Parking ticket

KLM · 24-10-2007, 16:50

Got a ticket drop through the door last week.

Was parked on a B&Q car park but not shopping at B&Q

and exceeded the three hour limit.

The ticket is from a private company and states the times i entered and exited the car park (which are correct).

What legal right do they have to make you pay. They are not working for a local authority but a private landowner so do they have any 'teeth' and under what legislation?

Wouldn't be so annoyed but the store was closed so they hardly needed the space!

Anyway - do i contest it (and on what grounds) or do i not bother and just pay up? Fine is £50 if paid by next monday or £80 for a week after that. Then goes up to £110.

Cheers

Mark

Edit - hope this is in the right place!

postmanpat · 24-10-2007, 16:55

Would question how they got your address, surely the DVLA shouldn't be giving out these details to any tom **** or harry? Data Protection and all that.

KLM · 24-10-2007, 16:56

ye that what i would have though - but apparently it is surprisingly easy!!

postmanpat · 24-10-2007, 16:58

Tell them you can't remember parking there, or who was driving the vehicle, ask for evidance that the car was parked there during the claimed hours.

Lance · 24-10-2007, 17:05

I really don't understand the problem, you parked where you shouldn't so cough up.

Lance

TeflonTom · 24-10-2007, 17:05

actually they can legally charge you for parking there, there will be signs up stating that they will obtain your details and fine you for parking there if you overstay the time period....

**robmawer** · 24-10-2007, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by postmanpat

Data Protection and all that.

Data Protection wouldn't cover that - technically it's trespassing and thus a crime, and DVLA will provide details if it's in the interests of crime prevention...

Rob.

TeflonTom · 24-10-2007, 17:12

trespassing isn't technically a crime, it's a civil offence

soviet · 24-10-2007, 17:18

Vehicle owner details are available from the DVLA to anyone, that will pay the required fee, so I am understanding it, but as Robmawer said, being trespassing they will provide details.
I do think that they are being hawkish, though as B&Q where closed, and it was so unnecessary to give you a ticket. This is also not good for B&Q customer relations, as it possibly puts you off of doing the shopping with them, in future. I would fight your corner. It is always better to try, than give in, I think.

Soviet(up the sharp end)

postmanpat · 24-10-2007, 17:22

Whilst I can see the arguement that there are signs etc, I would have expected that they would have to clamp the car, or at least put a parking ticket on it at the time. Surely they heve to prove the car was actually parked there and over the said time?

daiking · 24-10-2007, 17:26

I've seen this issue crop up on the honest john forums. Can't remember exactly what level of claim they have, it may be possible to ignore it and they'll give up but you can't count on that. In these situations they pay the DVLA a few quid to get your details, ******** to data protection. I'd have a look on Pepipoo or whatever its called for guidance on these civil parking things.

IIRC I've read a case where someone went to the same B&Q twice in a day (we've all been there

) and they got a ticket because the company took the first entry time and second exit time as the duration of stay.

Dr Zoidberg · 24-10-2007, 17:39

The "fine" is based on contract law - by staying longer than three hours you "agree" to pay them the charge.

They can get the details of the registered keeper from the DVLA as they have good cause to do so , but that's not the same as knowing who the driver is.

Plenty of people will just pay up but if you just bin it they won't bother actually taking it to court - they have a very shaky legal case at best and they don't know who was actually driving

Lance · 24-10-2007, 17:41

That B&Q was closed or had an excess of spare space/s makes no difference............If you believe it does, then perhaps you can let strangers park on your drive/s when your not at home.

KLM, please remember that such fines can grow at an alarming rate should reminders, debt collection agencies etc, come in to play. A £50.00 fine can quickly become £100's.

Just a thought?

Lance

soviet · 24-10-2007, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

That B&Q was closed or had an excess of spare space/s makes no difference............If you believe it does, then perhaps you can let strangers park on your drive/s when your not at home.

Just a thought?

Lance

I think it does make a difference as it is so unnecessary to start with.

They are just money making. The current society that we now are finding ourselves in, seems to get more and more intolerant as each year goes by.

How I wish that I was still living in the 1960's when people where given the benefit of the doubt, and not penalised unnecessarily just for the sake of increased profits. What ever happened to a friendly warning? Why go straight for jugular vein?

