sun, sea, sand and rover...

daveclayton · 27-07-2008, 21:56

had a lovely day out to the coast with the girlfriend and her parents today. unfortunately her dad insisted on driving us there in his wait for it..... y reg burgundy rusted 110,000 mile rover 45!!! happy days. well we managed to get there ok but on the way back the engine decided to go. managed to push the heap into a shell garage. i diagnosed that the gasket had gone, said this was a fairly common problem, as rovers are sh!te. he decided to plod on anyway. and of course we got 50 yards and the thing totally packed up. so basically been trying in vain to make him see sense and get another car as his is worth nothing, especially a repair like this. guess what, oh yes hes going down to carcraft tomorrow to look for another rover! im tired hot slightly burnt and mad haha. anyways sorry for the rant

redbaron · 27-07-2008, 22:00

rovers are not sh*te... the k series will run forever if properly maintained.

daveclayton · 27-07-2008, 22:03

if you saw this you would certainly think 'how can this be legal?'. hes not a great driver either, its had three clutches since hes owned it. i know they arent all poo, sorry for the generalisation. guess thats kinda like saying 'a skoda...haha' lol

Captain Scarlet · 27-07-2008, 22:10

Sounds like a fun day....

cjb · 27-07-2008, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

rovers are not sh*te... the k series will run forever if properly maintained.

Have to disagree. The K series is a good design badly implemented. Given enthusiast care it can last, but it's not reliable in everyday use by everyday people. It's light, powerful, and refined, but reliable it isn't: ask anyone with a 1.8 Freelander.

The K series aside, Rovers were badly built, and out of date, and the company tried to sell then as a class above the competition, which they weren't. The last good mainstream car to have a Rover badge was the SD1, and even then they had problems.

redbaron · 27-07-2008, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjb

Have to disagree. The K series is a good design badly implemented. Given enthusiast care it can last, but it's not reliable in everyday use by everyday people. It's light, powerful, and refined, but reliable it isn't: ask anyone with a 1.8 Freelander.

The K series aside, Rovers were badly built, and out of date, and the company tried to sell then as a class above the competition, which they weren't. The last good mainstream car to have a Rover badge was the SD1, and even then they had problems.

and what was the last rover you owned / drove long enough to hold an opinion?

I loved my ZT and the mgf that the missus had was lots of fun 1.8k with nos and still no head gasket probs...

Captain Scarlet · 27-07-2008, 22:28

I seem to recall reading something along the lines that at certain periods of production they used either weaker gaskets or cylinder head bolts. I may be wrong. But agree they were behind the times.

cjb · 27-07-2008, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

and what was the last rover you owned / drove long enough to hold an opinion?

If you count the whole BL/Austin/Rover/Triumph range, I *love* Minis (the proper one). I liked a Allegro (of all things) that a mate had, just because it was quick (1750) and handled terribly. I have grudging respect for Maestro/Montego (a Montego 2.0 auto my Dad had was good, and none of them were as bad as the press said), and would love a Triumph 2000. Oh, I wouldn't say no to one of those 75 V8s either...The last one I drove? A 45 diesel with the L-series. Not bad, really, but by the time Rover went bump it was seriously outdated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbaron

I loved my ZT and the mgf that the missus had was lots of fun 1.8k with nos and still no head gasket probs...

Maybe you were lucky

. Seriously, Neither of those were mainstream and were likely to have enthusiast owners who look after them. The problem really was that production wasn't consistent, quality control patchy, and aftersales ****e, plus the cars were pitched a class above where they should have been. This has more to do with managment than the cars themselves: The K series *should* have been a world-beater but wasn't, the MGF *should* have been better than an MX-5, but quality control screwed it. I'm sure if you got a good one it would be reliable, but a colleague's one spent more time in the dealer than out with repeated head gasket problems.

If you like yours and they are reliable, then that's cool.

daveclayton · 27-07-2008, 22:35

the mechanic from the rac who came out to us said that it was rare to see a rover 45 over 3 years old thats gasket hadn't gone. ive always been brought up believing that rover are naff and cheaply built. this has only reinforced this lol. its blinking hard trying to persuade someone that its far easier to get a new car (and cheaper) then it is to keep paying for one thats eating money

cjb · 27-07-2008, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Scarlet

I seem to recall reading something along the lines that at certain periods of production they used either weaker gaskets or cylinder head bolts. I may be wrong. But agree they were behind the times.

