The dreaded DPF

Jenks · 30-03-2008, 17:35

[

###To make matters 50x worse, the ball pins on the upper arms and trackrods are held in place by unplated pinch bolts. As these are in the wheelarch (the suspension pinchbolts are in line with the tyre) they get pelted with water and mud - and rust in solid.

VAG have a special tool to get them out, which doesn't work. I take all these bolts out once a year and grease them - it's a quick job which can be done without jacking the car up or removing the wheels.###

Would a squirt of WD40 every time you washed the car have the same effect?

Jenks

rotodiesel · 30-03-2008, 18:14

Not a chance. These bolts are about 4" long and all of the metalwork is ferrous and unplated. To make absolutely sure these bolts rust solidly in along their entire length, VAG have put slots in the steering knuckle to allow the water to penetrate fully.

(Slightly tongue in cheek comment - the slots are of course necessary to allow the pinch bolts to squeeze up the knuckle and grip the ball pins, but the whole thing must have been designed by an absolute muppett. They didn't do it again on the new Passat.)

Haynes manual 3017 won't cover the PD diesel - much better to swap it for a 4279 which covers the B5.5 - the progenitor of the Superb.

rotodiesel.

dieselV6 · 02-04-2008, 16:41

OK, let's keep hijacking the thread ;-)

I also had the problem with removing the bolts after just 1 winter. I have greased them too, and hope that they'll get out easily next time.
However, next time I do anything on the suspension, I'll just put nickel-based anti-seize on them, and I bet that that will do the trick for many years...

Regarding your comments on the Superb, I guess it depends what you use it for. I would link the frequent bush failures to the use of your car as a towcar as that will put constant stress, especially in turns.

I have a 2.5V6 manual Superb, use it for high speed motorway cruises across Europe, and after some suspension adaptations it is fantastic and practically trouble free for the last 40k miles. In fact, the only damage that I had to repair (CV boot replacement) was self-inflicted during earlier suspension update (I pinched the boot and it avolved into a tiny hole. stlg12 replacement).

Superb is heavy and I am mentally prepared for a few arm replacements later, but that front suspension is also much better than the Octavia's or the new Passat on uneven roads destroyed by trucks.

Summing up, if you still like Skodas and drive slow, get the new Superb. If you value your travel experience and drive across Germany, keep the old one (hopefully a V6) :-)

But I do have a sticking point against VW Group cars, namely the shock absorber quality. Basically, if you are after no compromise driving, you have to replace all your shocks for something better (Bilstein Sports are my current favourite, but Konis will ). I saw the same shockingly poor wear rate on Octavia, Superb, and on friend's Golf. No idea if Audis are as bad. The shocks last for about 15k, I do shock replacement, then 25k of worry free motoring without any signs of wear from the shocks... or 80k in case of the Octavia.

PS. The cost of suspension repairs is nowhere near the garage estimates if you get the parts and do it yourself. One advantage of the Superb is that despite more complicated layout, you can drop the entire suspension assembly out of the chassis relatively easily, and then replace the bits and pieces required.

bahnstormer vrs · 02-04-2008, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lummox

Just a point worth making the Superb DPF doesnt selfregenrate. The filter has a finite life and will require changing as it doesnt empty out fully.

Unlike the DPF on the Octavia vRS TDI which does (regenerate); I presume?

Jenks · 02-04-2008, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dieselV6

OK, let's keep hijacking the thread ;-)

I also had the problem with removing the bolts after just 1 winter. I have greased them too, and hope that they'll get out easily next time.
However, next time I do anything on the suspension, I'll just put nickel-based anti-seize on them, and I bet that that will do the trick for many years...

Regarding your comments on the Superb, I guess it depends what you use it for. I would link the frequent bush failures to the use of your car as a towcar as that will put constant stress, especially in turns.

I have a 2.5V6 manual Superb, use it for high speed motorway cruises across Europe, and after some suspension adaptations it is fantastic and practically trouble free for the last 40k miles. In fact, the only damage that I had to repair (CV boot replacement) was self-inflicted during earlier suspension update (I pinched the boot and it avolved into a tiny hole. stlg12 replacement).

