Have you got a boost surge after a re-map?

[DBP]

Out of interest,

Does anyone know what the 0-60 time is after a stage 1 remap?

It currently sits at 7.6 secs

[hazydaze]

Hello Again

You may have read earlier in the thread of my experience with a Shark Stage 1 Map and STS unit.

The map exhibited major surging problems and despite many requests for help from Shark I received none and requested my money back.

It had been suggested that this could have been caused by hardware problems on the vehicle or maybe the fault was already present in the Standard Map. An example was shown in Post 135 of this thread to support this suggestion showing variations in the torque and power curves over a significant engine speed range.

I have now had my car re-mapped at R-Tech in Hinkley last week and this is the resultant power curve.

As you can see there are variations in the curve of a similar level and frequency to those displayed in the earlier Shark curves.. All I can say that these variations, which R-Tech suggest are due to weak actuator/N75 performance, are undetectable in driving the vehicle.

The Boost from the R-Tech map is smooth and progressive. I would suggest that the frequency of the variation shown is nothing like the rate of the boost surge that was demonstrated on the Shark map. I believe that this was a Red Herring.

I would add that other than a new set of tyres the car is mechanically unchanged from when the Shark Map was loaded.

I don't deny that some mechanical problems could cause similar Surge problem to that that I was experiencing but in my case it does appear that it was solely due to a problem with the map.

[rk696]

As you can see there are variations in the curve of a similar level and frequency to those displayed in the earlier Shark curves.

Doesn't that mean the problem is still there?

Just seems strange how you said the curve variations are similar to the Shark map, but you can't feel them anymore?

Edited 3 November, 2011 by rk696

[hazydaze]

Hi

That's my point, these levels of variation shown in the power/torque curve are insufficient to cause a detectable Boost Surge when driving. This is not proof that the problem is on some standard cars as claimed in Post 135 http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/194909-have-you-got-a-boost-surge-after-a-re-map/page__view__findpost__p__2339634

The Surge problem can not be identified by these variations in the Power curve

Regards

Doesn't that mean the problem is still there?

Just seems strange how you said the curve variations are similar to the Shark map, but you can't feel them anymore?

[pauldazzle]

I've used K&N panel filters on several VAG 1.8T's & never had one oil up the MAF. I would say that aftermarket MAF's are very suspect in causing running issues on mapped cars. If a remap has a steep boost curve that often causes surging & hesitation too.

[JonsVRS]

Had mine mapped today and I'm well impressed with the results . 03 reg vrs

[missingmyvrs]

taken from r-tech website

We have been updated with many emails from 1.8T 20v owners which have Golf, Seat & Skoda VRS with the AUM and AUQ engine codes. They have reported issues of there remaps from other tuners causing boost surge and 17705 limp mode / fault codes.

The fault IS based in the OEM mapping and once remapped the fault is highlighted and becomes a really anoying issues when trying to drive the car in a smooth linear style. It took us close on 7 months to produce a map code which was was happy to sell and provide to our customers, this is reflected in our feedback since 2005

We have known about these surge issues since 2004 when we started our development on out Gen3 map code for the later AUM/AUQ map software.

We spent the whole summer in 2005 on out own Skoda 180 AUM VRS mapping out the fault code, the end result was a unique one off custom map ccode unique to the R-Tech gen4 5 and gen6 custom and generic mapping code.

All R-Tech AUM AUQ maps have had the anit surge mapping code loaded since late 2005, which has provied all of our customers with one of the BEST developed 1.8T remaps in europe. Linear throttle control, smooth boost, no 17705 fault codes related to the map code. We have over 3000 very happy customers running the R-Tech Gen codes and have had many many 10000s of miles of faultless fun.

If your car is already spec1 mapped by another tuner we can provide the map patch for £150 all inc.

If your going from stock to spec1 then the R-Tech gen6 remap will be £200, which includes rolling road session.

All of our spec2 and custom remap will also be based around the R-Tech Gen6 code.

For more information call Nick Gower on 01455 617233

[VRS Mike]

taken from r-tech website

We have been updated with many emails from 1.8T 20v owners which have Golf, Seat & Skoda VRS with the AUM and AUQ engine codes. They have reported issues of there remaps from other tuners causing boost surge and 17705 limp mode / fault codes.

The fault IS based in the OEM mapping and once remapped the fault is highlighted and becomes a really anoying issues when trying to drive the car in a smooth linear style. It took us close on 7 months to produce a map code which was was happy to sell and provide to our customers, this is reflected in our feedback since 2005

We have known about these surge issues since 2004 when we started our development on out Gen3 map code for the later AUM/AUQ map software.

We spent the whole summer in 2005 on out own Skoda 180 AUM VRS mapping out the fault code, the end result was a unique one off custom map ccode unique to the R-Tech gen4 5 and gen6 custom and generic mapping code.

