Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petition

anewman · 14-11-2007, 01:30

Thought I would post this here as it affects us with the older Skoda's, and also the early Felicia's. If admins believe it's better suited to another section I'm happy for it to be moved. It currently has 13,596 signatures and only connection I have with it is I looked at the Downing Street petition website, hit transport and looked at the list.

Petition to: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars.

Quote:

Several EU proposals across the years are dangerous to the classic car movement. One that has been under consideration is to ban the use of cars older than 10 years. Similarly, Edinburgh City Council is considering the banning of cars over 15 years old from the town centre. These, and similar, proposals directly threaten the classic car movement, and encourage the manufacture of new cars, with the attendent environmental issues of sourcing raw materials, manufacturing, distriuting and scrapping the spiralling supply of new vehicles.

gcr31463 · 14-11-2007, 01:37

My most modern car is march 1999 so that would be restricted soon too!

mattbeef · 14-11-2007, 10:08

What a crap idea!

How are you supposed to appreciate classic cars with these crap laws.

Signed

Tom_vRS · 14-11-2007, 10:22

I've never heard of any plans to ban cars older than 10 years... any such plan would be met with so much objection, and politically it couldn't happen.

Signed it anyway.

FOZ1 · 14-11-2007, 10:42

Signed.

auroan · 14-11-2007, 12:16

My run around audi A6 is a 1995 vintage... so thats over 10 years old already. Bloody idiots this government and europe.

Dr Zoidberg · 14-11-2007, 12:25

Like most of these petitions , they are campaining against something that there are no plans to introduce.

Googling for this finds lots of people foaming at the mouth when discussing the petition , but no mention of any actual EU proposals

anewman · 14-11-2007, 12:32

I think there was in the news not so long ago that one European city had banned a certain type of very old polluting car, and they were shown on the news driving through the city for the last time or in protest?! Can't remember the exact details.

To be honest I wouldn't imagine a City centre ban would happen based on purely age, but I'm guessing we all thought road pricing and black boxes compulsorily fitted in cars would never be considered too, so I'd say it's definitely worth voicing an opinion against any such suggestions.

This petition certainly has plenty of signatures anyway, I wonder if it will get enough to warrant a response from Mr Brown. I like how the one from Mr Bliar about road pricing got lost in my spam folder.

woodenspatulas · 14-11-2007, 12:39

wtf is going on with the world???

ban old cars
putting beer up to stop binging
toll roads
etc etc etc

its been said before but this countries going down the pan faster than last nights curry!`

anewman · 14-11-2007, 12:47

Came across this. Looks like this perhaps best describes the current situation.

EU Want to ban cars older than 10years old!! - Alfa Romeo Forum

Quote:

It's NOT cars over 10 years old. It's pre emission control
(< ?1993) cars.

It's NOT an EU policy. It's the fact that ONE Germany
city has introduced this and Edinburgh council is
going on a jolly to take a look at it.

The only EU involvement is that if cities break EU
set guidelines on ground pollution more than a certain
number of times in a given year, they can get heavily fined.

Skoda-Msport · 14-11-2007, 19:21

Quote:

think there was in the news not so long ago that one European city had banned a certain type of very old polluting car, and they were shown on the news driving through the city for the last time or in protest?! Can't remember the exact details.

...You are quite right mate. It was Stuttgart, they banned all pre 1996 cars for entering thier city centre.

This is just another move by the PC brigade. Should be all taken out and shot. If they banned older cars just think of the effect on the environment...everyone would have to buy new cars, forcing production of cars going up heavily, meaning more damage to the planet. Its more environmentally friendly to recycle an old car by buying secondhand than to keep buying new cars. Fools.

shytot · 15-11-2007, 23:07

Both my cars are 1995 M-reg vehicles. I have given up on newer vehicles after losing £5,000 in depreciation in just over 2 years ownership of a Ford Explorer. I'm gonna run older cars for the forseeable future. The Favorit cost £300 about 2 years ago and I blew a whopping £700 on a Frontera Sport 2.8TDI earlier this year. (That's the one with the Isuzu engine). At least I won't be losing 5 grand on those two...

Simon H

anewman · 15-11-2007, 23:26

Yeah definitely best being at the more favourable end of depreciation - no point trying to keep up with the joneses with a new car every possible reg and flaunting it, when you can save money for that ever increasing petrol and enjoy better holidays etc etc than those with new cars

I'll never understand the people who refuse to buy older cars on grounds of reliability and safety either. In terms of reliability I've never had a problem myself. In terms of safety I try not to drive like a complete idiot.