Superb is heavy and I am mentally prepared for a few arm replacements later, but that front suspension is also much better than the Octavia's or the new Passat on uneven roads destroyed by trucks.

Summing up, if you still like Skodas and drive slow, get the new Superb. If you value your travel experience and drive across Germany, keep the old one (hopefully a V6) :-)

But I do have a sticking point against VW Group cars, namely the shock absorber quality. Basically, if you are after no compromise driving, you have to replace all your shocks for something better (Bilstein Sports are my current favourite, but Konis will ). I saw the same shockingly poor wear rate on Octavia, Superb, and on friend's Golf. No idea if Audis are as bad. The shocks last for about 15k, I do shock replacement, then 25k of worry free motoring without any signs of wear from the shocks... or 80k in case of the Octavia.

PS. The cost of suspension repairs is nowhere near the garage estimates if you get the parts and do it yourself. One advantage of the Superb is that despite more complicated layout, you can drop the entire suspension assembly out of the chassis relatively easily, and then replace the bits and pieces required.

Oh no! Now I have to worry about crappy shock absorbers as well as the DPF and the pinch bolt siezing in.

Jenks

rotodiesel · 02-04-2008, 22:19

If you make absolutely sure you can get the pinch bolts out, it's not that much of a job replacing the shock absorbers - the only special tool you need is a spring compressor. If the pinch bolts are rusted in - grief.

In defence of the Superb, my shock absorbers are still reasonably good after a lot of hard work (especially on the rears). A set of Konis will probably be fitted as soon as I am unhappy with the damping. At least the standard back springs are up to taking the nose weight of my trailer.

rotodiesel.

Supurbia · 02-04-2008, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenks

Oh no! Now I have to worry about crappy shock absorbers as well as the DPF and the pinch bolt siezing in.

Jenks

Don't worry mate, I got caught the same way, everyone telling me what a great car and they never go wrong and I should get one, funny how 9 mths on I'm the only one left with one now eh.

Lummox · 03-04-2008, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bahnstormer vrs

Unlike the DPF on the Octavia vRS TDI which does (regenerate); I presume?

Correct.

dieselV6 · 03-04-2008, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supurbia

Don't worry mate, I got caught the same way, everyone telling me what a great car and they never go wrong and I should get one, funny how 9 mths on I'm the only one left with one now eh.

I understand that you wanted trouble free car that'll be serviced at dealer. Well, you would be better off getting a Honda, e.g. Accord CDTI. In fact, if you are after dealer servicing, avoid any VW brand at all cost.

Personally, apart from a few nigles what I got is a stlg20k comfortable cruiser relatively inexpensive to run as a motorway rocket.

On a recent trip to Bavaria, over the last 200miles the only car that overtook me was a BMW 7 series with a stonking big 5l petrol engine... but after another 10min I caught up with it and left it behind.

Now my fuel consumption was above 20mpg, and I'm sure the BMWs was well below 15mpg at that speed. Add to that the fact that I paid less than half the price of the BMW and got comparable comfort and motorway manners.

To my knowledge, there is only one better car for this kind of driving, and it is Audi A6 3.0TDI quattro manual saloon. Longer range due to bigger fuel tank and still economical diesel, good, responsive engine with more power, and lower overall tyre wear at high speeds due to permanent 4 wheel drive (keep in mind at 130mph+ you are putting on average 150bhp+ to the road).

However, with like for like specification it costs almost exactly double the Superb's price (e.g. Audi charges stlg300 for a set of mudflaps and carpets, you get the picture), and there is no way you can opt out of some features such as MMI, which in my opinion will take Audi at least the lifetime of my current Superb to get it right. Plus chances are that Audi servicing is similar to the rest of VW Group practice

rotodiesel · 03-04-2008, 09:52

I agree the Superb is at its best as a motorway cruiser. Here in the UK the legal speed limit is about 110 kph at which the Superb will run all day without stress.

