Am I the only one not to like the vRS?

[ChrisRs]

Thanks Chris, you say "It takes a few miles to get used to it" - do you mean the delay or the DSG compared with driving a manual? I havent noticed a delay...Yes an auto does take some getting used to

Thanks all. The posts seem to be mixed but the concensus is that it's the DSG and not the engine so vRS or petrol 1.2TSi (105) could be the same. I was an engineer before retiring so try to break things down to get some answers.

Q1: If you were at the flat junction but had the handbrake on and then saw the gap and released the handbrake and applied power, what would happen? Wold there still be a 1 sec delay? As said..I dont see a delay..Throttle response is very sharp and can make you spin the wheels if you set off too fast

Q2: Our car will be for my wife and myself. Will the "adaption learning" for my style be a problem when my wife drives the car - eg on alternate days? No.I havent noticed

Q3: Our driving style is mainly "sedate" (our age and watching the mpg). Could the 1 sec lag happen more or less wih this style of driving. Dont have a delay so.. No

Q4: After many miles of sedate driving, what happens when you suddenly need more oomph. How does the DSG respond to these rapid changes in styles? It will take a little longer to change gear on full power, but it soon adapts

Q5: The fact that the lag happens at all is disconcerting so is it that for those that have never had a problem, could it be driving style or as someone suggests, a software update to the DSG box?

If you get it, then it may need an update..We havent noticed a lag

Q6: Finally, is the DSG in the vRS set up "on delivery" differently to the 1.2TSi engine?

No idea..Doubt it

Hope to get some considered views od some or all of the questions - thanks in advance for your patience, Brian

Hope Ive been helpful

[stokey]

edit: oh, and abarth 500 ? cracking car why did you get rid?

It is a cracking car, let down by the lack of dealers, living in Lincolnshire the nearest one was over 50 miles away. The servicing costs quoted were stupid too.

Other than that the only problems were that it had no spare, the foam repair kit was useless and the bodykit covered the jacking points, so it was a dealer job to et a wheel off. Oh and it was impossible to get the polished alloys repaired locally once wifey had curbed a couple of them! :S

[sharkrider]

I would suggest people, that you do not put the handbrake on, and leave the DSG in drive, as the clutch will engage and you will damage it (unless you keep your foot on the footbrake!) just use the footbrake, so the clutch disengages. If you wish to use the handbrake as you are waiting a long time (railway crossing , temp traffic lights ect) put it in neutral or park.....

[BossFox]

I'm fairly certain that although the gearbox is a robotised dual clutch manual that it behaves like a typical auto box and will "creap" if left in drive. Given this if you were sat at a junction with your foot on the brake, the car should still be in gear and be ready to go as soon as you apply power.

The DSGs I've driven seem to drop out of gear when stationary, even if you have the handbrake off and are sitting with your foot on the brake pedal. So it doesn't creep like if left in drive. It's more like an automated manual.

It does sense when you are about to take your foot off the brake though, as when you get to the last little bit of travel on the brake pedal it engages first gear so you are ready to go.

[pipsyp]

Yep I've had a good trawl on the net and it would appear that the car disengages the clutches when the car is stationary and the foot brake is applied, there will be a slight pause whilst the clutch plates reactivate when stepping off the brake, though by the time you've hit the gas the car should already have begun the process of creaping.

I guess from time to time it will get caught out or **** things up regardless of how clever the electronics are but on the whole you should have drive as and when you demand it.

Makes sense now why the DSG cars come equipped with hill hold as I suppose from time to time there will be instances where the clutches dont engage quick enough and would allow the car to roll backwards slightly, could be pretty dangerous without it.

Again if you need to use the handbrake put it into neutral or park first as it will wear the clutches and clearly isnt very good for the gearbox.

[ChrisRs]

Yep I've had a good trawl on the net and it would appear that the car disengages the clutches when the car is stationary and the foot brake is applied, there will be a slight pause whilst the clutch plates reactivate when stepping off the brake, though by the time you've hit the gas the car should already have begun the process of creaping.

I guess from time to time it will get caught out or **** things up regardless of how clever the electronics are but on the whole you should have drive as and when you demand it.

Makes sense now why the DSG cars come equipped with hill hold as I suppose from time to time there will be instances where the clutches dont engage quick enough and would allow the car to roll backwards slightly, could be pretty dangerous without it.

Again if you need to use the handbrake put it into neutral or park first as it will wear the clutches and clearly isnt very good for the gearbox.

