well. Pretty unlikely to need this here, as you have a good reason for this happening (the torn muscle).
As a precaution, especially if you are over 40 and smoke (?) is to take one "baby asprin" (enteric coated 75 or 81mg) per day to help blood flow. Even if you are taking anti-inflammatories for the muscle.
Things like eating Chocolates, nuts, aged cheeses, drinking red wine, and stressors (!) can contribute.
(I was lucky to have worked in Neuro-ophthalmology in Canada for some time, and see this complaint on a regular basis at work....)

HTH Mate

Cheers,
Bas

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Octygone

Get exactly the same thing ....very pretty chevrons etc. when I feel it coming on I take paracetamol and stay quiet for about twenty minutes and it will go off.

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MrBump

I get this fairly often too, mentioned it to my GP a couple of years ago and he said it was indicative of a migraine. Usually lasts no more than 30 mins.

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heresmo

I'd think a trip to the doc and to the optician wouldn't be a bad idea. It might be that or something else. Either way, you'd need to know, or would feel comforted by knowing, how you could know when such an event might occur (any why of course).

If you have any pain in your temples, I'd say that wasn't good, by the way.

Regards
Mo

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Chris GB

Hi to All

Thank you all very much for your replies. I will see the doctor next week as the arm is really playing up and making my neck and shoulder joint painful to the point of impeding function. Driving hurts like hell. I really dont hold with taking painkillers for extended periods of time. The body hurts to stop you doing further damage, so will try and stay off them.

Chocolate and nuts, hmm, well I did have a very small amount of chocolate and a few nuts about two hours previous.

It would appear that it is related to the neck and back condition, and I did suspect that at the time. Obviously there are other things that can go wrong. Stroke is a possibility, but the fact that it resolved itself so quickly makes me think otherwise. Did check my BP when I got home afterwards and found a nice 118/73, so unlikely. Even if it was a stroke, not much point in getting over excited about it as once you know it has happened it is too late. There are worse things than stroke as well.

It was a bit odd seeing the effects of this for the first time. Managed to keep it together well enough to finish off the pupils record card and book the next appointment, but it was a bit concerning / distracting. Not to mention bloody irritating. Had to wait a while before driving home. Getting out of the car and having a good stretch / limber up helped it go off quickly I reckon. I dont really seem to get bothered by much in general. Suppose I have a high risk threshold, so dont panic easily.

Will let you all know what the doc says.

Chris

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Chris GB

Hi Mo

No pain in my temples thankfully. Had a sleep and just had a slight headache afterwards.

Chris

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heresmo

Very glad to hear that.

Best regards

Mo

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stevenh

What you have described, the vision defects, followed by headache is something I have suffered from for MANY years!

I used to get the vision defects (often referred to as 'Aura') mildy, then thumping migraines, nausea, tiredness which would floor me for the next 24 hours.

This used to occur roughly every 6 months, but has gotten worse over the years.

This year, I started getting them about every 2 weeks! The aura has increased greatly in intensity, and the headaches have subsided somewhat but still very unpleasant.

I had my eyes checked - fine, well slightly long-sighted but nothing that would trigger the attacks.

Been to the Docs many times - when I feel an attack coming on, I take a tablet called Naratriptan which can help - it works by slowing down the release of blood once the blood vessels that have constricted (causing the Aura) ease open again - this rush of blood is what causes the migraine.

I am now taking a very small dosage of anti-depressants (Amatriptyline) one a night as they have a side effect of helping prevent migraines. It is now 31 days (shhh) since my last attack.

If you get more of these, there is a plethora of info available from the Migraine Trust - register with them and you can get lots of white papers, leaflets on various aspects of migraine.

Cheers,
Steven.

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TaviaRS

My brother in law had something similar about 6 years ago, saw a doctor who said don't worry. Moved house about 4 years ago and got declined on his life policy upgrade (for bigger mortgage). When he queried it, the insurance company explained that because he'd had an "incident" of MS he could no longer upgrade his existing policy but could take one out on special terms

He said he hadn't, but the doctor had written MS episode on his record. Went to a neurolgist to get checked out and they confirmed that he has MS even though he has had no further episodes.

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Chris GB

Thanks for the follow up guys. Cant see a diagnosis on MS from those symptoms without further testing.

So far, I have had no further problems. The shoulder / deltiod has finally stopped hurting and my neck has got back to normal.

Chris

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national

Get to a Doctor and quickly
It is classic symptoms of a TIA. The milder ones before a major STROKE
it could be "just" migraine but you stated that it was on one side of sight
that puts it as a TIA

I had the same and put it down to tiredness as,as a field service engineer I was driving over 300 miles a day around jobs, until one day the two minute version never went away and I was blind

Fortunately I was only blind for four months then my vision returned except for two blind spots at bottom right of vision, no licence no driving no car = no job

Two years on DVLA after lots of tests have returned my licence and I have found other work

BUT I WISH I HAD THE FORESIGHT TO SEE THE DOCTOR AFTER MY FIRST LITTLE INCIDENT

Regards Jimbo aka national

Chris GB

Hi Jimbo

Thanks for your reply (I think ). Can I ask how often / how many times these little incidents occurred before the main episode? Also was it a visual disturbance on each occasion or a variety of TIA symptoms?

I did see my doctor a few days after the incident. She did the usual blood pressure check and had a look at my retinas. All seemed OK. I explained the extreme pain stemming from my injured arm and the knock on neck and head aches that resulted from it. She also asked a lot of questions about the incident and how quickly it came and went. I am to see her again immmediately if I have any remotely similar incidents, but she reckons it is probably nothing to worry about.

