Honest Johns take on ESP problems

[Rhoobarb]

Done the watchdog thing, drop in the ocean maybe, but worth a try.

[Hauptmann]

I have posted before on this matter, but here is my take on again (as an ex-motor trader) with a useful link:

First of all, if the car is out of warranty then forget about 'goodwill' from SUK - if fact don't even bother contacting SUK - they are there to support their dealer network interests.

You need to go after the selling dealer and quote the Sale of Goods Act at them.

Refer to this document (which is what we used as dealers):

http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf

Look at Pages 6 & 7.

Essentiially if there car is less than 6 years old and has an defect (inherent or latent) which existed at the time of sale (which is the case with the Mk60) - then there is a clear cut case.

You have ample evidence of the poor quality of these units - certainly enough to convince a SCC.

Remember, a car with 30k on the clock has only operated for about 1000 hours (assuming an average driving speed of 30mph). One would expect any product to operate defect-free for at least 1000 hours. Even a 50p lightbulb operates for 1000 hours.

[uncle bulgaria]

Worth contacting the journalist who's pushing this: Click Here ?

[cheshire_cat]

Worth contacting the journalist who's pushing this: Click Here ?

I doubt it, despite not having yet being affected, I have written TWICE, once in response to a piece on upcoming EU reqirement for esp and once to the motoring section. One out of office reply and a big fat zero the second time, they're more interested chasing some one's BMW paint work getting ruined by bird muck rather than important stuff. If they don't like the last remark let them do some thing!!!!!!!!! I guess some one could try ringing to see if you get a real person. (Autoexpress long time subscriber)

[Micky 32]

Does anyone know if part number 1K0 614 517 AF has failed yet? Fitted to a vRS that was built in March 2008.

[ostberry]

RE ABS &ESP FAILURE - I paraphrase from an article from a Scottish Paper THE SUNDAY POST dated 19 september 2010 which is written in their consumer page "Raw Deal"

£1350 BILL WHEN HIS CAR'S ABS WARNING LIGHTS TURNED RED In March 2006 a guy from Endmoor, near Kendal,bought a new Skoda Octavia 4x4 estate.In July this year he noticed the ABS & ESP warning lights were on. He took the car to a Skoda garage in Morcambe which said he needed a new ABS pump and control unit at a cost of £1350 parts and fitting. Worse,he'd have to pay in full as the original 3 yr manufacturer's warranty had expired in march last year.The car owner dug around on the internet and found it was a common fault on Octavias built after 2004.He also found out that Audi and VW owners were having their faulty ABS pumps replace free. So why not Skoda owners? He asked Skoda's UK customer service team, they offered a 25% discount on the repair as a gesture of goodwill. After further discussions, they upped that to 35% - but that would still leave him a bill for £877.After writing to Skoda UK's chief executive without getting a reply he emailed Raw Deal. ([email protected]) The paper contacted Skoda who then agreed to cover the cost of the parts and half the labour costs . That brought the bill down to just £67.Better still.because he's paying for some of the work, it'salso guaranteed for two years. A spokeswoman for Skoda said,Our customers are very important to us and we want them to be satisfied with their car. We have a discretionary goodwill policy which means our dealers are able to work with us or independently decide what they can do to help in each case.. This owner is clearly loyal to the brand and the cost of the repairs were quite high so, after hearing from Raw Deal, we decided to increase our contribution. End of article.! Sorry this is so long, Just shows that it pays to be persistant. Hope this is helpful to anyone in a similar situation.

[cheezemonkhai]

They might have that policy, but they also have legal obligations.

[Aspman]

It might be worth referencing the story if you have any contact with SUK. Obviously the paper would be delighted if this became a larger issues for them to 'solve'.

I have previously had problems resolved more quickly just with the threat of Rawdeal @ the Sunday Post even if it went nowhere.

I'll certainly do it if it happens to me, now that my car is in the danger age.

[Edit]

Might be handy if Ostberry could scan a copy of the article.

Edited 28 September, 2010 by Aspman

[darrenw]

They might have that policy, but they also have legal obligations.

And that statement in the article might be a bit hard to wriggle out of in court...

[Pud]

Does anyone know if part number 1K0 614 517 AF has failed yet? Fitted to a vRS that was built in March 2008.

[Pud]

Just checked mine, a 2008 model 2.0tdi 4X4, and the part number apppears to be 1KO 614 517 AD. Does anybody know for certain which part No. is affected by this problem?

[bond007]

we've only supplied one of those part numbers this year back in march, but have quoted on at least another two since then and they are only the quotes that have been logged so chances are there are a few more

[scouter2]

Here is the article kindly sent to me by Bev:

[A3peter]

I have posted before on this matter, but here is my take on again (as an ex-motor trader) with a useful link:

First of all, if the car is out of warranty then forget about 'goodwill' from SUK - if fact don't even bother contacting SUK - they are there to support their dealer network interests.

You need to go after the selling dealer and quote the Sale of Goods Act at them.

Refer to this document (which is what we used as dealers):

http://www.bis.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf

Look at Pages 6 & 7.

