Buying a Fabia Elegance Estate Tonight! – Struggling to decide on TSI or TDI 105PS Engine :(

[indyjones]

Hi all,

My first post ! We are tonight going to buy a Skoda fabia estate, to make use of the no vat discount. However I am still struggling to decide on buying the 1.2TSI or the £800 more expensive 1.6TDI (both @ 105PS).

I was hoping people could give suggestions and some help on this (and apologies for covering old ground).

We live on the isle of Wight and the standard work commute is 10miles either way which takes about 25 mins, though we do intend on using this car for longer journeys which will be 1 -2 times a month. We also intend to keep this car a long time ~10 years maybe more (which is why we are getting it fully loaded).

I have read on here that the TSI does not achieve the quoted MPG, whereas the TDI if you keep the revs higher gets close……

Finally she wants to get it in yellow any one got it is this combo ?

Many Thanks

[Bullyboy]

There are more people likely to offer a more refined answer than I can, however I would suggest if you are doing 12,000 miles a year or less then go for the petrol, over that then the diesel would make more sense purely from a fuel cost factor.

I beleive if you search these forums this question has been asked quite a bit and you will find more details answers.

Good Luck.

[Jeffmaniac]

Agree with Bullyboy with the mileage.

I drove both and found the petrol a lot more responsive so used the money I saved for optional extras. If you are going to keep the car 10 years then make it comfy.

[logiclee]

If you do less than 10000 miles a year go for the petrol, it's a lot more responsive and the lighter weight on the front end makes the car feel more agile.

With the £800 saved why not go for the 7 speed DSG? It's a joy to use and you get full ESP and HHC thrown in.

Cheers

Lee

[Stevoraith]

Here we go again......

Doesn't matter how many miles you do in a year.

If it's the financial side of things you are worrying about (which we are all assuming it is) then you pay the extra cost for a diesel once in your ownership, therefore you need to worry about how many miles you will do in the entire length of time you have the car.

In this case, assuming both cars will achieve Skodas published figures, you will save approx. 2p per mile driving the diesel.

That means you will need to drive 40k miles in the time you have the car to make your money back. I'd imagine you'll do that in 10 years!

A few things which make it not quite as simple though;

1- If you are buying on finance you will need to borrow extra for the diesel so it will cost you extra every month, but it will also save you money on fuel every month so you could start saving from day one (whereas if you pay cash you have to wait until you've covered 40k miles to start saving).

2- Neither car will achieve Skodas figures. Chances are the diesel will get closer, meaning your break even point would be less than the 40k above.

3- You will get more money when you sell the diesel. Meaning that the extra cost of ownership isn't as great and again reducing the break even milage. Of course this may not apply if you keep the car 10 years. Or is you buy a yellow one 'cos no-one will want to buy it anyway :p

Car buying doesn't have to be a purely financial decision though- the 1.2 may well be the sweeter drive and worth the extra long-term outlay. I have no idea, I've never driven either.

[indyjones]

Here we go again......

Doesn't matter how many miles you do in a year.

If it's the financial side of things you are worrying about (which we are all assuming it is) then you pay the extra cost for a diesel once in your ownership, therefore you need to worry about how many miles you will do in the entire length of time you have the car.

In this case, assuming both cars will achieve Skodas published figures, you will save approx. 2p per mile driving the diesel.

That means you will need to drive 40k miles in the time you have the car to make your money back. I'd imagine you'll do that in 10 years!

A few things which make it not quite as simple though;

1- If you are buying on finance you will need to borrow extra for the diesel so it will cost you extra every month, but it will also save you money on fuel every month so you could start saving from day one (whereas if you pay cash you have to wait until you've covered 40k miles to start saving).

2- Neither car will achieve Skodas figures. Chances are the diesel will get closer, meaning your break even point would be less than the 40k above.

3- You will get more money when you sell the diesel. Meaning that the extra cost of ownership isn't as great and again reducing the break even milage. Of course this may not apply if you keep the car 10 years. Or is you buy a yellow one 'cos no-one will want to buy it anyway :p

Car buying doesn't have to be a purely financial decision though- the 1.2 may well be the sweeter drive and worth the extra long-term outlay. I have no idea, I've never driven either.

hahahh cheers for the pop at the colour. No idea on that one its not my decision anyway, and she does not want a dark colour again.

I think we are going to go for the diesel, as I personally feel a 1.2 in a a estate may be pushing it, and the extra torque will help for the overtakes on the road

[pipsyp]

I agree, if you're not doing particularly heavy mileage the 105 TSi will be the one to go for. Is the keener performer and is a touch more refined to boot.

Only reason i'd go for a CR is if you ever plan to use the car for towing, dont think the TSi would be so good due to its relative lack of torque. A small trailer would be fine of course but caravans would really labour the little 1.2.

