track pads

[vRSy]

Right my brakes are pants and not upto the job at the nurburgring.

So.... as a tempory solution before a big brake upgrade, would OEM discs and DS2500 pads, braided hoses, and dot 5.1 fluid hold up to at least between 5-10 laps each time that i visit the ring(at least once a month)

Im not bothered if they dont last to long. I just want the fade and vibrations to be gone.

Or would i maybe need o go to a higher spec pad. It will be used as a road pad as well though.

[encephalopathy]

My Golf Project - Page 14 - Overclockers UK Forums

read further down the page for pics and info re track pads

this (if you have the time) is one of the best ever project threads i have read (1.8 20v t into a vw golf mkII)

[faboka vrs]

Are braided hoses needed? Not normally a mod on the mk1. Ds2500 with super dot 4.

[vRSy]

With stainless hoses it should get rid of spongeness in the brake pedal caused by the rubber hoses. But pads and fluid upgrade is a must.

[vRSy]

I need a brake Pad that has a decent bite from cold, but that can stand upto at least 10 laps of the nurburgring without brake fade ruining the day. They will be combined with OEM discs, braided hoses and Super DOT 4 or Dot 5.1 fluid(not sure which yet)

So far ive looked up :

Ferrodo DS2500

Ebc yellowstuff

Hawk HP Plus

Would appreciate your reccomendations or other options available

[KenONeill]

You want a fast road or sprint pad. If you do several laps of the 'ring non-stop they will fade a bit, but better that than a race pad that never gets hot enough to bite in road driving.

Of those 3 you list, I'd go with the Ferodo, but I've never heard of the Hawks! I'd steer clear of EBC because they're famous for crumbling, and/or warping discs! And don't just take my word for it; ask the folk at Awesome.

[vRSy]

ferrodos seem to always pop up trumps on this site, but the hawk pads are extremly popular with the GTI forums.

Didnt know that about ebc, will steer clear of them

[Decron]

With stainless hoses it should get rid of spongeness in the brake pedal caused by the rubber hoses. But pads and fluid upgrade is a must.

Your hoses are re-enforced anyway, there will be little or no difference between these and braided hoses.

[vRSy]

Are you sure. reading through other forums they are highly reccomended on the Fr and GTI as a worthwhile mod for feel, and stopping spongy brakes.

if they are reinforced would they be as resistant as braided hoses to the heat. IMO doubt they would.

[KenONeill]

Standard brake hoses are usually rubber armoured. They might have the same expansion resistance as braided stainless when brand new; they do not have the same resistance when 2 or 3 years old. That's apart from stainless hoses helping to dissipate heat in the brake fluid, by not having a load of rubber insulation on them!

[cheezemonkhai]

Are you sure. reading through other forums they are highly reccomended on the Fr and GTI as a worthwhile mod for feel, and stopping spongy brakes.

if they are reinforced would they be as resistant as braided hoses to the heat. IMO doubt they would.

They are already reinforced on most cars these days, often with kevlar fibres to prevent total failure should they be cut by debris etc.

[davidsheeran]

I dont see how changing the pads alone can reduce brake fade - if you still have the standard discs on then your system still has the same thermal capacity i.e. the rate at which it can convert kinetic to thermal energy is a function of the disc physical properties which have not been changed.

Obviously you can improve pedal feel etc but where is my logic wrong? In terms of outright performance surely the disc is the limiting factor?

[KenONeill]

It's quite simple; the chemical compound that the pads are made of is different, and more stable at higher temperatures.

It's not that you can dissipate more heat in the brakes, but that your pads can get hotter before they start melting and gassing.

[Decron]

That's apart from stainless hoses helping to dissipate heat in the brake fluid, by not having a load of rubber insulation on them!

I think thats generally the only advantage (Heat dissapation). The reenforcement is an internal metal braid which means that the hoses shouldn't compress or expand. I doubt that they are quite as effective as full SS braided but I doubt either of us will tell the difference.

