ScoobyChris

Have that Skoda CS number happy - I have a feeling you're going to need it

Chris

__________________
Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

THE KICK INSIDE

Well i have been busy with vag-com (isnt it nice!)


Thursday, 31 January 2008, 19:02:53

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US



Control Module Part Number: 8E0 907 401 T

Component and/or Version: 2.5l/4VTEDC G010SG 0006

Software Coding: 04002

Work Shop Code: WSC 17029

Additional Info: 00006059 130 106KC318_1.V14116647482

Additional Info: 00006059 130 106KC318_1.V14116647482

No fault code found.

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Thursday 31 January 2008 19:18:55 8E0 907 401 T 2.5l/4VTEDC G010SG 0006 Group A: '013 Diff. cyl.3 vs cyl.2 Diff. cyl.1 vs cyl.2 TIME -1.5 to +1.5 -1.5 to +1.5 Marker STAMP mg/str mg/str 0.4 -3.14 -0.71 1.6 -3.14 -0.71 2.8 -3.14 -0.71 4 -3.14 -0.71 5.2 -3.14 -0.71 6.4 -3.14 -0.71

Group B: '014 Diff. cyl.6 vs cyl.2 Diff. cyl.4 vs cyl.2 Diff. cyl.5 vs cyl.2 TIME -1.5 to +1.5 -1.5 to +1.5 -1.5 to +1.5 STAMP mg/str mg/str mg/str 0.8 -1.49 1.88 -0.08 1.98 -1.49 1.8 -0.08 3.2 -1.49 1.8 -0.16 4.4 -1.49 1.8 -0.16 5.6 -1.57 1.8 -0.16 6.8 -1.57 1.8 -0.16



Group C: '001 Engine speed Injected quantity Qty adj valve Coolant temp TIME 740-840 rpm 3.0-8.0 act. time 15-25*Ck 85-105*C STAMP /min mg/str CF °C 0.01 719 4.7 25.2 85.8 1.2 719 4.7 24.6 85.8 2.4 719 4.7 24.6 85.8 3.6 719 4.7 24.6 85.8 4.8 696 5 25.2 85.8 6 719 4.4 25.2 85.8


iam posting this here for two reasons, firstly to see if anyone has any feedback, secondly because this could get nasty and by posting it here i 'time-stamp' the data to some extent!


anyone buy that the result of temp sensor producing 'codes' ? (ps its done about 20-25 miles in 4 trips since they found the 'codes'...

thanks for everyone's kind words....btw

THE KICK INSIDE

hmm that didnt work so well....



coolant 85.8
cyl 3 compared to cyl 2 = -3.14 (limit -1.5 to +1.5)
cyl1 compared to cyl 2 = -0.71 (limit -1.5 to +1.5)
cyl 6 compared to cyl 2 = -1.49 to -1.57 (limit -1.5 to +1.5)
cyl 4 compared to cyl 2 = 1.88 to 1.8 (limit -1.5 to +1.5)
cyl 5 compared to cyl 2 = -0.08 to -0.16 (limit -1.5 to +1.5)

all of these are mg/str

engine speed 696-719 rpm
injected qty = 4.7 mg/str (limit 3.0-8.0)

that's the story morning glory - now anyone liking the temp sensor.....or anyone thinking injector 3 is on the fritz and the rest are just trying to catchup?

Supurbia

Ok, before you spend any more money at the dealer I would suggest this, as the dealer would've found the fault if it is sensor related, first go get a can of injector cleaner (I know Simon I said I was told not to use it) use a good quality one, not some motor factor £2.99 job, I always use a VX one by Fortron, it's not cheap but it does what it says on the bottle, add this to half a tank of fuel, and run it through, motorway is best with a few highish revs to fully open things up, I don't mean redline btw, 4500 tops, see if this makes any difference, if it doesn't another oil change is required for the next stage, again a good quality oil flush this time, get the engine hot and then add it, leave it toidle for ten minutes max and then drain it, replace filter and put new oil in, this should eliminate sticking hydraulics for you, both the treatments are iirc about £12 each, but if you know someone who is on the VX trade card they drop to about £4 each, they also do an oil reconditioner, this is optional for after the oil change against residue oil flush, once you've done both these things you should have an idea that the inj and lifters are ok, one other thing, I had a Cavalier with a rough idle some yrs ago, a mechanic diagnosed this as the lambda sensor (exhaust probe) being open circuit, I can't confirm though as I traded the car in without fixing it. hth.