The gaskets and locating dowels for the head were changed later on (the gasket was changed from having a rubber seal to metal, and the dowels changed from pladtic to metal), as was the thermostat plumbing on freelanders. It did help, but it was a bit late: there were lots of failures and poor after-sales fixes.

cjb · 27-07-2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveclayton

the mechanic from the rac who came out to us said that it was rare to see a rover 45 over 3 years old thats gasket hadn't gone. ive always been brought up believing that rover are naff and cheaply built. this has only reinforced this lol. its blinking hard trying to persuade someone that its far easier to get a new car (and cheaper) then it is to keep paying for one thats eating money

That's a bit harsh TBH. There's some truth but that is an exaggeration.

daveclayton · 27-07-2008, 22:41

which bit?

cjb · 27-07-2008, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveclayton

which bit?

The head gasket thing, and the cheaply built.

The K series is famed for HGF, but can last with care. They weren't cheaply built, merely inconsistently built by a demotivated workforce.

daveclayton · 27-07-2008, 22:51

ah right, well im only going on top gear and my dad haha. having never owned one myself im not really qualified to comment i guess

Decron · 27-07-2008, 23:35

Main reason the heads failed was down to intermittant airlocks in the cooling system which can be caused be a variety of issues. The K series IS pretty strong as long as you stay on top of it. You just have watch the temp gauge a bit more than in other cars. I have worked on several and never found it to be a problem. I would advise people who use them daily to check coolant levels more often and maybe use Water Wetter for piece of mind. You might sit there thinking "Well it sure sounds like a pain in the ***" but I can assure you there are far worse engines from that period.

It takes about me 3-4 hours to change a HG and head on a 1.4 16v. My grandfather used to do one every week at one point and used to buy recon heads and bolts in bulk, he could do it in 2 hours.

matt@theforce · 28-07-2008, 08:54

I had a 1993 Rover 214sli twin cam 16v K-series and although I never experienced the HG failure I did go through clutches every other month or so and about 2 gearboxes a year. But I was doing about 30k per year and most of it driving round the m25 so alot of stop/start driving and lots of heat.

It was a fantastic engine and I can understand why people kept/keep buying them and the whole rover ownership is a similar to the alfa ownership but with different reasons

gilesk · 28-07-2008, 09:39

My dad used to have the SDI V8's (3) when I was a kid, they were great fun, bits fell off but he drove it like a loon , apart from getting through tyres it never failed and that included 3 runs a year to the alps and south of France.

soviet · 28-07-2008, 09:43

supied

gilesk · 28-07-2008, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by soviet

supied

??????????????????

skorob2007 · 28-07-2008, 10:13

I had use of a newish 1998 620 Ti with the Honda turbo engine, 200bhp.Went like the clappers but ergonomically crap interior design and pensioner image was off-putting, so was the appalling build quality.Never broke down and had regular 120+MPH jaunts on foreign auto routes, and at times was a great deal of fun because of the performance, much better than the Montenogo MG Turbo I had once that was fast in a straight line but hated corners as it wallowed like a boat.But, echoing what has already been said, Rover tried to pitch the cars a class too high and the build quality was very hit and miss.Also, Watchdog really highlighted the headgasket failures of the K-Series engine.

andy2407 · 28-07-2008, 10:38

cjb · 28-07-2008, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decron

Main reason the heads failed was down to intermittant airlocks in the cooling system which can be caused be a variety of issues. The K series IS pretty strong as long as you stay on top of it. You just have watch the temp gauge a bit more than in other cars. I have worked on several and never found it to be a problem. I would advise people who use them daily to check coolant levels more often and maybe use Water Wetter for piece of mind. You might sit there thinking "Well it sure sounds like a pain in the ***" but I can assure you there are far worse engines from that period.

The freelander particularly suffered as the thermostat was too far from the engine, and the rapid and extreme heat cycling that resulted knackered it. The engine would warm up, and get a bit too hot before the stat opened, and cooled things a bit quickly.