I do not like this society now, and I making no secret of the fact.

Soviet

l

Lance · 24-10-2007, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by soviet

I think it does make a difference as it is so unnecessary to start with.

They are just money making. The current society that we now are finding ourselves in, seems to get more and more intolerant as each year goes by.

How I wish that I was still living in the 1960's when people where given the benefit of the doubt, and not penalised unnecessarily just for the sake of increased profits. What ever happened to a friendly warning? Why go straight for jugular vein?

I do not like this society now, and I making no secret of the fact.

Soviet

l

Soviet, morally I'd agree with you, however factually I don't.

Most rules are put in place due to abuse by so many.

rossm · 24-10-2007, 18:33

Briskoda is brilliant for advice, but theres always the small rule-obsessed, stuck-up contingent who like to wag the finger!!

Quote:

I really don't understand the problem, you parked where you shouldn't so cough up.

Cough, Get-a-life, cough cough!

I beleive in common sense, so if the B&Q was open, and near a football ground, the fans filled the car park and didn't let genuing customers in....then a £50.00 penalty charge MIGHT be appropriate. Punishing people financially without even going near a courthouse is in my opinion an absurd draconian system!

You could always move to a country where acts such as private wheel clamping and fines for entering 'private property' can't be legally enforced. Scotland...weather sucks but its otherwise okay

The following advice was extracted from a consumer action forum, sounds like good advice to me:

Quote:

As this will be private property,it will be 'enforcement' by a private company. Therefore it cannot be a 'fine'; they are attempting to levy a charge under a contract that the driver impliedly accepted by parking there. They wiil write to the registered keeper (who seems to morph into the owner in their eyes); the RK is under no obligation whatsoever to inform them of the driver's details

The 'invoice' is unenforceable unless they take you to the county court; where they would need to prove that you were the driver at the time and therefore liable, that any notices were both clearly visible and valid, that the driver impliedly accepted the contract by parking having seen and read the notices, that the charge is proportionate with any loss or reasonable cost and is not at all punitive.

AFAIK. none of these companies has actually gone as far as court - they rely on the same bullyig tactics as DCAs to get people to pay up

andy2407 · 24-10-2007, 18:55

There is a guide on pepipoo that gives plenty of info - Articles - Private Parking Companies/Charges (everything you need to know)

The consensus does seem to be to ignore everything they send you

Mike Wrightson · 24-10-2007, 21:19

Yup, they have no teeth whatsoever if it is a private parking company.

Write back (if you feel the need) saying that, as the keeper of the vehicle, you have received an invoice incorrectly and that any contract is with the driver of the vehicle at the time, request that they issue the invoice to the driver and that they not contact you about this matter again.

If they keep sending letters, reply to state that if they continue to write to you, you will seek action against them for harassment.

If a debt collectors letter shows up, write back stating that the alleged debt is in dispute and to refer back to the issuing company.

Never speak to them on the phone, only use written communication and do not include your phone number. It'll never get anywhere unless they can prove the identity of the driver, which they can't.

As the article says, you are under no obligation to give them any information at all.

Lance · 24-10-2007, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossm

Briskoda is brilliant for advice, but theres always the small rule-obsessed, stuck-up contingent who like to wag the finger!!

Cough, Get-a-life, cough cough!

I beleive in common sense, so if the B&Q was open, and near a football ground, the fans filled the car park and didn't let genuing customers in....then a £50.00 penalty charge MIGHT be appropriate. Punishing people financially without even going near a courthouse is in my opinion an absurd draconian system!

You could always move to a country where acts such as private wheel clamping and fines for entering 'private property' can't be legally enforced. Scotland...weather sucks but its otherwise okay

The following advice was extracted from a consumer action forum, sounds like good advice to me:

Ross

Borrocks!! I'm neither rule obsessed nor stuck up.

Not sure why you wished to go to personal insults??

Lance

anonymouse · 24-10-2007, 22:09

Quote:

that the charge is proportionate with any loss or reasonable cost and is not at all punitive.

from RossM

If the branch was closed then they would not have incurred any loss (in my view)

charles · 24-10-2007, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLM

Got a ticket drop through the door last week.