THE KICK INSIDE

Thanks for the advice.

Th car is currently with the dealers, with associated vag-com print outs, Pages from the VAG service manual etc....

I hear what you say re injectors/oil i wasn't aware these were hydraulic tappets!

I don't believe diesels have lambda probes (no point with the fuelling regime in a diesel as they dont use a FA mix like a petrol - in effect they always run 'lean' so an o2 probe wouldn't be much use)

I had filled it up with BP ultimate and given it 'an italian tuneup' to se if it made any odds

regards

cheezemonkhai

Not sure if this has been mentioned but they have checked and cleaned the EGR I hope?

If that is full of cack and sticking most dervs will idle like a bag of spanners.

__________________
Cars make CO2 and trees absorb CO2. By driving your car you're feeding a tree and helping the environment.

THE KICK INSIDE

Of course they havent....

I walked in this morning with the vag-com reuslts and tried to explain them to the service manager -who looked blank, i explained that the temp sensor was stable and not throwing codes so not much point wasting there time on that...

The service manager looked a bit taken aback and said ‘ill get the technician’! The technician strolled out looking all cocky….then went very quiet….

After I had explained to him what he was looking at (several times!) He said ok….I better ask the regional support representative…

They had the car all day tested it this morning, ran some injector cleaner through it, tested it this afternoon and have come to the truly astonishing conclusion that 3 of the injectors are out of tolerance! (Strangely the three I pointed out on the vag-com print this morning….).

They are recommending removing the injectors and having them ‘serviced – if they are serviceable’ (as joe public I would have thought a main dealer would know that sort of thing but there you go!).



Strangely they hadn't tried swapping injectors over to see if the issue follows the injector...but then again that takes work....
Anyway at this point is said ‘ ok worst case they aren’t – what will new ones cost?’ - ‘dunno’ – “well can you find out please’ –‘will do’.

Get there to pick it up, they still don’t know how much the injectors cost.


Anyway at least they didn’t try and charge me for today! note i say TRY!!!!

So it looks like they have charged me £200 and wasted 2 and a half of my days.... for nothing more than i in the end had to work out for myself. Nice!


Not finished with them by a long chaulk, but in the mean time anyone know any garages anywhere birmingham-manchester-derby way who might know one end of a TDI from a bag of spanners if they fell over it on a dark night?


I don't mind paying main dealer rates but i expect really on the ball guys for it who KNOW the cars and are cost effective because of it...!

Supurbia

Thats another interesting conclusion, when I got my Superb the Skoda chief mechanic told me not to use inj cleaner as it harms the "cardboard" that Skoda use for a pump and injectors, as this garage has took this action with yours, it means that they either don't know their own product or it is ok to use a treatment, personally I'd say it's ok and Skoda say it isn't to cause the system to clog up so they can three figure steal off you again.

You need to get what you've paid knocked off the final bill, the 1st one of £40 is ok as they had to read it to go any further, but the other monies are a liberty, so I think you should try them out 1st and if they say no go to Skoda about it and be firm and pissed off with them, as they will just try to fob you off.

rotodiesel

Moral of the story: Go to a diesel specialist.

rotodiesel.

THE KICK INSIDE

Well lets say the money WILL be coming back!!

I will let them keep the read fee, though they don't deserve it - for £48 I don't just expect them to read the codes but also to pass an eye over the data blocks....which they only (eventually) did after i pointed out they exist....a night reading this and other forums and i know more than their 'master mechanic' - speaks volumes!

