The UK Benefits / Tax / Immigration Systems

Tom_vRS · 26-10-2005, 16:13

Well, I'm interested to hear what peoples feelings are on the UK benefits system. I am quite naive, but I think us Briskodians are a diverse bunch and could be an interesting discussion.

Just lets please remember the forum rules and this is the HOTEL

I have 3 areas I'd quite like opinions on.

1) A lady works as a poorly paid factory worker. She lives with her parents and there is no way that she could afford to rent or buy a property on her wage. Shes feels totally depressed in a boring dead end job with little hope for a better future. She gets pregnant so that she will be given a council house and a nice load of benefits to go with it so she won't need to work.

2) A guy leaves an adequately paid job. After 6 lazy months of boozing and dossing, he can receive job seekers allowance, and can stay on it forever. There is no motivation to accept a low paid job to only give a small financial benefit over the benefits he receives.

3) Immigration in general!

Nice and open ended - looking forward to some interesting reading for a change!

**VRStu** · 26-10-2005, 16:25

Light the blue touchpaper and standback Tom!!!

**robmawer** · 26-10-2005, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_vRS

She gets pregnant so that she will be given a council house and a nice load of benefits to go with it so she won't need to work.

As a single mother, she won't be likely to qualify for a decent property - will more than likely be in some godforsaken tower block.

Quote:

he can receive job seekers allowance, and can stay on it forever. There is no motivation to accept a low paid job to only give a small financial benefit over the benefits he receives.

Don't think it works like that - you can't stay on the rock'n'roll forever, as you start getting put on New Deal, etc. Most likely they'd have to go for Disability Benefit or similar for long-term support.

Quote:

3) Immigration in general!

Not really sure why this is lumped in with benefits and tax.

TBH, the majority of immigrants I come across are either doctors or similar "skills shortage" profession, or they're out driving taxis and working in takeaways or supermarkets in the hours when most of us don't want to work.
Quite a lot run pretty successful businesses too, and I'd wager they contribute a lot more in tax payments and employment than a lot of their detractors...

Rob.

Goochie · 26-10-2005, 16:31

3) Immigration isnt very good - Migration is what we should all be doing

Tom_vRS · 26-10-2005, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmawer

As a single mother, she won't be likely to qualify for a decent property - will more than likely be in some godforsaken tower block.

Well in Fenland there are no tower blocks - most council properties are atleast 2 beds and have all been refurbished in the last few years. I imagine the situation in cities to be quite different mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmawer

Not really sure why this is lumped in with benefits and tax.

TBH, the majority of immigrants I come across are either doctors or similar "skills shortage" profession, or they're out driving taxis and working in takeaways or supermarkets in the hours when most of us don't want to work.
Quite a lot run pretty successful businesses too, and I'd wager they contribute a lot more in tax payments and employment than a lot of their detractors...

Ok, economic migrants are great imo, and are I'm certainly in favour. However, I wander into my local town of Peterborough, and white people seem to be the ethenic minority. Whilst I am fine that many of these people are born in Britain, surely a large proportion of them aren't professionals offering anything to our society

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRStu

Light the blue touchpaper and standback Tom!!!

Yep!

Hope its quite a good discussion.

simon · 26-10-2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_vRS

1) A lady works as a poorly paid factory worker. She lives with her parents and there is no way that she could afford to rent or buy a property on her wage. Shes feels totally depressed in a boring dead end job with little hope for a better future. She gets pregnant so that she will be given a council house and a nice load of benefits to go with it so she won't need to work.

Having a baby to get off work and get a house....let me think.....

Heres something you might wanna think about. For the most part bad parenting breeds bad kids who turn out to be bad people. If you went to the house of the kid who keyed your motor you'd more than likely find his parents were @ssholes too. There are exceptions to this of course but as a general rule its hard to dispute.

People are having babies with no conception of how to take care of them.

