Fabia 1.6 CR TDI 90bhp appalling fuel consumption

[Guest]

Absolutely right xman. My inkjet printer actually monitors it's ink cartridge levels based upon pages printed. When a new ink cartridge it loaded is zero's the software count. Then measures each page printed on a estimated 5%-10% coverage rate for black ink and a bit more for colour to account for printing grahics etc. It then tells my computer an estimate of how much ink is in the cartridges based upon the page count ink usage, but also adds a little message that 'actual ink levels may vary'. In other words, it doesn't have anyway of knowing how much actual ink is being used. That's in direct contrast to how our cars trip fuel comps work.

Nicely put by the way, that stuff about the ecu.

Edited 21 December, 2010 by Estate Man

[percymon]

Absolutely right xman. My inkjet printer actually monitors it's ink cartridge levels based upon pages printed. When a new ink cartridge it loaded is zero's the software count. Then measures each page printed on a estimated 5%-10% coverage rate for black ink and a bit more for colour to account for printing grahics etc. It then tells my computer an estimate of how much ink is in the cartridges based upon the page count ink usage, but also adds a little message that 'actual ink levels may vary'. In other words, it doesn't have anyway of knowing how much actual ink is being used. That's in direct contrast to how our cars trip fuel comps work.

Nicely put by the way, that stuff about the ecu.

An update from me as a Golf 1.6TDI 105 owner as promised..

Car now a year old and 20k miles on the clock

Just had second service, asked about fuel economy,ecu update and there isn't one (not for the 105bhp engine from VW at least)

I also asked about an unofficial service bulletin about replacing the high pressure fuel pump (one Golf owner of same age has mine has had this done despite no complaints about his car), and again nothing related to my car and no acceptance there was a service bulletin.

My mpg has improved steadily over the last few tank fills - which i'm putting down to the use of winter tyres (195/65/15) which presumable have less rolling resistance, or drag or fractionally favourable overall diameter compared to my summer 225/45/17 Bridgrestones.

By keeping to 65mph on the cruise control (62mph on gps) for the majority of my 27 mile commute (90% dual carriageway) - i can get 60mpg on the commute repeatedly. In these colder days i'm more than happy to tootle along, although in the drier summer months its going to be a bit laborious. Past experience tells me driving at 75-80 costs me 7mpg on the commute so overall its a reasonable sacrifice in the colder months.

I removed the tuning box for the service, the trip computer now reads somewhere near my calculated eonomy again. I've left the tuning box off at present due to the bad weather and its more aggressive fuel map.

I can't honestly say my economy changed much from day one - i did longer quite A run journeys originally and at times i saw 70+mpg (without the tuning box), and that was driving miss daisy style, but i drove in a normal manner then 53-55 was the norm with summer wheels.

I know people compare to other cars - i doubt the kerb weight of the Golf is much different to a Passat, and a Fabia II won't be far behind these days - the lack of inbuilt torque and the greater reliance ont he turbo assistance of the 1.6 engines is what kills the mpg in my opinion. If you want to drive at 80-85mph on the nmotorway expect 45-48mpg, if you want 60+ then drive slower !!

[FABTPM]

I'm new to the forum and have been reading many of the topics especially to do with MPG and the new CR engines. I bought a Fabia 1.6 CR 105bhp six months ago, having previously had an Octavia 1.9. I was very impressed by the fuel consumption of my Octavia, typically giving 55-70 mpg. However, the Fabia struggles to reach 55 mpg even on long runs. Not only is the MPG poor but the car also shakes whilst the DPF is being regenerated. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this?

The car has now covered over 5000 miles and the MPG is not showing any signs of improving. The dealer says that the official MPG figures are not Skodas. Therefore I can understand other peoples frustration when their car does not deliver what's expected.

[xman]

The dealer says that the official MPG figures are not Skodas.

So who's are they? :peek: Ferrari's?

