Am I the only one not to like the vRS?

[stokey]

Went for a test drive today with the intention of swapping the Octy CRi vRS for a furby vRS and was very disappointed. Since buying a 205 GTi as my first new car back in 87 I've owned or driven most hot hatches including 2 mk1 furby vRS's and both petrol and diesel Octy vRS's and prior to this vRS I owned an Abarth 500. I found the furby to be very noisy and not the nice exhaust burble on overrun that the Abarth had. The worse thing though was the gearbox which i initially found fun both in sport and tiptronic modes, until it tried to kill us! We were returning to the dealers when I had to turn right off the busy A road and were stationary for a while waiting for a suitable gap, when one came i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen then it lurched across the road before picking up and shooting into the distance with lots of tyre smoke! I tried to replicate the hessitation on a nearby carpark numerous times but couldn't, once was more than enough. The last car that used to try and kill me was the Renault 5GT Turbo which due to fuel vapourising in the carb caused similar symptoms of lurching into the path oncoming traffic on pulling out from side roads!

[banksider50]

Went for a test drive today with the intention of swapping the Octy CRi vRS for a furby vRS and was very disappointed. Since buying a 205 GTi as my first new car back in 87 I've owned or driven most hot hatches including 2 mk1 furby vRS's and both petrol and diesel Octy vRS's and prior to this vRS I owned an Abarth 500. I found the furby to be very noisy and not the nice exhaust burble on overrun that the Abarth had. The worse thing though was the gearbox which i initially found fun both in sport and tiptronic modes, until it tried to kill us! We were returning to the dealers when I had to turn right off the busy A road and were stationary for a while waiting for a suitable gap, when one came i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen then it lurched across the road before picking up and shooting into the distance with lots of tyre smoke! I tried to replicate the hessitation on a nearby carpark numerous times but couldn't, once was more than enough. The last car that used to try and kill me was the Renault 5GT Turbo which due to fuel vapourising in the carb caused similar symptoms of lurching into the path oncoming traffic on pulling out from side roads!

Yeah. That's the drag with the VRS or rather the auto box. What did you think of your Abarth 500?

[Jalalabad]

Went for a test drive today with the intention of swapping the Octy CRi vRS for a furby vRS and was very disappointed. Since buying a 205 GTi as my first new car back in 87 I've owned or driven most hot hatches including 2 mk1 furby vRS's and both petrol and diesel Octy vRS's and prior to this vRS I owned an Abarth 500. I found the furby to be very noisy and not the nice exhaust burble on overrun that the Abarth had. The worse thing though was the gearbox which i initially found fun both in sport and tiptronic modes, until it tried to kill us! We were returning to the dealers when I had to turn right off the busy A road and were stationary for a while waiting for a suitable gap, when one came i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen then it lurched across the road before picking up and shooting into the distance with lots of tyre smoke! I tried to replicate the hessitation on a nearby carpark numerous times but couldn't, once was more than enough. The last car that used to try and kill me was the Renault 5GT Turbo which due to fuel vapourising in the carb caused similar symptoms of lurching into the path oncoming traffic on pulling out from side roads!

It may have happened on the test drive cos you were not used to the dsg box. I've had mine for 2 1/2 months and love the dsg and once you're used to it the rewards are many.

Try it on a longer test drive before you judge it too harshly.

[dibujo]

If you're waiting for a gap when turning right or entering a roundabout, what else can you do other than press the accelerator and expect something to happen? I don't really see how things would change by getting used to it.

Edited 13 March, 2011 by dibujo

[stokey]

Yeah. That's the drag with the VRS or rather the auto box. What did you think of your Abarth 500?

The Abarth was great fun! The driving position was a bit odd, it was as if you were sitting on rather than in the car. Never saw another one on the road in the 12 months i owned it and it attracted more attention than cars i've owned which cost twice as much.

[Mike Austin]

I found the furby to be very noisy

That was not my exsperience. I found the VRS to be quieter than any other Mk2 Fabia I have tested. How would you say it compares with to Mk2s?