It's not helped by the fact the K series has a small cooling system, so any coolant loss is a big problem.

skorob2007 · 28-07-2008, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy2407

KenONeill · 28-07-2008, 13:42

The last well-engineered, well-made and reliable Au'tin/Rover, BL, BLMC, BMC or whatever car I've had anything to do with was a 1973 Triumph. Even there, I'll not claim they were all perfect. Look at the care needed to build a reliable Dolly Sprint engine, against typical production line assembly!

cjb · 28-07-2008, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenONeill

Look at the care needed to build a reliable Dolly Sprint engine, against typical production line assembly!

Dolomite Sprint.....

Basic design of that engine was used by Saab for years after.

27-07-2008, 21:56	#1
daveclayton Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: wakefield Posts: 196 Members Car: seat leon Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	sun, sea, sand and rover... had a lovely day out to the coast with the girlfriend and her parents today. unfortunately her dad insisted on driving us there in his wait for it..... y reg burgundy rusted 110,000 mile rover 45!!! happy days. well we managed to get there ok but on the way back the engine decided to go. managed to push the heap into a shell garage. i diagnosed that the gasket had gone, said this was a fairly common problem, as rovers are sh!te. he decided to plod on anyway. and of course we got 50 yards and the thing totally packed up. so basically been trying in vain to make him see sense and get another car as his is worth nothing, especially a repair like this. guess what, oh yes hes going down to carcraft tomorrow to look for another rover! im tired hot slightly burnt and mad haha. anyways sorry for the rant __________________ CURRENT: SEAT leon sport 1.4 tsi, candy white, hids. looks better, drives better, is better than the fabia gone: fabia 'vrs' eibach pro springs lowered 40mm, vrs badges, red callipers, LED side lights, hids.

27-07-2008, 22:00	#2
redbaron Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,567 Members Car: Thanks: 15 Thanked 70 Times in 61 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... rovers are not sh*te... the k series will run forever if properly maintained. __________________ ________________________________________ Some times I just feel like smiling.

27-07-2008, 22:03	#3
daveclayton Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: wakefield Posts: 196 Members Car: seat leon Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... if you saw this you would certainly think 'how can this be legal?'. hes not a great driver either, its had three clutches since hes owned it. i know they arent all poo, sorry for the generalisation. guess thats kinda like saying 'a skoda...haha' lol __________________ CURRENT: SEAT leon sport 1.4 tsi, candy white, hids. looks better, drives better, is better than the fabia gone: fabia 'vrs' eibach pro springs lowered 40mm, vrs badges, red callipers, LED side lights, hids.

27-07-2008, 22:10	#4
Captain Scarlet Proud new Dad Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Carlisle, Cumbria Posts: 2,873 Members Car: Octavia vRS TDi Thanks: 165 Thanked 160 Times in 151 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... Sounds like a fun day.... __________________ Running on the fuel of Satan....

27-07-2008, 22:28	#7
Captain Scarlet Proud new Dad Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Carlisle, Cumbria Posts: 2,873 Members Car: Octavia vRS TDi Thanks: 165 Thanked 160 Times in 151 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... I seem to recall reading something along the lines that at certain periods of production they used either weaker gaskets or cylinder head bolts. I may be wrong. But agree they were behind the times. __________________ Running on the fuel of Satan....

27-07-2008, 22:35	#9
daveclayton Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: wakefield Posts: 196 Members Car: seat leon Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... the mechanic from the rac who came out to us said that it was rare to see a rover 45 over 3 years old thats gasket hadn't gone. ive always been brought up believing that rover are naff and cheaply built. this has only reinforced this lol. its blinking hard trying to persuade someone that its far easier to get a new car (and cheaper) then it is to keep paying for one thats eating money __________________ CURRENT: SEAT leon sport 1.4 tsi, candy white, hids. looks better, drives better, is better than the fabia gone: fabia 'vrs' eibach pro springs lowered 40mm, vrs badges, red callipers, LED side lights, hids.