I too am thoroughly fed up with my 18 month old Fabia 2. (Its a 1.2 12V 70bhp petrol ) - Since day one its only returned an average of around 35mpg - it has not shown any significant sign of improving - I've tried running it on Tesco Momentum 99 - no difference. I've tried everything from driving like an ECO warrior (35mpg) to driving like an 18yr old hormone crazed nutter (less than 30mpg!). IT CANT EVEN MANAGE THE URBAN FIGURE. If it doesn't improve in the spring then I'm getting shut of it.

My sons Fabia Mk1 (1.2 12v comfort) - which I previously owned, returns between 40 (town) and 55mpg (long distance a/b roads).

I have the ludicrous situation where my 2 tonne Alhambra returns an average of 50+ mpg (and its a lot nicer to drive too).

[MikeHart]

A tyre on the road does not simply roll as you might expect. Basically its because at the road/tread level there are lots of push pull dynamics in 3d. It varies with speed, road surface, tyre composition/tread/wear, power being transmitted or dissipated (braking), and much much more and can account for +/- 3% in readings. Try this experiment, compare GPS measured speed against your speedo when driving up a steep hill with power applied, then repeat going down the hill on brakes.

The ECU is part of a closed loop control system, it does not need or indeed have accurate rate information from the injectors. A trip computer (which is a bit of extra software in the ECU) is calibrated in the factory on a production line(i.e. quickly). I've read you can trim it further with VAGCOM if you want to try and improve its accuracy as you can the speedo etc.

A bubble jet or inkjet printer head has no resemblance whatsoever to a car diesel fuel injector - the technologies aren't in the slightest similar. Resolution and accuracy are two totally different things and are not related.

The "learning" ECU (self calibration) is over egged. ECUs use adaptive algorithms to ensure transducer readings and control loop parameters stay within range. 90% of the "learning" is done in a few miles. It then does small adjustments when it see drifts in parameters caused by transducer aging etc. Some engine ECU can dynamically calibrate (balance) injectors by looking at the instantaneous changes in rpm (we would call it vibration or shudder) between injections.

It doesn't learn your driving style - that may however be the case for an auto gearbox ecu.

Hello,

You say the ECU doesn't need to know or have accurate rate information from the injectors. I thought the ECUs were supposed to vary the amount of fuel injected according to conditions and change timing etc. to make the engine as efficient as possible. Does your comment suggest the engine injects the same amount according to the throttle position at all times?

[MikeHart]

I'm new to the forum and have been reading many of the topics especially to do with MPG and the new CR engines. I bought a Fabia 1.6 CR 105bhp six months ago, having previously had an Octavia 1.9. I was very impressed by the fuel consumption of my Octavia, typically giving 55-70 mpg. However, the Fabia struggles to reach 55 mpg even on long runs. Not only is the MPG poor but the car also shakes whilst the DPF is being regenerated. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this?

The car has now covered over 5000 miles and the MPG is not showing any signs of improving. The dealer says that the official MPG figures are not Skodas. Therefore I can understand other peoples frustration when their car does not deliver what's expected.

Hello,

What you say sounds exactly like my situation. The mpg is nothing like their claims. All Skoda ever says is it'll come. Strange thing is, some people seem to get good economy, whereas others get very poor for no apparent reason. No matter what people do, they don't seem to be able to get their mpg up if it's poor to start with. I know people talk about the superb build quality and engineering of VW engines, but it sounds very like variable build quality to me. Some work out good, whereas others don't and never perform well.

As to the shaking of the DPF regen, yes I get that too. Basically, if the regen starts and then you slow considerably, especially to tickover, the engine becomes very shaky, vibrates the car, sounds like it's going to stall all the time and basically is just plain unpleasant. At speed, you don't get the same problem. Presumably, it's something to do with the different engine tuning etc. run during regen to try and keep the temperature high in the DPF. Either way, it's very disturbing and not nice. You don't say if you've asked Skoda, but when I pointed it out, they didn't want to know.