I'll personally never get a loan for a car. I don't see the point in paying extra to get something you can't afford anyway, when you can get decent cars for under £1k very easily.

I think my next car [after mine's past it's useable life (probably engine failure worse than head gasket, or severe rust that fails an MOT)] will probably be another Favorit, or if I put the boat out a felicia. Strip my existing car of good bits and scrap it. Seems like the most cost conscious way of motoring to me.

coupeman · 16-11-2007, 14:25

I seem to remember that in france older cars are restricted on how far they can travel from their registered address, and doesnt Prague and Paris have a similar inner city exclusion or is that just a proposal

TeflonTom · 16-11-2007, 17:31

i think it's a conspiricy by the feds to revive rover and then tell us all it's illegal if you dont have one...

oilburninnut · 16-11-2007, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeflonTom

i think it's a conspiricy by the feds to revive rover and then tell us all it's illegal if you dont have one...

fordfan · 16-11-2007, 21:29

Quote:

Yeah definitely best being at the more favourable end of depreciation - no point trying to keep up with the joneses with a new car every possible reg and flaunting it, when you can save money for that ever increasing petrol and enjoy better holidays etc etc than those with new cars

I'll never understand the people who refuse to buy older cars on grounds of reliability and safety either. In terms of reliability I've never had a problem myself. In terms of safety I try not to drive like a complete idiot.

I'll personally never get a loan for a car. I don't see the point in paying extra to get something you can't afford anyway, when you can get decent cars for under £1k very easily.

I think my next car [after mine's past it's useable life (probably engine failure worse than head gasket, or severe rust that fails an MOT)] will probably be another Favorit, or if I put the boat out a felicia. Strip my existing car of good bits and scrap it. Seems like the most cost conscious way of motoring to me.

Totally agree there, there will never be an environmentally friendly car. Exhaust emissions are only part of it, but it is is the only citeria by which cars are judged to be polluters/non polluters. They should take into account the whole life emmissions, the energy used in research/development and manufacturing, extracting raw materials (open cast mining methods for the precious metals used in the catalyst, sensors and electronics), transportation, R134A refrigerant emissions through natural diffusion through the A/C seals (how often do you hear of people needing an A/C re-gas?) and when there is an accident (the condensor is usually forward of the radiator). In 1995 there were 0.16 million tonnes CO2 equivalent from car A/C in 2005 this figure was 3.06. Also the deign life of a modern car, the last thing that the manufacturers want is a car that will last for more than 10 years, the Octavia 1 is designed to last for 15 maximum before the airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners require replacement, with all the complicated electronics in them they can be beyond economical repair well before then.

Modern cars better for the environment? on the single emissions criteria - yes, take the other factors into account - no, it's the goverment and car manufacturers propaganda to keep the economy running and to line their pockets.

shytot · 17-11-2007, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by coupeman

I seem to remember that in france older cars are restricted on how far they can travel from their registered address, and doesnt Prague and Paris have a similar inner city exclusion or is that just a proposal

I dunno how far they are restricted to travel but one of my neighbours has recently been visited by one of his relatives who lives in central France. He turned up in a 1960/70's corrugated sided Citroen van - not one of those 2CV things but a van about the same size as a Mk1 Transit or Bedford CF. Brave man...

Simon H

Reece_1 · 17-11-2007, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordfan

. Also the deign life of a modern car, the last thing that the manufacturers want is a car that will last for more than 10 years, the Octavia 1 is designed to last for 15 maximum before the airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners require replacement, with all the complicated electronics in them they can be beyond economical repair well before then.

Modern cars better for the environment? on the single emissions criteria - yes, take the other factors into account - no, it's the goverment and car manufacturers propaganda to keep the economy running and to line their pockets.

Exactly, and manufacturers these days keep introducing new models every few years, no longer is there any long production runs like the VW Beetle (albeit with production updates). Its the old car = banger mindset, thats not all true as there some very well cared for older (Not yet classic) cars out there. There was some rumblings in the classic car world about potential Euro regulations like this, apparently out of all the European countries, we Brits are big fans of older cars. No goverment, British, European or whatever, is going stop me buying, restoring, using a classic car.

Note - dont know if this is true, but heard that in Japan you are not allowed to own a car (unless its of historic value etc) over 5 years old.