The 130 PS PD 4 cyl diesel is the best of the bunch though - the V6 is disproportionately thirsty (compare the CO2 ratings for very similar outputs) is old tech (VE pump) and has some long term reliability problems. The auto version is really bad - no better performance than a manual 130 and far higher fuel consumption and emissions.

To return to the thread, it's a great pity they wrecked it all by the DPF fitment VAG put on the Superb. This was a bodge which has come home to roost (roast?).

rotodiesel.

dieselV6 · 03-04-2008, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotodiesel

I agree the Superb is at its best as a motorway cruiser. Here in the UK the legal speed limit is about 110 kph at which the Superb will run all day without stress.

The 130 PS PD 4 cyl diesel is the best of the bunch though - the V6 is disproportionately thirsty (compare the CO2 ratings for very similar outputs) is old tech (VE pump) and has some long term reliability problems. The auto version is really bad - no better performance than a manual 130 and far higher fuel consumption and emissions.

To return to the thread, it's a great pity they wrecked it all by the DPF fitment VAG put on the Superb. This was a bodge which has come home to roost (roast?).

rotodiesel.

As for the UK speed limit, in my experience the actual motorway traffic speed is closer to 90mph-95mph....Although I did notice a bit of slow down recently, perhaps due to fuel prices.

Anyway, I agree on all points, but you cannot drive 130PD at 130-140mph for hours at a time. In fact, the max speed is probably below 130mph? That's why 2.5V6 manual was my choice. I think this engine could use even less fuel when cruising were it not for short gearing - it has the same gearing in 6th as the 130PD Old Octavia, which given that it is a V6 with spades of torque from idle is quite ridiculous.

What long-term reliability problems on 2.5V6 TDI do you have in mind? Expensive and complicated TB job is the only thing I am aware of.

I think that if maintained properly, that engine is no worse than the 1.9. Most "injection pump failure" jobs are originated by greedy workshops which, especially around winter time and a run of hard starting problems, attempt to substitute pump index adjustment and a glow plug replacement (stlg 100?) with injection pump replacement (stlg1000?). Sadly, that con goes on for most diesel powered cars these days, I "rescued" at least 2 friends from it, 1 in Germany, 1 in UK. 3 glow plugs gone and the workshop says change injection pump

rotodiesel · 03-04-2008, 16:18

The V6 diesel never got a taller top gear (which as you rightly say, it could easily pull) because VAG knew it was a run-out engine and it just wasn't worth cutting another gearset for it. The V6 with a VE pump is now I believe, out of production.

The reliability issues surrounding this engine are the very high cost of renewing the timing belts (there is a separate one for the VE), water pump failure leading to engine destruction (applies also to the PD but seems to happen more often on the V6) and oil leaks from various points which are expensive to fix.

The V6 with a manual box is good car to drive and would make a brilliant tow car, but on consideration of its efficiency (fuel is not getting cheaper) and the UK speed limits, I went for the 130 PS PD. It's a great engine - pity about the 2 litre versions.

I absolutely agree with you about the ineptness of the dealers. In the UK, the number of perfectly good PD turbochargers replaced by them to "fix" boost problems caused by other things is incredible. No wonder VAG service has such a bad name.

rotodiesel.

Jenks · 11-04-2008, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by bahnstormer vrs

I have a DPF on my Octavia vRS TDI; had it now for a year and 18,000 miles. It gets a daily 50 mile commute including a couple of full throttle accelerations up a M-way slip road and M-way cruise.

The regeneration cycle, with its 1,000 rpm tickover and gruff engine note for a few minutes, has happened about 3 or 4 times only and then only after being 'stuck' in urban traffic (NW London where I work gets pretty clogged up at times). I have not had the DPF warning light flash on at all.

That your DPF light came on after leaving the dealer is probably symptomatic of it being trundled around the car park whilst it was in the dealership, and not reflective of its daily use.

No; engine gas temperature is a function of combustion. as described there is plenty of combustion, so plenty of temperature.