Was parked on a B&Q car park but not shopping at B&Q

and exceeded the three hour limit.

The ticket is from a private company and states the times i entered and exited the car park (which are correct).

What legal right do they have to make you pay. They are not working for a local authority but a private landowner so do they have any 'teeth' and under what legislation?

Wouldn't be so annoyed but the store was closed so they hardly needed the space!

Anyway - do i contest it (and on what grounds) or do i not bother and just pay up? Fine is £50 if paid by next monday or £80 for a week after that. Then goes up to £110.

Cheers

Mark

Edit - hope this is in the right place!

I would go back to B & Q and explain to them what happened. Tell them you intended to buy somthing but didn't know they were closed. Make something up as to why you had to lkeave the car in their car park.. I rekon they will sort it esp. if you buy do somthing you say you wanted at the time...

Mike Wrightson · 25-10-2007, 00:14

TBH, it isn't worth getting into any discussion about it at all, all that will achieve is that you will confirm yourself as the driver and then they've got you!

Send a letter back asking them to contact the driver of the vehicle and forget about it.

soviet · 25-10-2007, 07:36

Hi good old Soviet here,

Total intolerance as I said before. Why not just put a friendly warning on the windshield, and make him aware that it is not on the next time.
Apologies for going off thread a bit, but it all seemed to start with people being jailed for non payment of poll-tax, which also included the old etc.
The latest is pay to throw, for rubbish.
I have visions of the poor old white haired lady, mistakenly putting a sauce bottle or a pickle jar in the rubbish sack, and then being hauled before the courts.
I want a fairer, more compassionate society, as there is just too much dict-at these days, and the emphasis is on 'you will do this'.

I do not like our current society, and things are getting worse in this respect.

Soviet

Moose · 25-10-2007, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeflonTom

trespassing isn't technically a crime, it's a civil offence

It is a criminal offence

ap0gee · 25-10-2007, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

It is a criminal offence

AIUI, only if you trespass 'with intent' or something like that. Just being on someone else's property is only a civil matter. Hence the (probably spurious) story of the burglar getting off despite being caught in someone's house with the excuse that he was taking a shortcut...

(Not saying I agree with it, but that's my understanding of the law as it stands)

24-10-2007, 16:50	#1
KLM Briskodian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 682 Members Car: Fabia vRS Thanks: 97 Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts	Parking ticket Got a ticket drop through the door last week. Was parked on a B&Q car park but not shopping at B&Q and exceeded the three hour limit. The ticket is from a private company and states the times i entered and exited the car park (which are correct). What legal right do they have to make you pay. They are not working for a local authority but a private landowner so do they have any 'teeth' and under what legislation? Wouldn't be so annoyed but the store was closed so they hardly needed the space! Anyway - do i contest it (and on what grounds) or do i not bother and just pay up? Fine is £50 if paid by next monday or £80 for a week after that. Then goes up to £110. Cheers Mark Edit - hope this is in the right place!

24-10-2007, 16:56	#3
KLM Briskodian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 682 Members Car: Fabia vRS Thanks: 97 Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts	Re: Parking ticket ye that what i would have though - but apparently it is surprisingly easy!!

24-10-2007, 17:05	#5
Lance Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NORTHANTS UK Posts: 1,198 Members Car: Thanks: 5 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Parking ticket I really don't understand the problem, you parked where you shouldn't so cough up. Lance

24-10-2007, 17:05	#6
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 8,240 Members Car: Fabia 2.0/Felicia Thanks: 48 Thanked 233 Times in 205 Posts	Re: Parking ticket actually they can legally charge you for parking there, there will be signs up stating that they will obtain your details and fine you for parking there if you overstay the time period....