I had to turn right off the busy A road and were stationary for a while waiting for a suitable gap, when one came i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen then it lurched across the road before picking up and shooting into the distance with lots of tyre smoke!

Did you have your steering on full lock? Maybe this limits the initial power. Then there is always the 0.5-1.0 second delay before power kicks in (the same in all the current engines I have tested - tsi or tdi)

[Stu vRS]

A lot of people are saying about the delay on the DSG box.

I don't understand this, mine has zero delay at all, the second I put my foot down, it goes.

Mine isn't noisy either, exhaust sounds fine, only annoying noises are a few rattles here and there.

Regarding the DSG lag issue, this is a problem that may solve itself over a few thousand miles, mine had 5000 on when I bought it, like I said, never noticed the problem at all. There is a slight delay from the supercharger with it being on an electro-magnetic clutch.

Edited 13 March, 2011 by Stu vRS

[sharkrider]

Went for a test drive today with the intention of swapping the Octy CRi vRS for a furby vRS and was very disappointed. Since buying a 205 GTi as my first new car back in 87 I've owned or driven most hot hatches including 2 mk1 furby vRS's and both petrol and diesel Octy vRS's and prior to this vRS I owned an Abarth 500. I found the furby to be very noisy and not the nice exhaust burble on overrun that the Abarth had. The worse thing though was the gearbox which i initially found fun both in sport and tiptronic modes, until it tried to kill us! We were returning to the dealers when I had to turn right off the busy A road and were stationary for a while waiting for a suitable gap, when one came i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen then it lurched across the road before picking up and shooting into the distance with lots of tyre smoke! I tried to replicate the hessitation on a nearby carpark numerous times but couldn't, once was more than enough. The last car that used to try and kill me was the Renault 5GT Turbo which due to fuel vapourising in the carb caused similar symptoms of lurching into the path oncoming traffic on pulling out from side roads!

alot of people talk about this "hesitation" after 2800 miles now, I can honestly tell you this NEVER happens to me. People just need to learn how to use it properly..... there must be something people are doing to "create" this problem. I also teach to drive in mine part time, and the 2 pupils I have right now have never had this "hesitation" either, and they are doing what I have taught them to do to use the DSG properly.....

(1) you can catch it out.. if you were hankering at gaps in traffic, you may have rolled a bit, pressed the brake (which would disengage the clutch) and then immediately (within a fraction of a second) gone back to the gas,this hesitation is what 'could' have cause the situation you describe, as the clutch would not be ready in time.......

when you come off the brake the clutch engages immediatley,(provided (1) above hasn't been done to upset it) there is absolutley no delay, and any ammount of power is instantly available depending on how hard you press the gas....

this is how mine works, I'm not sure if some models have a different software controlling the box, but me, and my pupils, have never had hesitation, unless deliberatley provoked....

like anything its just a case of learning a new bit of technology.....

if anyone is up in Cumbria, and would like some of my time for explanations/demonstrastions ect, just drop me a PM.

the subject has more variables, for example was the junction on a hill? did you have the footbrake on and therefore was operating the electronic hill holder? there are ways to avoid this too...... but i don't have time now to go into all the details, but this hesitation is either cars that are different to mine, or the box simply not being understood properly.

[Jalalabad]

If you're waiting for a gap when turning right or entering a roundabout, what else can you do other than press the accelerator and expect something to happen? I don't really see how things would change by getting used to it.

Uh, if you've never driven an auto before there are certain knacks to it completely different from a manual. The dsg is super fast to change but it isnt psychic, if you've just hit the brake and straight on the power it has to have a slight delay or you'd have no clutch left after a few hundred miles.

[retiredbri]

Went for a test drive today ...... until it tried to kill us! ...... i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen ....

I've read a few threads about this problem - is it just the vRS with the DSG box to save the engine overrevving or does it happen on the 1.2TSI (105) +DSG engines as well?

Is it the HHC (hill hold control) that only seems to come with DSG?