No; less fuel so less combustion, but typically incomplete so generation of soot/particulates. To provide good combustion and use plenty of fuel. Stationary the engine will require little fuel to run at 2000 rpm and therefore not enough to burn off the soot. Clear or confused further?

Still confused... Yesterday my partner drove the car on the motorwat for 30 minutes her speed was between 70-80 mph. indicated temperature was 90.

Today she was stuck in traffic for over 30 minutes,

mostly stop start max speed 20 mph. indicated temperature was 90.

how does this fit in with # plenty of combustion, so plenty of temperature.#

Incidentaley the DPF light did not appear Phew!

Jenks · 14-04-2008, 13:33

Is this the type of DPF fitted to the Superb?

YouTube - Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) - MA - HUSS fitlers

Jenks

Jenks · 14-04-2008, 16:13

This set up seems much better.. YouTube - Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) - MK

Jenks

Jenks · 14-04-2008, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenks

Still confused... Yesterday my partner drove the car on the motorwat for 30 minutes her speed was between 70-80 mph. indicated temperature was 90.

Today she was stuck in traffic for over 30 minutes,

mostly stop start max speed 20 mph. indicated temperature was 90.

how does this fit in with # plenty of combustion, so plenty of temperature.#

Incidentaley the DPF light did not appear Phew!

Still looking for help on this one!

Jenks

Jenks · 15-04-2008, 09:34

It seems that as of today 14th April 2008 petrol and diesel must contain 2.5% Bio-fuel. How it that going to effect those of us who have the misfortune to have a vehicle fitted with a DPF. I gather that bio-fuel is not suitable for such vehicles.

BBC News Player - Biofuels - a hidden cost?

Jenks

30-03-2008, 17:35	#21
Jenks Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 62 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: The dreaded DPF [ ###To make matters 50x worse, the ball pins on the upper arms and trackrods are held in place by unplated pinch bolts. As these are in the wheelarch (the suspension pinchbolts are in line with the tyre) they get pelted with water and mud - and rust in solid. VAG have a special tool to get them out, which doesn't work. I take all these bolts out once a year and grease them - it's a quick job which can be done without jacking the car up or removing the wheels.### Would a squirt of WD40 every time you washed the car have the same effect? Jenks

30-03-2008, 18:14	#22
rotodiesel Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 574 Thanks: 3 Thanked 59 Times in 54 Posts	Re: The dreaded DPF Not a chance. These bolts are about 4" long and all of the metalwork is ferrous and unplated. To make absolutely sure these bolts rust solidly in along their entire length, VAG have put slots in the steering knuckle to allow the water to penetrate fully. (Slightly tongue in cheek comment - the slots are of course necessary to allow the pinch bolts to squeeze up the knuckle and grip the ball pins, but the whole thing must have been designed by an absolute muppett. They didn't do it again on the new Passat.) Haynes manual 3017 won't cover the PD diesel - much better to swap it for a 4279 which covers the B5.5 - the progenitor of the Superb. rotodiesel. Last edited by rotodiesel; 30-03-2008 at 18:19.

02-04-2008, 16:41	#23
dieselV6 Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Re: The dreaded DPF OK, let's keep hijacking the thread ;-) I also had the problem with removing the bolts after just 1 winter. I have greased them too, and hope that they'll get out easily next time. However, next time I do anything on the suspension, I'll just put nickel-based anti-seize on them, and I bet that that will do the trick for many years... Regarding your comments on the Superb, I guess it depends what you use it for. I would link the frequent bush failures to the use of your car as a towcar as that will put constant stress, especially in turns. I have a 2.5V6 manual Superb, use it for high speed motorway cruises across Europe, and after some suspension adaptations it is fantastic and practically trouble free for the last 40k miles. In fact, the only damage that I had to repair (CV boot replacement) was self-inflicted during earlier suspension update (I pinched the boot and it avolved into a tiny hole. stlg12 replacement). Superb is heavy and I am mentally prepared for a few arm replacements later, but that front suspension is also much better than the Octavia's or the new Passat on uneven roads destroyed by trucks. Summing up, if you still like Skodas and drive slow, get the new Superb. If you value your travel experience and drive across Germany, keep the old one (hopefully a V6) :-) But I do have a sticking point against VW Group cars, namely the shock absorber quality. Basically, if you are after no compromise driving, you have to replace all your shocks for something better (Bilstein Sports are my current favourite, but Konis will ). I saw the same shockingly poor wear rate on Octavia, Superb, and on friend's Golf. No idea if Audis are as bad. The shocks last for about 15k, I do shock replacement, then 25k of worry free motoring without any signs of wear from the shocks... or 80k in case of the Octavia. PS. The cost of suspension repairs is nowhere near the garage estimates if you get the parts and do it yourself. One advantage of the Superb is that despite more complicated layout, you can drop the entire suspension assembly out of the chassis relatively easily, and then replace the bits and pieces required. __________________ -------------------------------------- Superb 2.5TDIV6, manual 6-spd