Thanks,

Mike

[MikeHart]

So who's are they? :peek: Ferrari's?

I too am thoroughly fed up with my 18 month old Fabia 2. (Its a 1.2 12V 70bhp petrol ) - Since day one its only returned an average of around 35mpg - it has not shown any significant sign of improving - I've tried running it on Tesco Momentum 99 - no difference. I've tried everything from driving like an ECO warrior (35mpg) to driving like an 18yr old hormone crazed nutter (less than 30mpg!). IT CANT EVEN MANAGE THE URBAN FIGURE. If it doesn't improve in the spring then I'm getting shut of it.

My sons Fabia Mk1 (1.2 12v comfort) - which I previously owned, returns between 40 (town) and 55mpg (long distance a/b roads).

I have the ludicrous situation where my 2 tonne Alhambra returns an average of 50+ mpg (and its a lot nicer to drive too).

Xman, you're in exactly my position. While my Fabia diesel manages low 50's (51/52), my wifes Ford Galaxy (2006) can achieve that on the same run and on long motorway runs (70-80mph) can even get higher. In fact, at 70-80mph, I reckon it does 60mpg. I regularly get 55mpg and better on journeys from the south coast to Nottingham and that's not all motorway cruising. Long sections yes, but sections of slower in between and some country roads.

Personally, I believe the missing 6th gear can't help the situation, but I'm sure it's more than that. Either way, it's a great disappointment at the moment and Skodas name must be taking a tumble looking at the number of people talking about this.

Mike

[xman]

Hello,

You say the ECU doesn't need to know or have accurate rate information from the injectors. I thought the ECUs were supposed to vary the amount of fuel injected according to conditions and change timing etc. to make the engine as efficient as possible. Does your comment suggest the engine injects the same amount according to the throttle position at all times?

no mike,

Modern engines are closed loop systems.

You would need to go to college for a while to understand control theory, the maths behind such systems. Engine injectors do not have to be accurately calibrated as the engine ECU uses feedback from the numerous engine sensors. In fact injector characteristics vary considerably in service due to temperature,age, fuel pressures, contamination (internal and external),even the fuel used.

Without closed loop control, your car would have to be tuned every service (or more) as was the case with old fashioned carburetor technology.

Edited 25 December, 2010 by xman

[xman]

I know people talk about the superb build quality and engineering of VW engines, but it sounds very like variable build quality to me. Some work out good, whereas others don't and never perform well.

My engine is installed at a pronounced angle (i.e. offside to nearside) - others I've looked at are installed horizontally. This question of engine tilt was raised many moons ago in a previous thread but the only conclusion seemed to be it was variable.

I've been in 1.4pd fabias that are as smooth as silk, and others that sound like clapped out tractors.

I wonder if installation consistency in the engine/gearbox bay is a problem?

Edited 25 December, 2010 by xman

[Guest]

Personally, I believe the missing 6th gear can't help the situation, but I'm sure it's more than that. Either way, it's a great disappointment at the moment and Skodas name must be taking a tumble looking at the number of people talking about this.

Mike

Hi Mike, I think this is the point...98% of Skoda CR1.6 owners and VW owners are not experiencing any problems whatsoever in spite of what we may read on this site or the VW one. In reality,even on this site there are few who are having any problems if you actually count the numbers. I was at my dealer on Wednesday afternoon in the waiting area enjoying a cuppa and yet another Fabia cr1.6 jockey was telling me just how good it was, and in particular how his 1.6cr engine could out perform and out do my pathetically underpowered!!!, grossly uneconomic!!! and very noisey tractor (I was beginng to dislike this man). Mortally wounded...I threw down the glove, only to be thwarted by his wife who needed him to pay the bill and go shopping! He continually crowed about how many miles per gallon he was getting, much in excess of mine. It's easy to get whipped up into a quick conclusion on these sites, but often the reality is quite different. I've yet to meet anyone in person who is actually having any problem at all with his cr1.6. I now know quite a few too. My dealer too, has no knowledge of cr1.6 fuel economy problems and they've sold loads. From your posts Mike I actually think your motor is coming good and it won't be any different to any others regarding the fuel economy. But don't forget you are running winter diesel...and like my car...the winter fuel economy is suffering a bit now.