[vRSy]

well thats not good then. if the hoses are really that reinforced, then the long pedal travel and sponginess must have been boiled brake fluid then:eek::eek:

[Decron]

well thats not good then. if the hoses are really that reinforced, then the long pedal travel and sponginess must have been boiled brake fluid then:eek::eek:

If you have done a few laps then yeah. There is no give in the hoses or very little

I could total boil my VRS (Fabia) brakes in 4 laps of Castle Combe (You would get a hell of a lot of vibration and lots of pedal travel) until I changed to 5.1 and the right pads (Mintex Extreme BTW) then they would go for ever in fact they would get that hot the paint would peel from the calipers but they would still work.

[vRSy]

Vibration cos of heat??????I didnt think it would cause that. I had vibration and feedback through the wheel from hgh speed braking but kinda thought the discs must have warped

[dc14]

maybe check out the mintex m114 fast roads from jabba??

[Decron]

Vibration cos of heat??????I didnt think it would cause that. I had vibration and feedback through the wheel from hgh speed braking but kinda thought the discs must have warped

Yep. Did it go after you left them for a bit?

[Octavia Vrs!]

I have run Hawk HP plus plads at the Nurburgring and they are a fantastic high performance/race compound. However they do EAT DISCS and acid wheel cleaner will become your best freind. It depends how far you want to go .

Personally I found heat to be the biggest enemy and the only way to get rid of that is to go BIG on discs and caliper size. Braided hoses will also help.

Edited 7 April, 2009 by Octavia Vrs!

[vRSy]

Yep. Did it go after you left them for a bit?

yes but i stopped maxing out on the straights instead chilled out at 110mph ish and concentrated on the bends as i couldnt be bothered waiting an hour betwee laps.

Was thinking maybe you could take the dust shield off the back of the brakes. I bet that wwould cool the brakes a lot quicker

[Octavia Vrs!]

However the set-up you list in your first post should be up to the job if you look after them.

Most important is to ease off at the final gantry and coast down the remaining straight to the pits, Take as long as you can - your discs will cool whilst the wheels are turning. Quite often there is a que to enter the pits. DO NOT sit stationary with the brakes on. (as you'll know the pit entrance slopes backwards which is a real pain in the ****.)

By keeping a good distance between you and the car infront you can hopefully avoid touching the brakes but if you have to stop drive the car forward a bit and stop, forward and stop or let it roll back abit and stop again. Holding the brakes on will boil the fluid in seconds, also risks warping the brake discs or at best it might cause material transfer from the pads to the discs which gives the feeling of a warped disc anyway.

Get it in the carpack, turn the engine off and leave in gear with the handbrake OFF.

Best thing with big brake kits is going out on consecutive laps whilst your mates brakes are smoking

[Decron]

yes but i stopped maxing out on the straights instead chilled out at 110mph ish and concentrated on the bends as i couldnt be bothered waiting an hour betwee laps.

Was thinking maybe you could take the dust shield off the back of the brakes. I bet that wwould cool the brakes a lot quicker

Maybe, take a look on the golf forums to see if there are any tips. The fact the vibration went away should tell you that they overheated and it will help a lot if you changed to 5.1 or super 4 fluid

[vRSy]

will ds2500s need bedding in in a specific way or is it just like normal pads,

[Octavia Vrs!]

Yes they do have a bed in procedure. Seem to remember it being a couple of low speed applications without actually coming to a stop, imediately followed by mid speed then higher speed aplications followed by a complete cool down. Each time apart from at the end not coming to a complete stop. Not 100 percent but any instructions come with the pads so be sure to check.

I wouldn't worry to much about that to be honest. If you put new discs on i'd bed them in with gentle braking first then perform the bedding in prodecure. DS2500's are not axactly a race pad so will be fine.

When I fitted my big brake upgrade the company told me to bed the rotors in first then follow pad bedding in procedure a few days later anyway.