TaffTaff · 18-11-2007, 16:10

A blanket ban on older cars would be foolish. Ours are 'L' and 'M' and 'P' reg. and all have catalysts. What matters is that every car on the road should be roadworthy and not excessively polluting. That's what MoT tests are for. If Edinburgh or wherever leans on the Bill to pull people over for generating smoke and require them to get a test (and have valid insurance, tax etc.) then that's fine by me. It won't hurt those that care for their cars and want to drive safely in them. Let's not get all steamed up about something that isn't even a proposal yet!
Taff

peteRS · 18-11-2007, 17:47

I have signed up too as my "other" playthings are 1990 and '93 , both have cats ...

fordfan · 18-11-2007, 22:38

They will be doing a similar thing in London from next year, initially for lorries and later vans will be added:

Low Emission Zone | Transport for London

anewman · 18-11-2007, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordfan

They will be doing a similar thing in London from next year, initially for lorries and later vans will be added:

Low Emission Zone | Transport for London

I suppose we could consider that the death knell, as it looks like the start of a slippery slope to me.

fordfan · 18-11-2007, 22:45

Won't do the motor sport at Wimbledon any good.

14-11-2007, 01:37	#2
gcr31463 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 748 Members Car: Thanks: 20 Thanked 24 Times in 23 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti My most modern car is march 1999 so that would be restricted soon too! __________________ Octy II 2.0 (?Turbo?)DI Plus some RWD stuff. Next trip from Scunthorpe & Doncaster http://briskoda.net/midlands-skoda-m...26-oct/125071/

14-11-2007, 10:08	#3
mattbeef Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Sheffield Posts: 3,362 Members Car: Red Octy vRS Thanks: 36 Thanked 116 Times in 115 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti What a crap idea! How are you supposed to appreciate classic cars with these crap laws. Signed __________________ I few bits here and there but im happy to Performance Torque Go on click me you know you want to

14-11-2007, 10:22	#4
Tom_vRS Briskodaholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Fenland, Cambridgeshire Posts: 11,559 Members Car: '97R BMW 328i Saloon Thanks: 679 Thanked 436 Times in 313 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti I've never heard of any plans to ban cars older than 10 years... any such plan would be met with so much objection, and politically it couldn't happen. Signed it anyway. __________________ 97/R BMW 328i in Boston Green.

14-11-2007, 10:42	#5
FOZ1 Go 4X4 it Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: RH Front seat :) Posts: 1,132 Members Car: Octavia 1.8T 4X4 5DR Thanks: 6 Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti Signed. __________________ Out of the asylum.- Into Freedom(Again ) Previous:-Red Citroen ZX Volcane, Chipped, Black Diamond drilled & grooved front discs, Greenstuff pads, Green Induction Kit, 16" Alloys.Powerflow exhaust.

14-11-2007, 12:16	#6
auroan Briskoda Staff Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2,908 Members Car: AUDI A4 B7 2.0 TDI SE Saloon Thanks: 212 Thanked 113 Times in 99 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti My run around audi A6 is a 1995 vintage... so thats over 10 years old already. Bloody idiots this government and europe. __________________ '05 Audi A4 2.0 Tdi SE - no mods until the warrenty expires ... yeah right... interior light pack, 3 spoke mfsw. '00 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro - Gone.... (bleeding money pit ) Audi A4 2.6 Avant (Breaking - Check out http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/auroan)

14-11-2007, 12:25	#7
Dr Zoidberg Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: On the back of an AA truck with a failed turbo Posts: 10,759 Members Car: Octavia II 2.0 TDi Elegance Thanks: 31 Thanked 196 Times in 147 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti Like most of these petitions , they are campaining against something that there are no plans to introduce. Googling for this finds lots of people foaming at the mouth when discussing the petition , but no mention of any actual EU proposals __________________ Alex "I laugh in the face of danger, then I hide until it goes away" www.drzoidberg.co.uk

14-11-2007, 12:32	#8
anewman Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Leeds Posts: 2,997 Members Car: 1994 Skoda Favorit GLXIe Estate Images: 1 Thanks: 1,121 Thanked 263 Times in 237 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti I think there was in the news not so long ago that one European city had banned a certain type of very old polluting car, and they were shown on the news driving through the city for the last time or in protest?! Can't remember the exact details. To be honest I wouldn't imagine a City centre ban would happen based on purely age, but I'm guessing we all thought road pricing and black boxes compulsorily fitted in cars would never be considered too, so I'd say it's definitely worth voicing an opinion against any such suggestions. This petition certainly has plenty of signatures anyway, I wonder if it will get enough to warrant a response from Mr Brown. I like how the one from Mr Bliar about road pricing got lost in my spam folder. __________________ 94 Favorit GLXIe Estate Briskoda "Banger" social group