[Pud]

So who's are they? :peek: Ferrari's?

I too am thoroughly fed up with my 18 month old Fabia 2. (Its a 1.2 12V 70bhp petrol ) - Since day one its only returned an average of around 35mpg - it has not shown any significant sign of improving - I've tried running it on Tesco Momentum 99 - no difference. I've tried everything from driving like an ECO warrior (35mpg) to driving like an 18yr old hormone crazed nutter (less than 30mpg!). IT CANT EVEN MANAGE THE URBAN FIGURE. If it doesn't improve in the spring then I'm getting shut of it.

My sons Fabia Mk1 (1.2 12v comfort) - which I previously owned, returns between 40 (town) and 55mpg (long distance a/b roads).

I have the ludicrous situation where my 2 tonne Alhambra returns an average of 50+ mpg (and its a lot nicer to drive too).

Our Fabia Mk2 1.2 12v 70bhp returns around 35 local running but on a run if driven gently will give 50mpg. Use the revs or dry in a more spirited fashion will drop it back down to low 30s very quickly. Our late Octavia 2.0 tdi 4x4 estate under similar conditions returned about 41 local running and 50 on a run if not wellied too hard. Our replacement Suzuki Grand Vitara DDIS is giving about 38 locally and low 40s on a run but is very new so not bedded down yet. Certainly we find that the Fabia has to be held back to give reasonable figures.

[delta925]

I have a Fabia 1.6TDI 105PS Elegance Estate on order with build provisionally week 9 so should be an 11 plate not 60.

I don't mind if it slips a little as probably easier to sell my car a bit longer after Christmas and (hopefully) brighter warmer weather.

I aim to keep it for 8-10 years so decided diesel rather than petrol as assuming road tax stays £70 year cheaper that covers most of the higher purchase price then I'm trusting the price difference between petrol and diesel does not reach 30% so my fuel cost will be less and eventually the diesel will be more desirable and have a better resale.

If I was only intending to keep 3-5 years petrol would have been the better value choice.

The current deal of discount equivalent to VAT and 2 years free credit for 50% of price makes a new Fabia a bargain but also I was thinking 1.6 engine more refined and economical so went for new rather than looking for a used Fabia 3 1.9 tdi.

I currently have a 10 year old Audi A4 Avant 1.9tdi 115PS.

On my regular journey pattern this returns just over 50mpg by the computer and just under 50mpg by my calculations.

I am hoping once 5000 miles on the clock to be getting nearer to 60mpg from the 1.6 Fabia.

The various comments about running in and the best gears / engine speed for good mpg are interesting.

On my test drive I noted the 1.6 didn't seem quite as happy at say 1500rpm as my 1.9 Audi so can see need to adopt to keeping in 4th below 50mph or so rather than changing up at 35-40mph.

I hope any issues with the ECU software etc are now resolved.

Regarding the DPF my journey is 11 miles each way with 7 on dual carriageway so 60-75mph so I hope that will keep it happy.

[xman]

Just filled my Fabia 1.2 12v 70bhp - 30.3mpg!!!!

:swear: :swear: :swear:

[BDG]

With all this very confusing discussion about fuel consumption I found this posting interesting!

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargains-and-rip-offs/ask-an-expert/article.html?in_article_id=489475&in_page_id=513

[raisbeck]

Just filled my Fabia 1.2 12v 70bhp - 30.3mpg!!!!

:swear: :swear: :swear:

When I had my Fabia 1.2 HTP 12 valve I always got 48-50 with mixed driving. 100 mile daily commute mixture of fast A roads and town sections.

It was like that all the way up to 98,000 miles when I part exchanged it for the Greenline.