The diesel specialist is being lined up (i hope!)

The only thing i would say to anyone is DON'T buy a skoda, or any other VAG car, the cars may be good (mines great) but the dealer network is a joke....and a car with no dealer backup is pointless

Good product joke dealer network...what a crying shame....I have had to take days of 'well we told you not to buy a skoda', 'why do skoda's have heated rear windows' etc at work...

Skoda UK are supposed to have been coming back to me about something else 'within 3 working days' - that's 5 days ago...they are as pointless as their dealers!

Once mine sorted I will be trading it in and leaving VAG for good and going back to Volvo whose product has (sadly) slipped (that's ford for you!) but the dealers are fabulous by comparison! Before this is was considering the new superb L&K - now not a chance....rather have a worse product with better backup - mind you when deisel injectors are stuffed after 34000 miles you have to wonder about the product! (my other diesels done 80k and the injectors are just bedding in - Japanese quality for you i guess!)

How DO skoda uk expect to sell cars with this shoddy dealer structure ? Its beyond me!!! (and i really hope someone from skoda uk reads this...they need to!)

THE KICK INSIDE

oh btw fuel injector leaner must be ok cos the dealer did that today!!!!

Supurbia

I'll be joining you some time in May, gotta get a bit more money out of it, then it will be cambelt time so thats £450 I can swallow, I need gaiters as they are dry and cracking so there's another £100, I'm not prepared to hang around for the auto box to fail, but I know it will, my mates had his done at 90k so there's another £1800, so if anyone wants an 04 Comfort 1.9 TDi auto for 6k pm me nearer the time.

THE KICK INSIDE

Cant even do that now...I have a vehicle that is unsaleable and probably unsafe!

Took it for a run (to look at trading it in) at 20 miles ASP light is blinking on and off....then the check engine light comes on as well (emissions) its says.....both lights then on constant

Both still on constant now (although the asp light disappears temporarily if turn the ignition off and back on)

oh and the idiot dealer hadn't tightened the feed pipe to the filter (presumably they had it off to 'run injector cleaner through it)' so i had to sort that out before i could even set off...and clear the diesel up!

Perhaps the emissions stuff is related to the injector cleaner - i would suggest NO ONE uses injector cleaner as it seem a bit of a co-incidence!

I am totally and utterly demoralised by the the whole situation i cant even get rid of the thing in this state....I would say to you all - the moment the warranty runs out GET RID you simply cannot afford not to!

As I don't believe the dealers are capable of (or interested in) sorting this out, or supporting ANY superb. Skoda don't even get back to you other than to promise to do so within 3 days and then don't! So much for 'making happy drivers'- they need to realise its more than a sloggan - they need to look at Volvo!!!

Prepare to see one very very cheap superb on EBAY shortly in need of work (with the full story! - may as well at least get some satisfaction out of it) - i think this will end up costing me about £5000 btw in lost value. I know that should do a lot of work at the dealer but I really truely believe they are barely capable of changing the oil let alone sorting this sort of thing out.

It is a a shame because the superb is a cracking car, but i will never ever buy another VAG product.......

Incredibly let down by the dealer and SODA for appointing them (and from what i hear its pretty typical!) going to go and arrange for a hire car now before getting very very drunk!

Supurbia

Mug it into a dealer, it's what they do to us anyway, so you shouldn't feel bad about doing so, they will look around it and give a value, the night before PXing it take the battery lead off overnight to wipe any fault codes, then if you get challenged later you can say it only did it on the way to the garage and it went away with a restart so I thought it just a glitch.

Never worry about the dealer, I worked for loads of em yrs ago, and they will all have yer pants down given the chance.

cheezemonkhai

Either that or go into the dealer and drag them over the coals over the injector cleaner when your car's manual says not to use it.

Don't suppose the ASR could be derv spilt over the ABS sensor on the front wheel?