All R-Tech AUM AUQ maps have had the anit surge mapping code loaded since late 2005, which has provied all of our customers with one of the BEST developed 1.8T remaps in europe. Linear throttle control, smooth boost, no 17705 fault codes related to the map code. We have over 3000 very happy customers running the R-Tech Gen codes and have had many many 10000s of miles of faultless fun.

If your car is already spec1 mapped by another tuner we can provide the map patch for £150 all inc.

If your going from stock to spec1 then the R-Tech gen6 remap will be £200, which includes rolling road session.

All of our spec2 and custom remap will also be based around the R-Tech Gen6 code.

For more information call Nick Gower on 01455 617233

Top lads at r-tech

[Oet]

so did this ever get resolved?

[Poweraderz]

taken from r-tech website

We have been updated with many emails from 1.8T 20v owners which have Golf, Seat & Skoda VRS with the AUM and AUQ engine codes. They have reported issues of there remaps from other tuners causing boost surge and 17705 limp mode / fault codes.

The fault IS based in the OEM mapping and once remapped the fault is highlighted and becomes a really anoying issues when trying to drive the car in a smooth linear style. It took us close on 7 months to produce a map code which was was happy to sell and provide to our customers, this is reflected in our feedback since 2005

We have known about these surge issues since 2004 when we started our development on out Gen3 map code for the later AUM/AUQ map software.

We spent the whole summer in 2005 on out own Skoda 180 AUM VRS mapping out the fault code, the end result was a unique one off custom map ccode unique to the R-Tech gen4 5 and gen6 custom and generic mapping code.

All R-Tech AUM AUQ maps have had the anit surge mapping code loaded since late 2005, which has provied all of our customers with one of the BEST developed 1.8T remaps in europe. Linear throttle control, smooth boost, no 17705 fault codes related to the map code. We have over 3000 very happy customers running the R-Tech Gen codes and have had many many 10000s of miles of faultless fun.

If your car is already spec1 mapped by another tuner we can provide the map patch for £150 all inc.

If your going from stock to spec1 then the R-Tech gen6 remap will be £200, which includes rolling road session.

All of our spec2 and custom remap will also be based around the R-Tech Gen6 code.

For more information call Nick Gower on 01455 617233

Is the only way to reach them via phone? I have been trying to send them emails for months and asking if they can map my ecu and they don't answer :/

[VRS Mike]

Is the only way to reach them via phone? I have been trying to send them emails for months and asking if they can map my ecu and they don't answer :/

They are stupidly busy mate, there is only a handful of employees. Defo best to phone them up

[hazydaze]

It was for me, as detailed here

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/194909-have-you-got-a-boost-surge-after-a-re-map/page__view__findpost__p__2564546

In effect removing the Shark Map and applying the R-Tech map completely removed all traces of surge.

so did this ever get resolved?

[shark_90]

In effect removing the Shark Map and applying the R-Tech map completely removed all traces of surge.

Apart from the ones that show on your dyno plot?

[Oet]

did the other cars get sorted other than hazydaze? think ollie and morgan349 had issues too, what was the solution for for them?

[VRS Mike]

Apart from the ones that show on your dyno plot?

But then he says "The Boost from the R-Tech map is smooth and progressive. I would suggest that the frequency of the variation shown is nothing like the rate of the boost surge that was demonstrated on the Shark map. I believe that this was a Red Herring."

Arse dyno wins everytime

[shark_90]

So long as the customer is happy now that's all that matters. We've mapped scores of Mk1 Octavias without a hint of trouble, but a very small number have experienced this "surging" problem and have posted about it. It's a very small percentage of customers and we have worked with most of them to resolve it (which we have done successfully) and for those who didn't want that, they have had refunds. Some of them have moved to other tuners and been happy, others have moved and still had problems. Some have chased the problem down with their cars and solved it.

[shark_90]

did the other cars get sorted other than hazydaze? think ollie and morgan349 had issues too, what was the solution for for them?

As far as I'm aware Ollie's car is fine after several tests (thanks to Ollie) and I believe morgan349 had a refund.

[andy68]

I had boost surge on my Shark map, but since repairing a couple of breaks in the coil pack loom, it has improved it quite a lot, so once i've fitted my new loom hopefully this problem should be solved

[PaulMoVRS]

I was one of the first members to have the surgeing issue with the shark map. After trying different maps via the sts it was still apparent on my car. As I live so far away from shark's premises ben gave me a full refund on the map but I have no doubt he would of solved it if he had been able to work on my car in person.

I have since moved on to a revo map and seems fine very smooth and pulls well so iam happy enough.

[racingclub]

had my car mapped via STS last week - I am now experiencing 'surge'.