24-10-2007, 17:12	#8
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 8,240 Members Car: Fabia 2.0/Felicia Thanks: 48 Thanked 233 Times in 205 Posts	Re: Parking ticket trespassing isn't technically a crime, it's a civil offence

24-10-2007, 17:18	#9
soviet Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Swindon Posts: 925 Members Car: skoda 2002 1600 lx saloon Thanks: 63 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Parking ticket Vehicle owner details are available from the DVLA to anyone, that will pay the required fee, so I am understanding it, but as Robmawer said, being trespassing they will provide details. I do think that they are being hawkish, though as B&Q where closed, and it was so unnecessary to give you a ticket. This is also not good for B&Q customer relations, as it possibly puts you off of doing the shopping with them, in future. I would fight your corner. It is always better to try, than give in, I think. Soviet(up the sharp end)

24-10-2007, 17:39	#12
Dr Zoidberg Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: On the back of an AA truck with a failed turbo Posts: 10,745 Members Car: Octavia II 2.0 TDi Elegance Thanks: 30 Thanked 194 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Parking ticket The "fine" is based on contract law - by staying longer than three hours you "agree" to pay them the charge. They can get the details of the registered keeper from the DVLA as they have good cause to do so , but that's not the same as knowing who the driver is. Plenty of people will just pay up but if you just bin it they won't bother actually taking it to court - they have a very shaky legal case at best and they don't know who was actually driving __________________ Alex "I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away" www.drzoidberg.co.uk

24-10-2007, 17:41	#13
Lance Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NORTHANTS UK Posts: 1,198 Members Car: Thanks: 5 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Parking ticket That B&Q was closed or had an excess of spare space/s makes no difference............If you believe it does, then perhaps you can let strangers park on your drive/s when your not at home. KLM, please remember that such fines can grow at an alarming rate should reminders, debt collection agencies etc, come in to play. A £50.00 fine can quickly become £100's. Just a thought? Lance Last edited by Lance; 24-10-2007 at 17:52.

24-10-2007, 18:55	#17
andy2407 Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Upper Ramsbottom Posts: 5,591 Members Car: Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 59 Thanked 224 Times in 181 Posts	Re: Parking ticket There is a guide on pepipoo that gives plenty of info - Articles - Private Parking Companies/Charges (everything you need to know) The consensus does seem to be to ignore everything they send you __________________ The future's bright The future's mellow Now with a little zest of Washbrook added

24-10-2007, 21:19	#18
Mike Wrightson Briskodian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Carlisle, Cumbria Posts: 729 Members Car: Hyundai Coupe SIII 2.0 Thanks: 11 Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts	Re: Parking ticket Yup, they have no teeth whatsoever if it is a private parking company. Write back (if you feel the need) saying that, as the keeper of the vehicle, you have received an invoice incorrectly and that any contract is with the driver of the vehicle at the time, request that they issue the invoice to the driver and that they not contact you about this matter again. If they keep sending letters, reply to state that if they continue to write to you, you will seek action against them for harassment. If a debt collectors letter shows up, write back stating that the alleged debt is in dispute and to refer back to the issuing company. Never speak to them on the phone, only use written communication and do not include your phone number. It'll never get anywhere unless they can prove the identity of the driver, which they can't. As the article says, you are under no obligation to give them any information at all. __________________ Hyundai Coupe ! Fabia vRS - "Beastie" - A fond memory Me @ YouTube

25-10-2007, 00:14	#22
Mike Wrightson Briskodian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Carlisle, Cumbria Posts: 729 Members Car: Hyundai Coupe SIII 2.0 Thanks: 11 Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts	Re: Parking ticket TBH, it isn't worth getting into any discussion about it at all, all that will achieve is that you will confirm yourself as the driver and then they've got you! Send a letter back asking them to contact the driver of the vehicle and forget about it. __________________ Hyundai Coupe ! Fabia vRS - "Beastie" - A fond memory Me @ YouTube

25-10-2007, 07:36	#23
soviet Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Swindon Posts: 925 Members Car: skoda 2002 1600 lx saloon Thanks: 63 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Parking ticket Hi good old Soviet here, Total intolerance as I said before. Why not just put a friendly warning on the windshield, and make him aware that it is not on the next time. Apologies for going off thread a bit, but it all seemed to start with people being jailed for non payment of poll-tax, which also included the old etc. The latest is pay to throw, for rubbish. I have visions of the poor old white haired lady, mistakenly putting a sauce bottle or a pickle jar in the rubbish sack, and then being hauled before the courts. I want a fairer, more compassionate society, as there is just too much dict-at these days, and the emphasis is on 'you will do this'. I do not like our current society, and things are getting worse in this respect. Soviet

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