14-11-2007, 12:39	#9
woodenspatulas Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 1,391 Members Car: vauxhall vectra and omega and 1.9tdi new fabia Thanks: 37 Thanked 68 Times in 56 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti wtf is going on with the world??? ban old cars putting beer up to stop binging toll roads etc etc etc its been said before but this countries going down the pan faster than last nights curry!` __________________ Where has my sig pic gone????

15-11-2007, 23:07	#12
shytot Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire Posts: 43 Members Car: '94 Favorit Thanks: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti Both my cars are 1995 M-reg vehicles. I have given up on newer vehicles after losing £5,000 in depreciation in just over 2 years ownership of a Ford Explorer. I'm gonna run older cars for the forseeable future. The Favorit cost £300 about 2 years ago and I blew a whopping £700 on a Frontera Sport 2.8TDI earlier this year. (That's the one with the Isuzu engine). At least I won't be losing 5 grand on those two... Simon H

15-11-2007, 23:26	#13
anewman Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Leeds Posts: 2,997 Members Car: 1994 Skoda Favorit GLXIe Estate Images: 1 Thanks: 1,121 Thanked 263 Times in 237 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti Yeah definitely best being at the more favourable end of depreciation - no point trying to keep up with the joneses with a new car every possible reg and flaunting it, when you can save money for that ever increasing petrol and enjoy better holidays etc etc than those with new cars I'll never understand the people who refuse to buy older cars on grounds of reliability and safety either. In terms of reliability I've never had a problem myself. In terms of safety I try not to drive like a complete idiot. I'll personally never get a loan for a car. I don't see the point in paying extra to get something you can't afford anyway, when you can get decent cars for under £1k very easily. I think my next car [after mine's past it's useable life (probably engine failure worse than head gasket, or severe rust that fails an MOT)] will probably be another Favorit, or if I put the boat out a felicia. Strip my existing car of good bits and scrap it. Seems like the most cost conscious way of motoring to me. __________________ 94 Favorit GLXIe Estate Briskoda "Banger" social group

16-11-2007, 14:25	#14
coupeman Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: hampshire Posts: 5 Members Car: s110r, 136 rapid sport cabriolet, mk1 ex works rallycourse recon estelle, 20th anniversary estelle, Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti I seem to remember that in france older cars are restricted on how far they can travel from their registered address, and doesnt Prague and Paris have a similar inner city exclusion or is that just a proposal

16-11-2007, 17:31	#15
TeflonTom Briskodiodion Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hayling Island, Hampshire Posts: 8,240 Members Car: Fabia 2.0/Felicia Thanks: 48 Thanked 233 Times in 205 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti i think it's a conspiricy by the feds to revive rover and then tell us all it's illegal if you dont have one...

18-11-2007, 16:10	#20
TaffTaff Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's the condition of the car that matters A blanket ban on older cars would be foolish. Ours are 'L' and 'M' and 'P' reg. and all have catalysts. What matters is that every car on the road should be roadworthy and not excessively polluting. That's what MoT tests are for. If Edinburgh or wherever leans on the Bill to pull people over for generating smoke and require them to get a test (and have valid insurance, tax etc.) then that's fine by me. It won't hurt those that care for their cars and want to drive safely in them. Let's not get all steamed up about something that isn't even a proposal yet! Taff

18-11-2007, 17:47	#21
peteRS Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 106 Members Car: Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti I have signed up too as my "other" playthings are 1990 and '93 , both have cats ... __________________ Mk I Octavia vrs Other toys include 1994 BMW M3 coupe Kawasaki ZRX 1200s

18-11-2007, 22:38	#22
fordfan ECUless Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,064 Members Car: Thanks: 31 Thanked 250 Times in 218 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti They will be doing a similar thing in London from next year, initially for lorries and later vans will be added: Low Emission Zone \| Transport for London

18-11-2007, 22:45	#24
fordfan ECUless Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,064 Members Car: Thanks: 31 Thanked 250 Times in 218 Posts	Re: Reject any proposals to ban or restrict the use of older cars (10 years)T- Petiti Won't do the motor sport at Wimbledon any good.