__________________
Cars make CO2 and trees absorb CO2. By driving your car you're feeding a tree and helping the environment.

THE KICK INSIDE

Puled the codes, turns out the ESP module will spit its dummy due to fault being recorded by the engine ecu - if it cant be certain the torque the engine is producing it shuts down......there's one for the faq!!!!

teh engine ecu is saying its got a commencement of injection issue - guess what timing the dealer was...'correcting' on monday....because it was 14 degrees out...(aghmmmm)

the GOOD news is skoda uk are picking up the parts bill on new injectors....as 'goodwill'....

here the weird thing i washed the car and the check engine light disappeared (i kid you not) i thought power wash the wheels to see if was a wheel sensor covered in cack....and the engine light reset itself...

its going going going - im not having a car that spits its ecu dummy over being

THE KICK INSIDE

Getting like a a good news...bad news....story..

the dealer has the car, skoda are involved....we know what it is.....we can rebuild it...etc...

but they cant supply the parts (3 * injectors), or rather they cant say when..combing europe etc.... the question of 'when' results in shrugged shoulders from Skoda UK, so if it was 2 weeks old and an injector failed you would be in exactly the same position - not a great reason to buy a skoda is it?

By comparison i can get everything for my wife Japanese grey import (never imported into the uk) within 2 days from their main dealer - no worries -....and i would say the parts are cheaper too! (wont mention that's done 80k on its injectors...)

now i would point out this is for a car still in production with an engine still in production......god help anyone with this model when they bring the new model out!

For the record i would point out this is a main dealer supplied car, main dealer serviced with 34,000 miles on it...

Shocking doesn't even begin to cover it.......i will shortly be suggesting they should buy it back from me as they misrepresented the goods and support that would be available hen they promoted it....we will wait and see

Supurbia

My mate had the same issues over an alternator, 3 weeks it took to supply one.

Jenks

Sorry to hear of your problems. I don't think you named the Dealership that gave you such a crappy service. Could be useful to mention dealers who give bad service or good service come to that.

Jenks

Supurbia

I don't think it's always the dealers fault myself, I think half of their actions are caused by Skoda UK myself.

THE KICK INSIDE

I think this is 90/10 the dealer/skoda uk.

The dealer has totally failed to diagnose the issue (I have had to lead them by the nose and im not exactly a mechanic!) - im STILL to be convinced its not the pump and have raised that with the dealer and they say they have raised it with skoda technical (but then again the mechanic also told me skoda technical told him that injector 2 has the lift sensor on - but in fact its injector 3!)....apparently the pumps area common failure but then the car wont start............(isn't that nice to know!)

The first week and a half of misdiagnosis, emmisions test done with oil at 12 degree's c etc etc were all down to the dealer.

The dealer was quite happy for me to pay for ALL the work, and i had no sense that they were 'taking my cause' to the manufacturer - but once i got skoda uk involved it turns out they will pay for (some) of it AND everything picked up pace. Skoda uk are ringing me daily and are pretty hacked off the dealer hasnt provided my a courtesy car!

My only beef with skoda uk is that they build cars where injectors die after 34k, they cant supply replacements for 4 days and they let dealers operate giving such crappy service - oh man would i like to be a ''mystery customer' for them!


If its ever sorted its will be going as i don't trust the rest of the car OR the backup any more and i wont be buying VAG again (expensive lesson learned!). If i don't have it back tomorrow (as promised) I will have to consider other avenues..... which is one reason im NOT naming the dealer yet!

What they don't 'get' is i will also tell ALL my friends/family/colleagues, who in turn will tell other people etc....and they may loose HUGE amounts of business just by messing one customer about....dumb business sense if you ask me ....if they carry on this way in 5 years skoda will again be a household joke! (why do they have heated rearwindows - to keep your hands warm when you push them!) - my dads rapide was FAR les bother AND you could fix it with a paper clip and the dealer was at least INTERESTED....

RANTOVER!!!!

rotodiesel

I'm afraid that VAG UK's business model factors-in hacked off customers like you.