We currently have a Citroen with a selectamatic gearbox and it is perfect, even though it is not a double clutch box. Hope that our car (Fabia SE 1.2TSI(105) DSG) will be ok?

regards

Brian

[ChrisRs]

Its fantastic to drive

The DSG is superb

It takes a few miles to get used to it..Once you do..Youll be a Pig in muck!!!

[Auric Goldfinger]

Its fantastic to drive

The DSG is superb

It takes a few miles to get used to it..Once you do..Youll be a Pig in muck!!!

I must say I'm getting use to the DSG box "Oink Oink"

Edited 13 March, 2011 by Auric Goldfinger

[stokey]

alot of people talk about this "hesitation" after 2800 miles now, I can honestly tell you this NEVER happens to me. People just need to learn how to use it properly..... there must be something people are doing to "create" this problem. I also teach to drive in mine part time, and the 2 pupils I have right now have never had this "hesitation" either, and they are doing what I have taught them to do to use the DSG properly.....

(1) you can catch it out.. if you were hankering at gaps in traffic, you may have rolled a bit, pressed the brake (which would disengage the clutch) and then immediately (within a fraction of a second) gone back to the gas,this hesitation is what 'could' have cause the situation you describe, as the clutch would not be ready in time.......

when you come off the brake the clutch engages immediatley,(provided (1) above hasn't been done to upset it) there is absolutley no delay, and any ammount of power is instantly available depending on how hard you press the gas....

this is how mine works, I'm not sure if some models have a different software controlling the box, but me, and my pupils, have never had hesitation, unless deliberatley provoked....

like anything its just a case of learning a new bit of technology.....

if anyone is up in Cumbria, and would like some of my time for explanations/demonstrastions ect, just drop me a PM.

the subject has more variables, for example was the junction on a hill? did you have the footbrake on and therefore was operating the electronic hill holder? there are ways to avoid this too...... but i don't have time now to go into all the details, but this hesitation is either cars that are different to mine, or the box simply not being understood properly.

In this case the junction was on the flat and I was stationary for at least a minute before trying trying to pull away. It was after driving for 20+ minutes with no problems and like i said i couldn't replicate it again on a carpark but once was enough! Also I owned a Scout manual with HHC and it didn't have any lag when pulling away even on a hill.

[Stug]

Its fantastic to drive

The DSG is superb

It takes a few miles to get used to it..Once you do..Youll be a Pig in muck!!!

+1 Love everything about the car and i'm only 420 miles in so far!!

[BossFox]

No car is ever going to appeal to everyone.

I like the DSG box, think it's great in our Yeti. It is better once you get used to it, no doubt.

But I wouldn't want it in a car I drive for fun a couple of days a week personally.

So I recently went and bought one of the last registered mk1 Furby VRS for a "fun" car instead.

[sharkrider]

In this case the junction was on the flat and I was stationary for at least a minute before trying trying to pull away. It was after driving for 20+ minutes with no problems and like i said i couldn't replicate it again on a carpark but once was enough! Also I owned a Scout manual with HHC and it didn't have any lag when pulling away even on a hill.

If, i assume, you were in drive, with the footbrake fully depressed, and no handbrake, this shouldn't have happened. How bizzar.

you are not alone in describing this, I cannot explain it (if the above conditions were met) all I can say, is this has never happened to my car in 2800 miles.... there are others like Can, and CrisRS who have never experianced this too....

I seriously wonder if there has been a software update for the DSG withing the current life of the vRS? Can any of you teccies or skoda employees find out for us?

edit: oh, and abarth 500 ? cracking car why did you get rid?

Edited 13 March, 2011 by sharkrider

[VRS Doug VX]

This is very interesting to read. I'm a keen driver & like to think I can suss most things out pretty quickly. 2400 miles in the Furby now & I've learnt to drive around the delay in most circumstances...but I wouldn't go for a tight gap from a standing start in the Furby that I'd go for in the Octy...I just don't trust the lag...it's like a really slow clutch pick-up...and both the wife & I have had the 'Oh ****' moment followed by the car firing up the road like a cat on fire. Putting the car in S mode seems to help or anticipating by releasing the brake pedal a second early so the car starts to creep (I don't think this must be nice for other drivers though!).