[Pud]

Just filled my Fabia 1.2 12v 70bhp - 30.3mpg!!!!

:swear: :swear: :swear:

Are you taking the 15 litre filler pipe in account? Just an idea.

[RandomSkodaperson]

I have a Fabia 1.6TDI 105PS Elegance Estate on order with build provisionally week 9 so should be an 11 plate not 60.

I don't mind if it slips a little as probably easier to sell my car a bit longer after Christmas and (hopefully) brighter warmer weather.

I aim to keep it for 8-10 years so decided diesel rather than petrol as assuming road tax stays £70 year cheaper that covers most of the higher purchase price then I'm trusting the price difference between petrol and diesel does not reach 30% so my fuel cost will be less and eventually the diesel will be more desirable and have a better resale.

If I was only intending to keep 3-5 years petrol would have been the better value choice.

The current deal of discount equivalent to VAT and 2 years free credit for 50% of price makes a new Fabia a bargain but also I was thinking 1.6 engine more refined and economical so went for new rather than looking for a used Fabia 3 1.9 tdi.

I currently have a 10 year old Audi A4 Avant 1.9tdi 115PS.

On my regular journey pattern this returns just over 50mpg by the computer and just under 50mpg by my calculations.

I am hoping once 5000 miles on the clock to be getting nearer to 60mpg from the 1.6 Fabia.

The various comments about running in and the best gears / engine speed for good mpg are interesting.

On my test drive I noted the 1.6 didn't seem quite as happy at say 1500rpm as my 1.9 Audi so can see need to adopt to keeping in 4th below 50mph or so rather than changing up at 35-40mph.

I hope any issues with the ECU software etc are now resolved.

Regarding the DPF my journey is 11 miles each way with 7 on dual carriageway so 60-75mph so I hope that will keep it happy.

Wow, what a thread!

Just to let you know my Roomster 1.6 TDI 105 CR is still returning very close to recommended mpg! Fantastic car.

I have been to Austria for a weeks skiing at - 15 C and it has performed spot on,

3k + on the clock and it has managed over 60mpg average.

[xman]

When I had my Fabia 1.2 HTP 12 valve I always got 48-50 with mixed driving. 100 mile daily commute mixture of fast A roads and town sections.

It was like that all the way up to 98,000 miles when I part exchanged it for the Greenline.

Likewise my sons Mk 1 2004 64bhp 1.2 12V hence my anger at this modern replacement.

Pud, this has been going on since day one - sure some variations but no more than 35mpg on a refill. :sick:

[stevensmith91]

Just filled my Fabia 1.2 12v 70bhp - 30.3mpg!!!!

:swear: :swear: :swear:

you must be heavy footed :giggle:

[xman]

you must be heavy footed :giggle:

Quite the opposite - I return over 50mpg average in my Seat Alhambra even in Winter.

When I first bought this Fabia it had a tendency to cough,splutter and die immediately after a cold start, with a strong smell of petrol - indicative of a too rich mixture. It doesn't do that now - in fact it runs very well and smooth, but I do wonder if its running rich because of a bad sensor , e.g. the lambda probe not very well calibrated? Don't know if the dealer would be interested beyond the "its running well so whats the problem?"

I accept I may have a bad example, but for me its reason enough to think another marque in future.

Edited 28 December, 2010 by xman

[Guest]

Quite the opposite - I return over 50mpg average in my Seat Alhambra even in Winter

Have you had the car checked over by your dealer, a Skoda dealer not an independant?

Edited 28 December, 2010 by Estate Man

[FABTPM]

Hello,

What you say sounds exactly like my situation. The mpg is nothing like their claims. All Skoda ever says is it'll come. Strange thing is, some people seem to get good economy, whereas others get very poor for no apparent reason. No matter what people do, they don't seem to be able to get their mpg up if it's poor to start with. I know people talk about the superb build quality and engineering of VW engines, but it sounds very like variable build quality to me. Some work out good, whereas others don't and never perform well.