To drive a car, fly a plane, own a gun, care for the sick the state requires you to have some sort of licence to prove that you are capable of doing performing these tasks without being a danger to others.
Having a child is the most important thing that any human being can undertake and yet people are allowed to breed with no thought of wether they would actually be good parent or even give a t0sss about their child. This is wrong. You should have to prove you are capable of being a parent before you are allowed to reproduce.

Of course people would say that its a basic human right to have children. I would say that its the childs right to have parents that care about it and the public right not to be terrorised by rampaging yobs...........Discuss!

**robmawer** · 26-10-2005, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_vRS

Ok, economic migrants are great imo, and are I'm certainly in favour. However, I wander into my local town of Peterborough, and white people seem to be the ethenic minority. Whilst I am fine that many of these people are born in Britain, surely a large proportion of them aren't professionals offering anything to our society

They may or may not be professionals - but that's not to say they're not offering anything to society...even those who aren't paying taxes and are working illegally are supplying society with cheap labour. Whether this is a good or not...well, it has it's benefits.

Rob.

spinndrift · 26-10-2005, 16:51

In my experience the benefits system fails those who need it most.

vRS19TD · 26-10-2005, 16:54

Okay, well i work for the Department for Work and Pensions, so i don't have anything good to say about it.
People on Jobseekers aren't allowed to just keep claiming it, most of them will go onto Incapacity Benefit with depression or something, just to get out of working.
I agree that for the most part, bad parents breed bad kids. We have customers who have never worked and their kids are following suit.
One customer i've dealt with who was about 35 had 10 kids and 1 on the way and she was claiming how hard her life was. Not half as bad as the fact she was getting more money than i'm getting for processing her claim. The only thing she's ever had hard is............well, with 11 kids, i think you could guess the rest.

Stuart_J · 26-10-2005, 17:18

Uk policy is simple, if you work hard & try & be a law abiding citizen you get given fook all, you are over taxed & if you break the law your fines are based on "your ability to pay !!

If youve got nothing & cant be arsed to work or are a refugee (economic migrant) you can have whatever you want & as far as breaking the law is concerned you can do whatever you want.

Anything else is a grey area

Tom_vRS · 26-10-2005, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_J

Uk policy is simple, if you work hard & try & be a law abiding citizen you get given fook all, you are over taxed & if you break the law your fines are based on "your ability to pay !!

If youve got nothing & cant be arsed to work or are a refugee (economic migrant) you can have whatever you want & as far as breaking the law is concerned you can do whatever you want.

Anything else is a grey area

Subtly put - yet I have to say it certainly seems this way.

After speaking with a senior member of the police force, he openly admitted that they are more likely to prosecute someone with money, as there is little hope of recovering any money from people who are skint.

JRHartley · 27-10-2005, 08:40

What you do :-

Work hard for 40 yrs paying into some sh*t private pension scheme in order to be able to retire, paying all your taxes, supporting soap-dodging/workshy/theiving scumbags whose kids have no concept of birth control. Never claiming any benefits you weren't entitled to..
Paying a third of your salary to be able to travel anywhere since there is no public transport system. Making sure you are fully taxed and insured etc.

Paying the remaining two thirds of your salary to be able to put a roof over your head
,feed your family and try to keep them warm and dry.

What you get back in return :-

1) Thanks to the pension company syphoning off your pension fund you have the opportunity to survive for the remaining 20 yrs of your life expectancy on £10 a week after you've paid your council tax/leccy/gas

2) A fiver a week heating allowance to fend off hypothermia

3) The experience of being terrorised in your own home by hoodies chucking bricks through your window, sticking fireworks in your letterbox or up your cats ar5e (If they haven't broken in and beat you up for the £2.53 you have left in your pocket)

4) Having to stiffle any sense of National pride in being British incase you get labelled a racist, not being allowed to fly the either the flag of St George or a Union flag on St Georges day in case some one might take offense?

5) The satisfaction of been entitled to a big fat f**k all except having all your worldy goods confiscated by the government in exchange for finding you a nursing home when the inevitable ravages of old age and a lifetime of carrying the *********** ******** **** scumbags of this world around on your back, finally take their toll.
and if you have already burnt all your furniture to keep warm, then you can look forward to bloating in your armchair for two weeks before social services kick your front door in to spoon you up and move the next poor soul on the list into your council bungalow.