I have read up on Migraine Equivalents and TIAs. There is also another potential cause for this with me as well, one which would be incurable and fatal. However, putting my paranoid hat away and reasoning it through.

On the upside:

I am in good health generally
I have reasonable cholestorol levels
I have normal to slightly low blood pressure
I dont smoke
I dont drink excessively (hardly at all these days)
In terms of stroke, I am probably lower than average risk
I was suffering extreme pain in the deltoid muscle groups due to injury
I was suffering head aches and neck aches as a result of holding myself under tension to alleviate the arm pains
The symptoms came on over a period of perhaps 5 - 10 minutes
I had a slight headache after the event
I had eaten two food types associated with this kind of episode

I would take the onset time to indicate a partial blockage as opposed to a complete blockage of an artery if it was a TIA. The subsequent headache is a known symptom of the Migraine Equivalent

On the downside:

There is a slight family history of stroke, my grandfather on my mothers side suffered a very minor one aged around 71 due to undiagnosed high blood pressure.
I have suffered irregular heartbeat in the past (completely gone since giving up caffine three years ago)
I am the right sort of age (42) to start climbing up the foothills of the MTBF bathtub curve.

So on balance, I reckon (and hope) the most likely cause for the episode was the arm injury and subsequent problems with muscle spasm in the neck. However, I am aware of the TIA risk as well and should I suffer ANY sort of related symptom to a TIA again, I will be back to the doctors straight away. I dont think there are any tests they could do at present (perhaps a clotting test) as I am symptom free and healthy at present. Of course the doctor does not know for sure, so there is a risk it was a TIA, hence my caution.

Chris

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jec

can't believe soo many people have these episodes. I first started with exactly the same symptoms, one night about 2 years ago (whilst drinking lager) My vision started to get "spots of lights" in it, then it was like a heat haze spreading in the corners of both visual fields. It lasted about 20 minutes and then just disappeared! Well, I was terrified, I had my eyes checked and they were fine and mentioned it to my doc who said it was classic visual migraine. I am 36 female, don't smoke, no family history of note but I was on the Pill and was told to stop that. I have one now on average about once a month, linked to my periods and being tired and drinking alcohol sometimes afterwards I have a headache. The past couple of years have been a really stressful time for me and I am sure it is all related, plus the fact that I am no spring chicken anymore

stevenh

It look slike the Amatriptyline is working for me, had my last migraine on 19th August (45 days ago!) which is by far the longest I have gone without one this year.

I've probably cursed things now!

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Snoopie

Hi Chris, Try booking an Eye-Test, Maybe this may be able to help with something.
I hope you're ok now though!

jonny boy

Absolute classic Migrane symptoms. I've had almost the exact same as you described for years now (and i'm 38 now) I take a couple of Paracetamol straight away and 99% of the time i'm ok. The 1% left is a banging Migrane.
Try not to worry too much. Obviously prudent to get a check up but enjoy life.
Good luck.

heresmo

As it's an internet forum, most comments will be personal rather than profesional medical advice, I'd just like to ask how many migraine sufferers have some sort of prior warning - I'd reckon quite a lot either (from those I've known) will know that they're heading for one (stress, active exercise in sunshine for me), or get some sort of warning signs shortly beforehand (feel one coming on).

I ask this because I think, Chris GB, you said your effect came on unexpectedly so not sure how that would fit with a migraine pattern - I'm no expert though.

Have they offered you an MRI or done tests on kidneys and liver etc which can affect eyesight? Water dehydration can also affect eyesight - and some would say (Iridologists) that all body organ health shows up in ones' eyes.

Probably no help at all, but best to avoid a "that'll be it then" diagnosis until sure methinks.

Regards
mo

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jonny boy

I have 30 minutes (odd) when the 'flashing chevrons' appear.
Depending on thier severity, this dictates the pain I will receive if I don't take 2 or 3 Paracetemol immediately. I carry tablets everywhere in case.
Just for the record as well, I had a few instances when driving when I went completely 'cross eyed' VERY scary.
As advice, if it ever happens to you, close one eye to see until it subsides.

stevenh

Happened to me twice in August - had to pull over and rest for 30 mins until my vision had returned to normal.

Of course, I was then driving home with a thumping migraine!

There is loads of info available from the migraine trust - The Migraine Trust

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Chris GB

Hi Mo

The effect did come on unexpectedly in the context of having no "pre effect" that I would relate to the episode, however, as it was the first and only time it has happened (touch wood), I cannot say for sure if something that happened before was an identifier or precursor.

The thing I believe caused it was the muscular tension resulting from an injury to my arm muscles. The pain had been going on for a number of weeks, and had within the day or two leading up to the episode caused headaches. As I ususally never have headaches, and as it was clear these headaches were stemming from the pain I was sufferring in my neck and shoulders (the whole area was in agony), I thought it most likely that the effect was a result of muscle spasm affecting blood flow in some way.

The doctor has not offered any form of further tests at present. I have suffered no recurrence of the symptom since the first episode, the arm pain has now resolved itself and I am feeling generally very healthy. As for organ health tests, I am on a three monthly checkup cycle and have recently had a full bloods run up including FBC and liver functions. All results in normal range. As for dehydration, had not drank enough the day it happened either (too busy to stop and drink anything) so that combined with the foods, pains, muscle tone and tiredness (had a very late night just before) make the probabilities lean toward it being not serious.

Obviously there are other possibilities, but my GP felt the likelyhood of anything more serious low enough to not do further tests. It is a little worrying, but life is too short and busy for hypocondria. Any other symptoms and I will be back down the docs straight away.

Chris

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