As to the shaking of the DPF regen, yes I get that too. Basically, if the regen starts and then you slow considerably, especially to tickover, the engine becomes very shaky, vibrates the car, sounds like it's going to stall all the time and basically is just plain unpleasant. At speed, you don't get the same problem. Presumably, it's something to do with the different engine tuning etc. run during regen to try and keep the temperature high in the DPF. Either way, it's very disturbing and not nice. You don't say if you've asked Skoda, but when I pointed it out, they didn't want to know.

Thanks,

Mike

[FABTPM]

Hi Mike,

With respect to the engine shaking during a regen, I have been speaking with the dealer for a few months about this. The dealer has witnessed this twice now and initially agreed that this was not normal and could not believe no warning lights had come on. They did a diagnostic check and got 'weird' information but because the car stopped doing the regen and went back to normal they put it down to a loose connection. I got the car back and monitored it and the shaking still happened. The car was returned and Skoda remotely re-mapped the ECU, this was early September. They also gave the car an oil change at Skoda's request as the oil level had gone above maximum. The car still shakes, sometimes quite violently and the word now from Skoda is that it is a characteristic of the engine. I see the same thing as you, if you are at speed you do not notice anything but if at idle the car is terrible and I do not believe this is acceptable. The oil level is also rising again.

Going back to the MPG problem it is so variable but even on a good day I still think it is 10 to 15% lower than I expected. Recent long trips of about 60 miles at 70mph gave me an average of 51mpg, the return journey at a steady 65mph gave me 58mpg. Over Christmas on a 100 mile trip travelling at 60 to 65mph I got 61mpg and on the return journey at 65-70mph I got 54mpg. So on a long easy drive it struggles to reach the urban figure.

Below is the quote the dealership sent to me from Skoda Technical with regards to the fuel consumption.

Also having driven a 1.6 CR TDI for 6 months the MPG, comfort and performance were totally different (better) once the car had covered approximately 4000 mls. Also be aware the MPG figures published in the brochure are figures produced by a independent government department not Skoda.

I am currently waiting to hear back from Skoda customer service as the dealership do not know what else they can do. I won't hold my breath.

Edited 29 December, 2010 by FABTPM

[Guest]

Hi Fat, hope you don't mind me jumping in for a mo. The rising oil level thing is usually just condensation build up in the oil. A long run to get the oil up to temperature and keep it there for a while will drop it down to where it should be. Diesels are famed for this if used predominately for shorter trips in winter where, although the engine may be warmed up, the oil only just reaches full working temperature (this happens after about 7-8miles in summer and 10miles or so in winter). The fact Skoda requested the dealer to do an oil change indicates they believe that there is a condensation build up. Fuel can also gets into the oil, but rarely in any amount. Again a good run gets rid as this to can happen if the vehicle is being driven predominately slowly, or is used on shorter trips for a duration of time. Petrol engines can suffer these symptoms too in winter but less so, it's also more damaging to petrol engines to have this happen.

On the shaking thing...my friends who have the 1.6cr also noticed the shaking of the engine when they first go it. It gets less and less as the miles go on though. It's much worse when the engine is tight, they have all said that. One of my friends has over 17,500 miles on his now and you can barely notice it regenerating at idle. I can vouch for this, I've driven his car often...it's brilliant and I have never detected a regen. Driven around town I usually get around 51-53mpg depending what I'm carrying. He goes to Leicester often and gets 65-70mpg, again depending what he is carrying. He has not had any adjustments made to his engine during the time he has had it.

[xman]

Hi Fat, hope you don't mind me jumping in for a mo. The rising oil level thing is usually just condensation build up in the oil.

No its not! Its a consequence of the regen - during a regen, fuel is injected very late, this remains unburnt with the intention of making it into the DPF where it will ignite and burn raising the DPF temperature to start the regen process.

Inevitably some fuel will wash past the rings and get into the sump - its a well known problem with DPF equipped vehicles and yet another reason why I probably wont buy one.