Very annoying as I thought this had been fixed from this thread :(

[pauldazzle]

I've had several different maps on my many VAG 1.8T's & the only 2 that didn't surge were Revo, & ECU-Evolution. A note of interest is that when I had my mkiv Anniversary Revo'd it did surge slightly, & when I spoke to Revo tech support the first thing he asked was did I have a 007P fitted which I did. Much to my surprise he then advised me to refit the OEM 710N DV which I did & yes the surge completely disappeared.

Forum member Billy1281 has just experienced the same thing with his remapped VRS!!

There's such a lot of misinformation spread about having to fit an upgraded DV when remapping, it's utter BS! The OEM 710N DV is fitted to the 225bhp Seats & TT's & easily capable of handling stage 1. Yes it is prone to failure after a while, but you can buy 4 for the price of 1 007P.

Edited 22 November, 2011 by pauldazzle

[racingclub]

I've had several different maps on my many VAG 1.8T's & the only 2 that didn't surge were Revo, & ECU-Evolution. A note of interest is that when I had my mkiv Anniversary Revo'd it did surge slightly, & when I spoke to Revo tech support the first thing he asked was did I have a 007P fitted which I did. Much to my surprise he then advised me to refit the OEM 710N DV which I did & yes the surge completely disappeared.

Forum member Billy1281 has just experienced the same thing with his remapped VRS!!

There's such a lot of misinformation spread about having to fit an upgraded DV when remapping, it's utter BS! The OEM 710N DV is fitted to the 225bhp Seats & TT's & easily capable of handling stage 1. Yes it is prone to failure after a while, but you can buy 4 for the price of 1 007P.

thanks for that, I was thinking about refitting the OEM DV. Now that those damn original clips have disappeared it should be a 2min job.

[rk696]

I've had several different maps on my many VAG 1.8T's & the only 2 that didn't surge were Revo, & ECU-Evolution. A note of interest is that when I had my mkiv Anniversary Revo'd it did surge slightly, & when I spoke to Revo tech support the first thing he asked was did I have a 007P fitted which I did. Much to my surprise he then advised me to refit the OEM 710N DV which I did & yes the surge completely disappeared.

Forum member Billy1281 has just experienced the same thing with his remapped VRS!!

There's such a lot of misinformation spread about having to fit an upgraded DV when remapping, it's utter BS! The OEM 710N DV is fitted to the 225bhp Seats & TT's & easily capable of handling stage 1. Yes it is prone to failure after a while, but you can buy 4 for the price of 1 007P.

Aye, it does my head in when people say you need to 'upgrade' the DV with a map, and how it's prone to breaking. People often forget that the original DV is in some cases, 10 years old, and it bound to be past it's best. And the fact that early 1.8t's had the notorious weak valves, which iirc were never fitted to the vRS anyway.

Another thing that the OEM valve has in it's favour is it's maintenance free, unlike the piston based ones (Admittedly they don't need much), and it has a slightly faster response time, thanks the the frictionless internals and less mass to move. The whole boost control system is designed for the responsiveness of the OEM dv, and you may have minor problems if you go for a piston based one.

However, for high boost applications, I think the best one would be a Forge one, or a diaphragm based APR R1 valve.

Rant over.

p.s. I have a Compbrake piston vave, so have just contradicted everything I said, but I was drawn into the marketing for it, and it's working OK.

Edited 23 November, 2011 by rk696

[Poweraderz]

Aye, it does my head in when people say you need to 'upgrade' the DV with a map, and how it's prone to breaking. People often forget that the original DV is in some cases, 10 years old, and it bound to be past it's best. And the fact that early 1.8t's had the notorious weak valves, which iirc were never fitted to the vRS anyway.

Another thing that the OEM valve has in it's favour is it's maintenance free, unlike the piston based ones (Admittedly they don't need much), and it has a slightly faster response time, thanks the the frictionless internals and less mass to move. The whole boost control system is designed for the responsiveness of the OEM dv, and you may have minor problems if you go for a piston based one.

However, for high boost applications, I think the best one would be a Forge one, or a diaphragm based APR R1 valve.

Rant over.

p.s. I have a Compbrake piston vave, so have just contradicted everything I said, but I was drawn into the marketing for it, and it's working OK.

don't you lose power if you put a DV on a remapped skoda? I talked to revo and they said you lose 20-30bhp with dv.. any opinions

[chicken_eyebrow]

The OEM 710N DV is fitted to the 225bhp Seats & TT's & easily capable of handling stage 1.

Yes it is fitted to those cars but as standard they only run 12psi on the K04 turbo, while a stage 1 map on a VRS is running at least 15psi?

Poweraderz - the car requires a DV to work (otherwise your turbo wouldn't last very long), what Revo probably mean is if you have a badly adjusted or incorrect DV you have a chance of losing 20bhp through boost leaks.