27-07-2008, 22:41	#12
daveclayton Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: wakefield Posts: 196 Members Car: seat leon Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... which bit? __________________ CURRENT: SEAT leon sport 1.4 tsi, candy white, hids. looks better, drives better, is better than the fabia gone: fabia 'vrs' eibach pro springs lowered 40mm, vrs badges, red callipers, LED side lights, hids.

27-07-2008, 22:51	#14
daveclayton Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: wakefield Posts: 196 Members Car: seat leon Thanks: 6 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... ah right, well im only going on top gear and my dad haha. having never owned one myself im not really qualified to comment i guess __________________ CURRENT: SEAT leon sport 1.4 tsi, candy white, hids. looks better, drives better, is better than the fabia gone: fabia 'vrs' eibach pro springs lowered 40mm, vrs badges, red callipers, LED side lights, hids.

27-07-2008, 23:35	#15
Decron It's all good Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cwmbran - South Wales Posts: 3,556 Members Car: Vroomster Thanks: 66 Thanked 262 Times in 189 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... Main reason the heads failed was down to intermittant airlocks in the cooling system which can be caused be a variety of issues. The K series IS pretty strong as long as you stay on top of it. You just have watch the temp gauge a bit more than in other cars. I have worked on several and never found it to be a problem. I would advise people who use them daily to check coolant levels more often and maybe use Water Wetter for piece of mind. You might sit there thinking "Well it sure sounds like a pain in the ***" but I can assure you there are far worse engines from that period. It takes about me 3-4 hours to change a HG and head on a 1.4 16v. My grandfather used to do one every week at one point and used to buy recon heads and bolts in bulk, he could do it in 2 hours.

28-07-2008, 08:54	#16
matt@theforce Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Durkar Posts: 2,303 Members Car: Octavia 130pd Elegance Estate Thanks: 118 Thanked 83 Times in 72 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... I had a 1993 Rover 214sli twin cam 16v K-series and although I never experienced the HG failure I did go through clutches every other month or so and about 2 gearboxes a year. But I was doing about 30k per year and most of it driving round the m25 so alot of stop/start driving and lots of heat. It was a fantastic engine and I can understand why people kept/keep buying them and the whole rover ownership is a similar to the alfa ownership but with different reasons __________________ Support Briskoda Join FREEDOM >>> <<<

28-07-2008, 09:39	#17
gilesk MadridBriskodia Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,044 Members Car: Thanks: 16 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... My dad used to have the SDI V8's (3) when I was a kid, they were great fun, bits fell off but he drove it like a loon , apart from getting through tyres it never failed and that included 3 runs a year to the alps and south of France. __________________ who'd have thought it eh?

28-07-2008, 09:43	#18
soviet Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Swindon Posts: 927 Members Car: skoda 2002 1600 lx saloon Thanks: 63 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... supied

28-07-2008, 10:13	#20
skorob2007 Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peterborough Posts: 610 Members Car: Thanks: 37 Thanked 78 Times in 54 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... I had use of a newish 1998 620 Ti with the Honda turbo engine, 200bhp.Went like the clappers but ergonomically crap interior design and pensioner image was off-putting, so was the appalling build quality.Never broke down and had regular 120+MPH jaunts on foreign auto routes, and at times was a great deal of fun because of the performance, much better than the Montenogo MG Turbo I had once that was fast in a straight line but hated corners as it wallowed like a boat.But, echoing what has already been said, Rover tried to pitch the cars a class too high and the build quality was very hit and miss.Also, Watchdog really highlighted the headgasket failures of the K-Series engine.

28-07-2008, 10:38	#21
andy2407 Briskodian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Upper Ramsbottom Posts: 5,591 Members Car: Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 59 Thanked 224 Times in 181 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... __________________ The future's bright The future's mellow Now with a little zest of Washbrook added

28-07-2008, 13:42	#24
KenONeill Briskodian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Normally in Scotland! Posts: 11,189 Members Car: Octavia TDi110 Thanks: 63 Thanked 561 Times in 549 Posts	Re: sun, sea, sand and rover... The last well-engineered, well-made and reliable Au'tin/Rover, BL, BLMC, BMC or whatever car I've had anything to do with was a 1973 Triumph. Even there, I'll not claim they were all perfect. Look at the care needed to build a reliable Dolly Sprint engine, against typical production line assembly!

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