Essentiially if there car is less than 6 years old and has an defect (inherent or latent) which existed at the time of sale (which is the case with the Mk60) - then there is a clear cut case.

You have ample evidence of the poor quality of these units - certainly enough to convince a SCC.

Remember, a car with 30k on the clock has only operated for about 1000 hours (assuming an average driving speed of 30mph). One would expect any product to operate defect-free for at least 1000 hours. Even a 50p lightbulb operates for 1000 hours.

[A3peter]

Thanks for the info. - really helpful - however have sent a letter along your recommended lines and it has still been rejected on the grounds that: manufacturer's warranty has expired / no obligation to repair / took vehicle elsewhere (they had said they could not deal with it for at least a week) / if my vehicle had been ' identified as being potentially affected by a known issue, it would have been rourinely recalled'.

Am seriously considering SCC and reading up to prepare - was hoping to use Freedom of Info. Act to get statistics on the occurrences, but it only covers Public Organisations. I need to get evidence from sources that court will accept - any recommendations ???

[cheezemonkhai]

Thanks for the info. - really helpful - however have sent a letter along your recommended lines and it has still been rejected on the grounds that: manufacturer's warranty has expired / no obligation to repair / took vehicle elsewhere (they had said they could not deal with it for at least a week) / if my vehicle had been ' identified as being potentially affected by a known issue, it would have been rourinely recalled'.

Am seriously considering SCC and reading up to prepare - was hoping to use Freedom of Info. Act to get statistics on the occurrences, but it only covers Public Organisations. I need to get evidence from sources that court will accept - any recommendations ???

Just examples of other cases of it failing in skodas and other brands of car. The fact that Audi drivers get a repair for free etc etc.

If you can find a TSB on it even better.

I'd certainly be going to an SCC for it if it was my car.

Edited 1 October, 2010 by cheezemonkhai

[blueR36]

I wonder if the BMW recall is for the Teeves 60 ?

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/pa/uknews/2010/10/01/bmw-recalls-cars-amid-brakes-fears.html?lpos=tat-links-1-news_pa&lid=tat-links-1-bmwrecallscarsamidbrakesfears

[Rhoobarb]

A leak may develop in the power braking system of the affected cars, potentially causing a vacuum loss and consequent reduction of power braking assistance, according to a statement from the company.

Doesnt sound like the same issue. Rolls Royce are affected by the BMW problem too and havent heard any Rolls' having the Teves issue. You never know though....

Regarding the Teves though, is there not one Skoda employee on here who could give us a bit of anonymous insider info on this?

Edited 1 October, 2010 by Rhoobarb

[xman]

The BMW thing is a leak in the vacuum system - possibly along the lines of those suffered recently by Fabia 1.2Tsi owners (see forum) where it seems a hoselock type connector on the inlet manifold?? has not been correctly inserted. (May also affect Octavia 1.2Tsi models)

[A3peter]

My Audi A3 had the ESP light problem and I eventually got it repaired at an 'Audi/Volkswagen Specialist' garage - not realising that they were not a main dealer. The main dealer had said that he could not fit my car in for work for about a week. After realising how common the problem is, I have been trying to get a contribution from the dealer from whom I bought the car new in April 2006. Have got to the Small Claims stage now and his main defence is that 'the recorded mlieage of 28,000 is clear evidence that the vehicle has functioned properly for a reasonable length of time and is of satisfactory quality and is fit for purpose'. I have got it in black and white - honest !!! Where can I publish that statement to make him regret it ??? The car has been serviced by the main dealer and never been jump started - which is another of his defence allegations to muddy the waters.

[Photographersforyou]

If I undersood corectly, the new 2010 Octavias for shure don't have this problem? (as I ordered one in february)

Tomson did you have esp added as an optional extra ?

OR Can anyone tell me if any new skoda octavia's with the added optional extra for ESP (£390 I think from manufacturer) has the same faulty unit.? or have they been changed.

(I also noticed that the manuals pre 09' has a button for "Esp Off" where as the newer manuals have a car skid shape button - I dont know if this is relevant.)

Any advice would be great, thanks.

Edited 30 December, 2011 by Photographersforyou

[FIBAMAN]

Can anyone indicate what time period this problem covers?

Mine registered in Dec 10, but I dont know when it was built or when the faulty units were phased out.

[chr1staylor]

Iirc units were updated in 08 to the Mk70 which doesn't have the same issue. No new cars should be affected.

[Photographersforyou]

Iirc units were updated in 08 to the Mk70 which doesn't have the same issue. No new cars should be affected.

Does that include if you order for example a standard skoda octavia (elegance for example)?

I thought that the mk70 unit was without the optional extra added ESP(under £400) as this then becomes a mk60 unit or hopefully a revised non problematic unit maybe a Bosch or something. Or have i got something incorrect here ?

Any further info on if any new skoda octavia's with the added optional extra for ESP (from manufacturer) has the same faulty unit.? or have they been changed.

[pastiche]

Intresting thread which have read all your comments.I could not afford this if mine goes so what the heck Ive driven 50 odd years without ABS and been "lucky" (experianced)not to get to the stage where abs would save an accident.First car with abs was a Nissan in 1990 and still do not rely on it.