How does Rule Britannia go again ? "...Britons never, never, ever will be slaves....."

...how ironic........

Stuart_J · 27-10-2005, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRHartley

What you do :-

Work hard for 40 yrs paying into some sh*t private pension scheme in order to be able to retire, paying all your taxes, supporting soap-dodging/workshy/theiving scumbags whose kids have no concept of birth control. Never claiming any benefits you weren't entitled to..
Paying a third of your salary to be able to travel anywhere since there is no public transport system. Making sure you are fully taxed and insured etc.

Paying the remaining two thirds of your salary to be able to put a roof over your head
,feed your family and try to keep them warm and dry.

What you get back in return :-

1) Thanks to the pension company syphoning off your pension fund you have the opportunity to survive for the remaining 20 yrs of your life expectancy on £10 a week after you've paid your council tax/leccy/gas

2) A fiver a week heating allowance to fend off hypothermia

3) The experience of being terrorised in your own home by hoodies chucking bricks through your window, sticking fireworks in your letterbox or up your cats ar5e (If they haven't broken in and beat you up for the £2.53 you have left in your pocket)

4) Having to stiffle any sense of National pride in being British incase you get labelled a racist, not being allowed to fly the either the flag of St George or a Union flag on St Georges day in case some one might take offense?

5) The satisfaction of been entitled to a big fat f**k all except having all your worldy goods confiscated by the government in exchange for finding you a nursing home when the inevitable ravages of old age and a lifetime of carrying the *********** ******** **** scumbags of this world around on your back, finally take their toll.
and if you have already burnt all your furniture to keep warm, then you can look forward to bloating in your armchair for two weeks before social services kick your front door in to spoon you up and move the next poor soul on the list into your council bungalow.

How does Rule Britannia go again ? "...Britons never, never, ever will be slaves....."

...how ironic........

Your obviously better at typing than me, I feel exactly the same, I just put the abreviated version

lozgti · 27-10-2005, 10:28

Spot on JR.Apparantly all our graduates are going overseas now.Wonder why there are gaps to fill here

As for immigrants,I know there is a huge spread of people.The ones here however for some reason are all aged about thirty and walk around in gangs of about thirty and hang around the local Tesco in a gang of.....ooh,about thirty.

Funnily enough,the Tesco cashpoint recently caught loads of people with a 'Lebanese Loop' or whatever they call it.

First benefits ever for myself and the missus.After investing £500,000 in the Governments savings accounts the Twins are now getting child benefit of £17 and £11 and £250 each to be invested on the drugs/cars /women of their choice at 18

lozgti · 27-10-2005, 10:32

Oh.And hearing the Halifax is banning piggy banks for fear of offending muslims slightly irked me.

Off topic ish but sod it.

simon · 27-10-2005, 10:37

I for one am sick of having to give over a massive chunk of my hard earned dosh every month to support the terminally lazy, the unemployable and silly tarts who cant keep their legs shut!

If the welfare state was abolished altogether most of our current problems would be sorted. We would cease to become a soft target for immigrants. People would have no choice but to go and get a bloody job and mabe there would be a few less mindless cretins being bought into the world.

Life should not be about handouts. Its about time people learned that

Fabia 12v · 27-10-2005, 11:05

All the imigrants have been given all the jobs i have applied for and been turned down

Guess it looks better on the company's graph of equality.

flyingscot · 27-10-2005, 11:10

1 in 5 people in Glasgow are on disability benifit according to a recnt TV program. It is beyond comprehension that Glasgow should have suddenly have a very ill city, infact it's because these people know the system better than the staff and know what to claim and how!

The welfare system started up as everyone by his need.
Now? Everyone by his greed.