The fact that some people don't seem to suffer from this problem makes me want a ride in an unaffected car! :wonder:

It's not the engine...the engine response is bang on the money...it's the DSG!

[Mike Austin]

I've read a few threads about this problem - is it just the vRS with the DSG box to save the engine overrevving or does it happen on the 1.2TSI (105) +DSG engines as well?

Personally, I did not notice any delay specific to the DSG box. I found the delay on a manual 1.2tsi Yeti, a manual 1.2tsi Fabia and a manual 1.6tdi(90) Fabia. It is a 0.5-1.0 second delay, at any speed, when I put my foot down. Back on my old Mk1 Fabia, the response is immediate. Also, I do not recall noticing it on a 1.4 16v, pre FL Mk2 a couple of years ago.

Someone did mention that this may be an emissions issue. Perhaps my old Fabia gets an extra squirt of fuel which is a no-no on more modern cars.

[sharkrider]

This is very interesting to read. I'm a keen driver & like to think I can suss most things out pretty quickly. 2400 miles in the Furby now & I've learnt to drive around the delay in most circumstances...but I wouldn't go for a tight gap from a standing start in the Furby that I'd go for in the Octy...I just don't trust the lag...it's like a really slow clutch pick-up...and both the wife & I have had the 'Oh ****' moment followed by the car firing up the road like a cat on fire. Putting the car in S mode seems to help or anticipating by releasing the brake pedal a second early so the car starts to creep (I don't think this must be nice for other drivers though!).

The fact that some people don't seem to suffer from this problem makes me want a ride in an unaffected car! :wonder:

It's not the engine...the engine response is bang on the money...it's the DSG!

again, I don't understand... I have never had to alter my approch to gap, there is litterly NO delay... ever....

I'm almost certain with posts like this, that some vRS's drive differently, if you are ever up in the lakes, give me a PM and drive mine! lol...

[shyfly]

Went for a test drive today with the intention of swapping the Octy CRi vRS for a furby vRS and was very disappointed. Since buying a 205 GTi as my first new car back in 87 I've owned or driven most hot hatches including 2 mk1 furby vRS's and both petrol and diesel Octy vRS's and prior to this vRS I owned an Abarth 500. I found the furby to be very noisy and not the nice exhaust burble on overrun that the Abarth had. The worse thing though was the gearbox which i initially found fun both in sport and tiptronic modes, until it tried to kill us! We were returning to the dealers when I had to turn right off the busy A road and were stationary for a while waiting for a suitable gap, when one came i pressed the throttle only for nothing to happen then it lurched across the road before picking up and shooting into the distance with lots of tyre smoke! I tried to replicate the hessitation on a nearby carpark numerous times but couldn't, once was more than enough. The last car that used to try and kill me was the Renault 5GT Turbo which due to fuel vapourising in the carb caused similar symptoms of lurching into the path oncoming traffic on pulling out from side roads!

i too tok out a vrs on a couple of occasions,and was dissapointed with the overall drive of the car,having owned the mk1 vrs fab, and mk2 octy vrs, iv decided on the best compromise, which is the montecarlo, its a package more in tune with the original ethos of the mk1 vrs,and looks better with a no cost black roof and a diesel engine

[retiredbri]

Its fantastic to drive

The DSG is superb

It takes a few miles to get used to it..Once you do..Youll be a Pig in muck!!!

Thanks Chris, you say "It takes a few miles to get used to it" - do you mean the delay or the DSG compared with driving a manual?

Thanks all. The posts seem to be mixed but the concensus is that it's the DSG and not the engine so vRS or petrol 1.2TSi (105) could be the same. I was an engineer before retiring so try to break things down to get some answers.