My perception of their operation is that margins on vehicle sales are fairly tight and VAG new-policy glass palace overheads are considerable. Gone are the days of honest dealers trading out of tin sheds. How do you make money then?

Money is made by clever warranty "exclusions" such as brakes, the exploitation of buyers' ignorance (eg. recalls) and the employment by the dealers of the cheapest possible labour. All of this adds up to lousy service to the customer and considerable costs if you are fool enough to stay with a VAG dealer for "service". Their documentation is a joke, so getting things right (eg. oil for PD engines) is a bit of a mental exercise.

It's a pity, because apart from some very well known and documented design faults which VAG have not bothered to correct (eg. rainwater ingress), the cars aren't bad. The 4 cylinder 1.9 diesels are good, the bodies galvanised and Skoda's standard of assembly (on my car at least) is excellent.

So, VAG UK's business model definitely does not meet my requirements. Goodbye, when I've finished with my Superb.

rotodiesel.

Supurbia

My mate's latest addition to it's Pete Tong list is the auto box is shot again, that's two re-builds in as many months, add the alternator pulley shearing off, this is @ 90k, one of the reasons I got mine was because I read so many 170k posts without fault and was confident I was buying a really reliable low maintenance car, but now I'm counting down the days to when it becomes PXable, and it's not that I don't want the car cos I do love the thing, it's just I need a car that runs good and repairs quick when it's required, when GM don't have an item in stock I know I can order it midday and get it the next day even if it's had to come from Germany 99% of the time, only time it lets me down is when there is a mass failure like VW had with the ign coils.

I really wanted this car to be all that, and maybe she will turn out to be all that, but right now it reads, long wait for parts that should be stock items, dealers who have no more idea than me, I may even have a swallow on it soon just in case.

THE KICK INSIDE

You hit the nail on the head - even if you exclude the appalling dealer (which could be just bad luck!) lets just look at the facts...

1. car is current in production
2. fault is VOR (vehicle off road)
3. fault is with injectors which are ,after all service items witha projected life of 100,000 miles
4. engine is used in other models in the vw groups
5. it takes 5 days to get parts into the engine bay of the car...

wind that back....my motorbike that hasn't been made for 12 years honda can supply literally everything for within 2 days - even from japan -0 that includes essoteric bits i needed when i did an engine rebuild (like big end shells)

my wifes car which is an import NEVER shipped into this country - and not currently in productuion - and Mitsi an supply a clip for the window (not used on any vehicle in this country btw) in 3 days - cam chain tensioner gasket off the shelf....i even got a brake calliper delivered next day (14 hours from phone call!) to a camp site in cornwall...now THATS service!!!

Now brake caliper vs injector would be pretty similar items imho, service items but failure at 100,000 miles expected....

seems to me the much vaunted vw reliability/service/ parts availability is crock of something brown and smelly....buy japanese or merc seems to be the way of things...been to look at mercs today....least the dealer wanted to talk to me AND they will offer me a service + contract for £xx per month they cover EVERYTHING except tyres (bulb blows you just call into any dealer and they change it no charge....engine blows...pick it up next Wednesday sir.....AND it includes all your services!!! ps its not actually that expensive either!)

sidewaze samm

Must admit I'm starting to feel the same way - not so much what is wrong with the car, which really is little more than a few niggles, but the apparent standard of servicing/knowledge from the stealer. (Though they did get an alternator for the next day). Water ingress? - no problems (yet), but my Octy had n/s/r footwell and bootful, and the Toledo before that was soaking in both n/s footwells (3rd time lucky?)
I like the car - the level of spec, and the ride comfort and rear legroom provided by the long wheelbase, but will I stick with it and maybe get another? Jury's still out on that one, especially because of the posts I've read about the particulate filter on the 2.0 engine. Anybody any experience of the Chrysler 300C 3.0 diesel? - Space, spec, Merc chassis, not too dear... hmm.