Heebee · 28-10-2005, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

To drive a car, fly a plane, own a gun, care for the sick the state requires you to have some sort of licence to prove that you are capable of doing performing these tasks without being a danger to others.
Having a child is the most important thing that any human being can undertake and yet people are allowed to breed with no thought of wether they would actually be good parent or even give a t0sss about their child. This is wrong. You should have to prove you are capable of being a parent before you are allowed to reproduce.

Do you write for the Daily Mail?

Heebee · 28-10-2005, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabia 12v

All the imigrants have been given all the jobs i have applied for and been turned down

Guess it looks better on the company's graph of equality.

How on earth do you know this?

This whole thread seems to be slumping into lazy xenophobia.

simon · 28-10-2005, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heebee

Do you write for the Daily Mail?

No.

But if you have a comment to make on what was written I would be very interrested to hear it.

lozgti · 28-10-2005, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heebee

How on earth do you know this?

This whole thread seems to be slumping into lazy xenophobia.

First point is a good one.

Second point.Hmmm.I think simply the concern of saying too much(as per another thread) keeps it lazy as opposed to active.

UK takes in the good,the bad and the ugly.In the wrong proportions though.

Heebee · 28-10-2005, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

No.

But if you have a comment to make on what was written I would be very interrested to hear it.

You can't possibly make it illegal for certain people to breed. And to suggest that 'bad breeds bad' is over-simplistic in the extreme.

The Mail seems keen on control-freakery and the government is hell-bent on nanny state-ism.

I like living in a liberal country with a good social services infrastructure: it's comforting to know that there is a safety net to support us if things go wrong. There are a lot of people on disability benefit, and it may be that some are malingerers. But it certainly isn't the case for all of them: only the rotten apples make the headlines.

Compared with the rest of Europe, we don't actually pay that much tax. It has gone up since Blair got into power, and a lot of the money has been wasted on beurocracy and wars. But that doesn't mean we should blame all our problems on people on benefits.

For what it's worth, I think it should be possible to survive, but uncomfortable, to live on benefits. However, I would hate to see benefits and the NHS scrapped: it's far from perfect, but it's part of what makes us a civilised country.

simon · 28-10-2005, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heebee

You can't possibly make it illegal for certain people to breed. And to suggest that 'bad breeds bad' is over-simplistic in the extreme.

It is over-simplistic yes and is more a statement designed to create a reaction. However, I do believe that you should have to proove yourself fit to be a parent. If you want to adopt you have to do just that.

I'm not suggesting that breeding is controlled by class or wealth or your postcode but whats wrong with having to proove that you are serious about being a parent. Its someones life were talking about here!

**robmawer** · 28-10-2005, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

It is over-simplistic yes and is more a statement designed to create a reaction. However, I do believe that you should have to proove yourself fit to be a parent. If you want to adopt you have to do just that.

I think there's two problems with this. Firstly, is the issue of what a "fit parent" actually is...I doubt there are any two people in the world whose views on child-rearing policy match exactly. Therefore, one would have to have a system which was easy and quick to test, but would somehow prove something for which the desired results are not really certain.

The second is that a lot of people don't really know how they'd cope with something like parenthood until it actually happens - I mean, I know there's those "realistic" dolls which cry lots, etc. but I don't think they're an especially good test. No more than taking a driving test in a simulator would be a good enough driving test.

Rob.

26-10-2005, 16:13	#1
Tom_vRS Briskodaholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fenland, Cambridgeshire Posts: 11,561 Members Car: '97R BMW 328i Saloon Thanks: 679 Thanked 435 Times in 312 Posts	The UK Benefits / Tax / Immigration Systems Well, I'm interested to hear what peoples feelings are on the UK benefits system. I am quite naive, but I think us Briskodians are a diverse bunch and could be an interesting discussion. Just lets please remember the forum rules and this is the HOTEL I have 3 areas I'd quite like opinions on. 1) A lady works as a poorly paid factory worker. She lives with her parents and there is no way that she could afford to rent or buy a property on her wage. Shes feels totally depressed in a boring dead end job with little hope for a better future. She gets pregnant so that she will be given a council house and a nice load of benefits to go with it so she won't need to work. 2) A guy leaves an adequately paid job. After 6 lazy months of boozing and dossing, he can receive job seekers allowance, and can stay on it forever. There is no motivation to accept a low paid job to only give a small financial benefit over the benefits he receives. 3) Immigration in general! Nice and open ended - looking forward to some interesting reading for a change! __________________ 97/R BMW 328i in Boston Green.