Spec wise the Elegance is very good, I however would not go wild with the options. Keep it to must haves rather than nice to haves and make the most of the VAT saving. Even though you intend to keep the car for a number of years, things can change and you'll never make your money back on any of the optional extras. Things like MFSW, MDI, Elec rear wins and ESP are all good ideas. Would advise steering clear of big money options like sunroofs and the Sat nav. Unit looks nice but functionally is not great, does not do full post code searches so it would appear a TomTom or Garmin would make a better navigation companion. DSG gearbox is superb and comes with ESP and Hill hold as standard so a good reason to plump for it. Doesnt affect economy or emmissions either.

Colour wise go for something sensible, if you buy an unpopular colour dealer would not want to know come trade in time and would offer you poor trade money for it. Likewise with a private sale no one will want it. Appreciate you will keep the car along time but best to protect yourself just in case.

Just be prepared for a very long wait, currently a 34 week wait for a 1.2 TSi DSG.

Edited 31 March, 2011 by pipsyp

[BossFox]

I think we are going to go for the diesel, as I personally feel a 1.2 in a a estate may be pushing it, and the extra torque will help for the overtakes on the road

I'd go for the diesel if it's a cost based decision, but the 1.2TSI is a great little engine.

You don't need to worry about it pulling an estate car because it pulls our Yeti well and that is bother heavier and has a lot more wind resistance. It's so smooth and quiet passengers think it has stop-start like my Greenline II! Great for lower milage use where cost is not such an issue.

[Mike Austin]

I think we are going to go for the diesel, as I personally feel a 1.2 in an estate may be pushing it, and the extra torque will help for the overtakes on the road

Go for the diesel by all means, but don't under-estimate the 1.2tsi. I have a 2.0i in my Mk.1 and the 1.2tsi is pretty much as good as that, apart from at very low rpm (and the lag, of course). Then I think you should also check out the sound levels inside the car. I used a 1.6CR as a courtesy car recently and found it boomy inside compared to the petrol version. It was not the old clattery sound of diesels, but a more subtle constant low frequency background noise.

[pipsyp]

The 1.2 TSi 105 is the quicker car no question, both on paper and on the road. If you have no towing requirement i'd go for one of those.

[indyjones]

Unfortunatley due to having only one small dealer on the isle of wight I don't think they have any of the common rail diesel cars. As I said we will be keeping it a long while so the whole cost calcs kinda balnce out was just wondering which engine is better suited for the car.

Though the problem is it does seem that its still very opinionated area as some people seem to just prefer petrol or diesel.

My Dad got the new Octavia scout recently with the 140 TDI CR and he would never touch a petrol engine now (simular commuting distance to us too) so again its down to opinions....

Thanks for your comments so far, this seems to be a helpful fourm

[Mike Austin]

Would advise steering clear of big money options like sunroofs and the Sat nav.

The sunroof may be expensive - but it is only £10 more than a tin of paint (compared to the cost of a separate roof colour)! I always go for sunroofs - not only because I like fresh air, but also because it quietens the roof due to extra stiffening. I agree about the Satnav. I can tell that where to go better than it can tell me!

[pipsyp]

The sunroof may be expensive - but it is only £10 more than a tin of paint (compared to the cost of a separate roof colour)! I always go for sunroofs - not only because I like fresh air, but also because it quietens the roof due to extra stiffening. I agree about the Satnav. I can tell that where to go better than it can tell me!

Sure it's all in the eye of the beholder, some people would say a sunroof is a must have. I like them but havent had one in a car for years and havent missed not having one. They tend to rob a bit of headroom and is something else to go wrong. It leaking or getting stuck open at some stage would worry me too.

[BossFox]

The diesel comes with a DPF, are you going to be doing enough long trips to get it hot enough for regeneration?

Because to me 10 miles each way to work and living on the Isle of Wight means there is not a lot of oppertunities to get your foot down. DPFs like a run now and again to get hot and burn off the particulate deposits.

If it does have a DPF and you are not getting it hot enough = possible garage bills.

Oh and get ESP if it's not inculded.

This is basic safety kit and should be included in all new cars IMHO. It's a way for Skoda to bump the price up, but it's still essential in my opinion. Far more than a sunroof anyway, which I'd never use.

[indyjones]

The diesel comes with a DPF, are you going to be doing enough long trips to get it hot enough for regeneration?

Because to me 10 miles each way to work and living on the Isle of Wight means there is not a lot of oppertunities to get your foot down. DPFs like a run now and again to get hot and burn off the particulate deposits.

If it does have a DPF and you are not getting it hot enough = possible garage bills.

Oh and get ESP if it's not inculded.

This is basic safety kit and should be included in all new cars IMHO. It's a way for Skoda to bump the price up, but it's still essential in my opinion. Far more than a sunroof anyway, which I'd never use.

I was a little worried about the DPF, but on my Dad's scout which he does basically a very simular trip in he has not had any issues so not worried anymore.

Was not going to bother with ESP is it that worth it ?