Q1: If you were at the flat junction but had the handbrake on and then saw the gap and released the handbrake and applied power, what would happen? Wold there still be a 1 sec delay?

Q2: Our car will be for my wife and myself. Will the "adaption learning" for my style be a problem when my wife drives the car - eg on alternate days?

Q3: Our driving style is mainly "sedate" (our age and watching the mpg). Could the 1 sec lag happen more or less wih this style of driving.

Q4: After many miles of sedate driving, what happens when you suddenly need more oomph. How does the DSG respond to these rapid changes in styles?

Q5: The fact that the lag happens at all is disconcerting so is it that for those that have never had a problem, could it be driving style or as someone suggests, a software update to the DSG box?

Q6: Finally, is the DSG in the vRS set up "on delivery" differently to the 1.2TSi engine?

Hope to get some considered views od some or all of the questions - thanks in advance for your patience, Brian

[pipsyp]

I gather there is a slight issue with DSG gearboxes (not sure if affects both the wet clutch 6 speed and dry clutch 7 speed versions) where there seems to be a little hesitation when pulling away from stationary where the clutches take a few moments to engage.

I cant say that I noticed any issues on my test drive in a vRS though I only drove the car for about 10 mins. I've also driven a Scirocco 2.0 TDi 140 DSG and didnt notice any such problem on that either.

I am wondering whether the issue is down to the box being put into neutral, either on purpose by the driver or in order to save the clutches as the gearbox is still in drive with the handbrake on. May not be the case but worth consideration.

I'm fairly certain that although the gearbox is a robotised dual clutch manual that it behaves like a typical auto box and will "creap" if left in drive. Given this if you were sat at a junction with your foot on the brake, the car should still be in gear and be ready to go as soon as you apply power.

If the handbrake is applied I'm wondering if the box drops into neutral as a safety feature (to prevent unnecessary clutch wear). If so it would then take a second to two for the clutches to re-engage and for you to be able to move off in the same way it takes an auto box a few seconds to select drive when shifted from neutral.

When I drive an auto of any kind, if I come to a stop at a junction I always just use the foot brake, it's not going to do a DSG box any harm doing this.

Edited 14 March, 2011 by pipsyp

[Mike Austin]

Thanks all. The posts seem to be mixed but the consensus is that it's the DSG and not the engine so vRS or petrol 1.2TSi (105) could be the same. I was an engineer before retiring so try to break things down to get some answers.

I am also an engineer (though not retired yet) and would like to break things down. Firstly, I find a lag exists without a dsg box on at least two engine types - 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi (1.4tsi also but, as it includes a dsg, this confuses the issue). Before we check what extra lag the dsg box might be adding, we need to isolate what degree of lag there is already from the engine itself.

[pipsyp]

I am also an engineer (though not retired yet) and would like to break things down. Firstly, I find a lag exists without a dsg box on at least two engine types - 1.2tsi and 1.6tdi (1.4tsi also but, as it includes a dsg, this confuses the issue). Before we check what extra lag the dsg box might be adding, we need to isolate what degree of lag there is already from the engine itself.

Adding my two pence worth, my 2.0 TDi 140 Golf has a very soft initial throttle response. You press the throttle and get the power you asked for a second or so later, very disconcerting until you've gotten used to it.

Have also noticed there is a sweet spot on the accelerator to get max acceleration, its at approx 3/4 travel, you get no more benefit from putting your foot to the floor.

It's got to be entirely down to the drive by wire calibration on the latest gen VAG cars, its certainly very poorly set up on my Golf. You could consider it dangerous in certain circumstances. Throttle response on our old 1.9 PD 130 Ibiza was much better, in fact it was a quicker car no question.

I cant say however that the same problem inflicts the 1.4 TSi 180ps, was lightening sharp by comparison

[Mike Austin]

I cant say however that the same problem inflicts the 1.4 TSi 180ps, was lightening sharp by comparison

If the dsg adapts to driving style, maybe engine settings are also adapted and that could explain why experiences of lag differ. (It would not explain different experiences on the manual cars, though.)