26-10-2005, 16:25	#2
VRStu Txt Spk Police Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hampshire Posts: 20,848 Members Car: Audi S3 Thanks: 145 Thanked 1,000 Times in 896 Posts	Light the blue touchpaper and standback Tom!!! __________________ Stu Stu's Websites - http://www.fabia-vrs.com & http://www.octavia-vrs.com Stu's Car - 2008 Audi S3 - Ibis White, Black Optics Pack, Privacy Glass, Auto Bi Xenon Headlights, Rain Sensing Wipers, Bose Sound System, Ipod Prep, GSM Phone Prep, Flat Bottom Multi Function Steering Wheel, Electric Folding Mirrors, Acoustic Parking, Cruise Control, Interior Light Pack, Non Smokers Pack. SWMBO's Car - 2008 Seat LEON TDi Stylance, Black Magic, Sports Pack, Rear Parking Sensors. Something for Weekend - A Patio

26-10-2005, 16:51	#8
spinndrift Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Woking/Bolton Le Sands Posts: 6,642 Members Car: Roomster Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	In my experience the benefits system fails those who need it most. __________________ Rev. Andy The Rallying Reverend www.miniroadrunnerrallying.co.uk Engine data aquisition is fun

26-10-2005, 16:54	#9
vRS19TD Silver Fab vRS Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Stourbridge, West Midlands Posts: 1,871 Members Car: Silver Fabia vRS. Thanks: 99 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts	Okay, well i work for the Department for Work and Pensions, so i don't have anything good to say about it. People on Jobseekers aren't allowed to just keep claiming it, most of them will go onto Incapacity Benefit with depression or something, just to get out of working. I agree that for the most part, bad parents breed bad kids. We have customers who have never worked and their kids are following suit. One customer i've dealt with who was about 35 had 10 kids and 1 on the way and she was claiming how hard her life was. Not half as bad as the fact she was getting more money than i'm getting for processing her claim. The only thing she's ever had hard is............well, with 11 kids, i think you could guess the rest. __________________ John http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j79/vRS19TD/ www.petrolprices.com For Cheap Fuel Prices in Your Area. http://www.myspace.com/vrs19td This is me, if you're interested. Also on Facebook.

26-10-2005, 17:18	#10
Stuart_J Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Winchester Posts: 5,710 Members Car: Nissan 350Z Twin Turbo Also Octavia 1.9 TDI L&K & Superb td 140 Thanks: 39 Thanked 85 Times in 78 Posts	Uk policy is simple, if you work hard & try & be a law abiding citizen you get given fook all, you are over taxed & if you break the law your fines are based on "your ability to pay !! If youve got nothing & cant be arsed to work or are a refugee (economic migrant) you can have whatever you want & as far as breaking the law is concerned you can do whatever you want. Anything else is a grey area __________________ Speed is an addiction for which thankfully there is no cure

26-10-2005, 16:31	#4
Goochie Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 12,363 Members Car: Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts	3) Immigration isnt very good - Migration is what we should all be doing