The clutches are NOT disengaged when stationary

Always put it in neutral with your foot on the brake or you will wear the friction plates

[Stu vRS]

The clutches are NOT disengaged when stationary

Always put it in neutral with your foot on the brake or you will wear the friction plates

The Fabia manual states it is 'perfectly acceptable' (or something like that) to hold on the car on the footbrake with the DSG box.

Can't remember the exact page, will look a little later on.

[retiredbri]

Thanks for all the replies.

I tried to see if our Citroen C3 (Selectomatic) exhibited any delay and it does - only slight but we have just got used to it.

Regards

Brian

[Can]

It's a hot hatch put the foot down a bit harder and the problem is replaced with needing to feather the throttle to avoid the ESP/traction control/XDS/axle tramp wierdness I always get on more than half to 3/4 power from stationary at a junction. Also be wary of large painted areas or metal plates in the wet very bad for traction :no:

Also I find if I'm trying to hit a small gap I knock it into drive or sport now as it improves the speed the car pulls away at mainly by holding the engine idle at 1100-1200 rpm (which I believe is just about/if not in the superchargers operational range) instead of Drives 800rpm (below the range the supercharger operates)*don't have a dyno graph to hand to check the numbers.

I also believe that it is to do with the addaptive programing. Hasitate on the trottle on early acceleration and the car learns this behavour and addapts accordingly, be agressive and decisive and the car learns and addapts accordingly. I found this out after giving the car a proper run after a week of stop start commuting. The car was just much nicer to drive all round sharper throttle response more willing kick down willing to hold gears longer. Though I do find the DSG has some odd ideas about gear changes though it is so close to seamless, but it probably isn't helped by me grabbing the paddels when I disagree and giving it mixed messages.

[retiredbri]

How about this test: VW Golf R - DSG versus manual by autocar.co.uk.

The technique is interesting, is this how to avoid any delay :wonder:

Regards retiredbri

PS: Hope its OK to post links here

Edited 15 March, 2011 by retiredbri

[sharkrider]

How about this test: VW Golf R - DSG versus manual by autocar.co.uk.

The technique is interesting, is this how to avoid any delay :wonder:

Regards retiredbri

PS: Hope its OK to post links here

good vid... don't think I'll be trying that last method with mine though don't want to be revving the engine with the footbrake on then releasing the footbrake (kinda self-styled launch control?) simply flooring it in sport gives exactly the right ammount of wheelspin in my opinion, AND he didn't better the times of simply flooring it, that is how my car drives, no delay at all......

[VRS Doug VX]

I am wondering whether the issue is down to the box being put into neutral, either on purpose by the driver or in order to save the clutches as the gearbox is still in drive with the handbrake on. May not be the case but worth consideration.

When I drive an auto of any kind, if I come to a stop at a junction I always just use the foot brake, it's not going to do a DSG box any harm doing this.

Before I drove an auto for the first time I always wondered why people kept their foot on the brakes at traffic lights! It drove me mad driving a little sports car getting my eyeballs burnt out by these brake lights. I later found out that leaving an autobox in drive actualy causes the torque converter to wear prematurely. With a DSG gearbox you can feel the car pulling on light brake pressure & it obviously fully engages the clutch when you press harder...but what is it doing to the clutch bearing? The best thing you can do for any car manual/auto/DSG whilst waiting at traffic lights is PUT THE BOX INTO MANUAL...IF NOT FOR THE BOX FOR THE POOR PERSON BEHIND WHO'S STARTING TO GO BLIND!!!

Sorry...it feels better to get that off my chest..it's a real pet hate...inconsiderate driving!

For the record...I do get the box back into drive at least a second or 2 before I need to go....my wife tends to sit with the car in drive for longer & she suffers from the same DSG lag.

[LeedsVRS]

Before I drove an auto for the first time I always wondered why people kept their foot on the brakes at traffic lights! It drove me mad driving a little sports car getting my eyeballs burnt out by these brake lights. I later found out that leaving an autobox in drive actualy causes the torque converter to wear prematurely. With a DSG gearbox you can feel the car pulling on light brake pressure & it obviously fully engages the clutch when you press harder...but what is it doing to the clutch bearing? The best thing you can do for any car manual/auto/DSG whilst waiting at traffic lights is PUT THE BOX INTO MANUAL...IF NOT FOR THE BOX FOR THE POOR PERSON BEHIND WHO'S STARTING TO GO BLIND!!!

Sorry...it feels better to get that off my chest..it's a real pet hate...inconsiderate driving!