[horkin]

Nice one...New Fabia It may be an old chestnut, diesel V's petrol, but it's always interesting to read the replies. Personally I bought the one I could afford and am delighted with mine. I suspect you know which model you prefer and if it were me I'd go for that. There are real advantages in having a diesel but only if you do high mileages, otherwise the petrol is going to work out a bit cheaper. You pay a premium for buying diesel, some of which is recouped when you sell. Diesels are noisier, according to some reviews a lot noisier but are a much stronger engine. Set against that the TSI is great and being a much lighter lump does feel more nimble. The estate is a superb car as it is so practical. Personally I think the true difference is minimal for every day family use. Just buy the one you fancy and I hope you love it to bits. Good luck.

[indyjones]

Nice one...New Fabia It may be an old chestnut, diesel V's petrol, but it's always interesting to read the replies. Personally I bought the one I could afford and am delighted with mine. I suspect you know which model you prefer and if it were me I'd go for that. There are real advantages in having a diesel but only if you do high mileages, otherwise the petrol is going to work out a bit cheaper. You pay a premium for buying diesel, some of which is recouped when you sell. Diesels are noisier, according to some reviews a lot noisier but are a much stronger engine. Set against that the TSI is great and being a much lighter lump does feel more nimble. The estate is a superb car as it is so practical. Personally I think the true difference is minimal for every day family use. Just buy the one you fancy and I hope you love it to bits. Good luck.

Thank you

[Bullyboy]

Keep us posted on what you decide/did today....

[BossFox]

Was not going to bother with ESP is it that worth it ?

Like most other things it's personal preference.

But if you go into a corner too fast and have to brake or you end up doing a last minute swerve to avoid something it 'could' be the difference between staying on the road and not.

It's the kind of thing that you only need if you are unlucky later.

Good luck with your order tonight.

[logiclee]

If you have decided on the diesel that's fine, it's a great car but as others have said dont worry about the 1.2TSi feeling underpowered, it's torque at the wheels that determines how fast a car accelerates and the petrol has far lower gearing than the diesel. It also produces a pretty decent amount of torque, a 2.0 petrol Mondeo manages 140lbft at it's torque peak and that's only when the engines spinning at 4500rpm. The 1.2TSi's produces just a bit less than the 2.0 Mondeo at 132lbft but all that torque is available from just 1550rpm and it maintains that level of torque all the way to past 4000rpm. That in the little Fabia makes for an entertaining drive, it's certainly quicker than the 1.6TDi 105 and quicker than my wifes 1.9PD 105 Fabia. With the 7 speed DSG flicking through the gears it will suprise quite a lot of more powerfull machinery from the lights.

As for towing. Anyone considering anything other than a camping trailer or jet ski needs to look at something bigger than a Fabia.

Cheers

Lee

[indyjones]

Well back to square one been up there and despite being told they are open till 6 which they are, they only take orders for new vehicles till 5! Guess we need to see what the next offer is........

[BossFox]

Well hopefully some offer will continue. The no VAT one has gone past it's deadline a few times now and still carried on...

[Ad Lav]

You can order a Monte on VAT off until 3rd April on the website

[delta925]

When comparing long term costs of 1.2TSi 105 to 1.6TDi CR 105 or 1.2TSi 85 to 1.6TDi CR 90 remember at current rates the RFL for the diesel is £20pa and the petrol is £90pa.

Hence providing the differential stays the same in real terms over 10 years the current £70pa saving roughly pays the higher purchase price of the diesel. Without this difference I would have bought the petrol and maybe the DSG despite adding another 10 weeks to the wait for delivery.

So long as the percentage difference between petrol and diesel price per litre does not increase the fuel cost for diesel will work out significantly cheaper over 10years.

Also note the November 2010 manual supplement included the requirement to use 98RON petrol for full performance, but hardly an issue on the IOW.

Only a couple of months after I ordered when I joined this site did I become aware of the DPF issues.

My daily commute is 11 miles with just over half on dual carriageway and in the winter I rarely do significantly longer journeys. It can be heavy traffic in the morning but normally it runs 60-70mph for the first part then 45-50mph for the last mile or so.

Coming home the faster part is last so more time for engine to warm up and if needed do the regen. If I become aware a regen is happening I can stay on dual carriageway for another couple of miles. I am hoping for no DPF issues needing a 20mile run occasionally for no reason, time will tell as I have only had the car a week.

However with slower speeds on IOW and lack of opportunities for fast runs to clear it DPF could be more of a problem, so petrol is the safe option.

I ordered the basic ESP option but if I had known then rather than finding out just before Christmas when I got stuck in snow actually you need to turn ESP off to keep moving I would not have bothered.

If they don't start some new offers of significant discount I think sales will dry up.

I consider my car at £13500 good value but at £16500 plenty of competition, while I would not have bought new but rather 3 year old used.

[seboni121]

Well back to square one been up there and despite being told they are open till 6 which they are, they only take orders for new vehicles till 5! Guess we need to see what the next offer is........

indyjones ,good welsh name that!:wonder:well I have the elegance 1.6crtdi 105bhp and its awesome,a cracker great fuel consumption easy get 60mpg,pulls like a tank it will be great on the hills in the isle of wight ,I am pretty sure you've lost the vat offer now but still a better car than the polo or A1,here's my baby and she is lovely