27-10-2005, 08:40	#12
JRHartley Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North west Posts: 2,010 Members Car: Octavia 1.9 TDi Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts	What you do :- Work hard for 40 yrs paying into some sht private pension scheme in order to be able to retire, paying all your taxes, supporting soap-dodging/workshy/theiving scumbags whose kids have no concept of birth control. Never claiming any benefits you weren't entitled to.. Paying a third of your salary to be able to travel anywhere since there is no public transport system. Making sure you are fully taxed and insured etc. Paying the remaining two thirds of your salary to be able to put a roof over your head ,feed your family and try to keep them warm and dry. What you get back in return :- 1) Thanks to the pension company syphoning off your pension fund you have the opportunity to survive for the remaining 20 yrs of your life expectancy on £10 a week after you've paid your council tax/leccy/gas 2) A fiver a week heating allowance to fend off hypothermia 3) The experience of being terrorised in your own home by hoodies chucking bricks through your window, sticking fireworks in your letterbox or up your cats ar5e (If they haven't broken in and beat you up for the £2.53 you have left in your pocket) 4) Having to stiffle any sense of National pride in being British incase you get labelled a racist, not being allowed to fly the either the flag of St George or a Union flag on St Georges day in case some one might take offense? 5) The satisfaction of been entitled to a big fat fk all except having all your worldy goods confiscated by the government in exchange for finding you a nursing home when the inevitable ravages of old age and a lifetime of carrying the ******** **** ** scumbags of this world around on your back, finally take their toll. and if you have already burnt all your furniture to keep warm, then you can look forward to bloating in your armchair for two weeks before social services kick your front door in to spoon you up and move the next poor soul on the list into your council bungalow. How does Rule Britannia go again ? "...Britons never, never, ever will be slaves....." ...how ironic........ __________________ I'm a celebrity...... Get me out of here !!! Last edited by JRHartley; 27-10-2005 at 08:41.

27-10-2005, 10:28	#14
lozgti Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: midlands Posts: 5,721 Members Car: Thanks: 10 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Spot on JR.Apparantly all our graduates are going overseas now.Wonder why there are gaps to fill here As for immigrants,I know there is a huge spread of people.The ones here however for some reason are all aged about thirty and walk around in gangs of about thirty and hang around the local Tesco in a gang of.....ooh,about thirty. Funnily enough,the Tesco cashpoint recently caught loads of people with a 'Lebanese Loop' or whatever they call it. First benefits ever for myself and the missus.After investing £500,000 in the Governments savings accounts the Twins are now getting child benefit of £17 and £11 and £250 each to be invested on the drugs/cars /women of their choice at 18

27-10-2005, 10:32	#15
lozgti Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: midlands Posts: 5,721 Members Car: Thanks: 10 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Oh.And hearing the Halifax is banning piggy banks for fear of offending muslims slightly irked me. Off topic ish but sod it.

27-10-2005, 10:37	#16
simon Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sunny Aylesbury Posts: 1,041 Members Car: octavia VRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I for one am sick of having to give over a massive chunk of my hard earned dosh every month to support the terminally lazy, the unemployable and silly tarts who cant keep their legs shut! If the welfare state was abolished altogether most of our current problems would be sorted. We would cease to become a soft target for immigrants. People would have no choice but to go and get a bloody job and mabe there would be a few less mindless cretins being bought into the world. Life should not be about handouts. Its about time people learned that __________________ If it feels good....Do it! [IMG]

27-10-2005, 11:05	#17
Fabia 12v RICHARD Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Twickenham - Middlesex Posts: 5,026 Members Car: Skoda Fabia >> VW Golf >> Seat Ibiza >> VW Polo Thanks: 11 Thanked 26 Times in 23 Posts	All the imigrants have been given all the jobs i have applied for and been turned down Guess it looks better on the company's graph of equality. __________________ First Car: Skoda Fabia MK1 1.2 12v Comfort Replaced with: Volkswagen Golf MK4 GT 1.9TDI Replaced with: Seat Ibiza MK4 Sport 1.9TDI Replaced with: Volkswagen Polo MK6 Ltd. Edition Sport 1.4 16v

27-10-2005, 11:10	#18
flyingscot Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Jammed up on her majesties highways Posts: 2,249 Members Car: Skoda Fabia TDi Hatchback Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	1 in 5 people in Glasgow are on disability benifit according to a recnt TV program. It is beyond comprehension that Glasgow should have suddenly have a very ill city, infact it's because these people know the system better than the staff and know what to claim and how! The welfare system started up as everyone by his need. Now? Everyone by his greed. __________________ Colin To come second is to be the first of the losers!