For the record...I do get the box back into drive at least a second or 2 before I need to go....my wife tends to sit with the car in drive for longer & she suffers from the same DSG lag.

So, how do you put an automatic into manual then?

Edited 15 March, 2011 by LeedsVRS

[Stu vRS]

Before I drove an auto for the first time I always wondered why people kept their foot on the brakes at traffic lights! It drove me mad driving a little sports car getting my eyeballs burnt out by these brake lights. I later found out that leaving an autobox in drive actualy causes the torque converter to wear prematurely. With a DSG gearbox you can feel the car pulling on light brake pressure & it obviously fully engages the clutch when you press harder...but what is it doing to the clutch bearing? The best thing you can do for any car manual/auto/DSG whilst waiting at traffic lights is PUT THE BOX INTO MANUAL...IF NOT FOR THE BOX FOR THE POOR PERSON BEHIND WHO'S STARTING TO GO BLIND!!!

Sorry...it feels better to get that off my chest..it's a real pet hate...inconsiderate driving!

For the record...I do get the box back into drive at least a second or 2 before I need to go....my wife tends to sit with the car in drive for longer & she suffers from the same DSG lag.

I'm guessing you mean neutral

In the car manual it does state it is fine to hold the car on the footbrake with the DSG box.

It is a pain to put it in neutral because you have to:

A. Press footbrake

B. Put it into neutral

C. Put the handbrake on

D. Release footbrake

E. Press footbrake

F. Shift car into drive or manual

G. Release handbrake

H. Release footbrake

Can take ages, hindering drivers behind you.

As opposed to:

A. Press footbrake

B. Release footbrake

If it is night time and there is somebody right behind me, and I know I am going to be sat there a while, I will put it into neutral out of consideration.

Edited 15 March, 2011 by Stu vRS

[retiredbri]

...... I later found out that leaving an autobox in drive actualy causes the torque converter to wear prematurely.

I thought that an old style automatic that had a fluid flywheel/torque converter suffered from the creep problem. I didn't think it could wear out because there was fluid between the driving and driven parts of the torque converter.

....... With a DSG gearbox you can feel the car pulling on light brake pressure & it obviously fully engages the clutch when you press harder...

Not sure if I understand. If you have your foot on the brake and off the accelerator, the engine would be at idle and I would have thought that the ECU/Mechatroncs logic would keep both sets of clutch plates seperated so there was no wear (on the plates).

If you take your foot of the brake and put light pressure on the accelerator, then the control units would move the engine to a slightly higher speed and start to engage the clutch. You would start to move forward and more pressure on the gas would accelerate you away.

I think that it is the delay between applying slight then more pressure on the gas and the car actually moving that is the cause for concern in this thread.

Hope I'm not talking out of my :moon: here!

Retiredbri

PS: our Citroen C3 is the "Stop Start" version and it relies on the driver to have the foot on the brake to signal to the engine to Stop and only when the foot is taken off the brake does the engine Start ready to apply the gas and pull away. There is no "conventional" starter motor (it would take too long) so they have used the alternator to be be a powerful motor driving through a tougher fan belt to start the engine (almost intantly) and without any noise.

So, from all C3 Stop Start drivers, in the interest of saving fuel while stopped at traffic lights (or in a queue of traffic) I appologise for blinding the drivers behind.

Edited 16 March, 2011 by retiredbri

[pipsyp]

The clutches are NOT disengaged when stationary

Always put it in neutral with your foot on the brake or you will wear the friction plates

Fair enough I did think this initally but its not what people have been saying on the Golf MK5 forum.

I think the hesitation therefore would be down to throttle delay, given that the clutches are engaged and ready to go. All modern VAG cars I've driven dont have the sharpest of throttle responses, the TDi's are the worst culprits.

[VRS Doug VX]

Yes I meant Neutral!!

I'd never suggest putting the car into N if it would irritate other drivers...I'd also look like a bit of a berk if I spent ages pratting about. I just drive it as I would a manual. I did mention traffic lights.

Also to retiredbri, you do not need to touch the accel to get the car moving, almost as soon as you lift your frrot off the brake the car starts to creep...that's why you can't hold it on the handbrake...not that you'd want too without putting it in N first.

[retiredbri]

................ almost as soon as you lift your foot off the brake the car starts to creep...that's why you can't hold it on the handbrake...not that you'd want too without putting it in N first.

Doug - do you have a the 6 speed auto or the 7 speed DSG in your VRS?

Regards

retiredbri

[vRSy]

there is only the 7spd DSG option. collected mine yesterday. NO DSG issues to speak of