02-04-2008, 22:19	#26
rotodiesel Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 574 Thanks: 3 Thanked 59 Times in 54 Posts	Re: The dreaded DPF If you make absolutely sure you can get the pinch bolts out, it's not that much of a job replacing the shock absorbers - the only special tool you need is a spring compressor. If the pinch bolts are rusted in - grief. In defence of the Superb, my shock absorbers are still reasonably good after a lot of hard work (especially on the rears). A set of Konis will probably be fitted as soon as I am unhappy with the damping. At least the standard back springs are up to taking the nose weight of my trailer. rotodiesel.

03-04-2008, 09:52	#30
rotodiesel Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 574 Thanks: 3 Thanked 59 Times in 54 Posts	Re: The dreaded DPF I agree the Superb is at its best as a motorway cruiser. Here in the UK the legal speed limit is about 110 kph at which the Superb will run all day without stress. The 130 PS PD 4 cyl diesel is the best of the bunch though - the V6 is disproportionately thirsty (compare the CO2 ratings for very similar outputs) is old tech (VE pump) and has some long term reliability problems. The auto version is really bad - no better performance than a manual 130 and far higher fuel consumption and emissions. To return to the thread, it's a great pity they wrecked it all by the DPF fitment VAG put on the Superb. This was a bodge which has come home to roost (roast?). rotodiesel.

03-04-2008, 16:18	#32
rotodiesel Briskodian Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 574 Thanks: 3 Thanked 59 Times in 54 Posts	Re: The dreaded DPF The V6 diesel never got a taller top gear (which as you rightly say, it could easily pull) because VAG knew it was a run-out engine and it just wasn't worth cutting another gearset for it. The V6 with a VE pump is now I believe, out of production. The reliability issues surrounding this engine are the very high cost of renewing the timing belts (there is a separate one for the VE), water pump failure leading to engine destruction (applies also to the PD but seems to happen more often on the V6) and oil leaks from various points which are expensive to fix. The V6 with a manual box is good car to drive and would make a brilliant tow car, but on consideration of its efficiency (fuel is not getting cheaper) and the UK speed limits, I went for the 130 PS PD. It's a great engine - pity about the 2 litre versions. I absolutely agree with you about the ineptness of the dealers. In the UK, the number of perfectly good PD turbochargers replaced by them to "fix" boost problems caused by other things is incredible. No wonder VAG service has such a bad name. rotodiesel.

14-04-2008, 13:33	#34
Jenks Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 62 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: The dreaded DPF Is this the type of DPF fitted to the Superb? YouTube - Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) - MA - HUSS fitlers Jenks

14-04-2008, 16:13	#35
Jenks Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 62 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: The dreaded DPF This set up seems much better.. YouTube - Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) - MK Jenks

15-04-2008, 09:34	#37
Jenks Briskodian Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 62 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: The dreaded DPF It seems that as of today 14th April 2008 petrol and diesel must contain 2.5% Bio-fuel. How it that going to effect those of us who have the misfortune to have a vehicle fitted with a DPF. I gather that bio-fuel is not suitable for such vehicles. BBC News Player - Biofuels - a hidden cost? Jenks

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