FAO All the experts who claim cant get over 220 bhp on standard nozzles..

[wja96]

Given that it is no accepted that you can get more than 220bhp with the standard injectors, Isn't the really interesting thing here that JabbaSport apparently have a piece of hardware or combination of hardware that increases power by 15% (30bhp)? That's a lot!

[faboka vrs]

I don't believe so, because the whole set up is designed to make the power it does. (which we now know it does!)

By adding more power you'll probably be running the kit over what it's designed to, so you'll compromise reliability.

Any one know what the AFR is throughout the rev range? Their might be enough air in certain ranges to add more fuel. Also if it smokes then larger injectors can be used to reduce smoke but keep the same power.

[sepulchrave]

Wow, this thread has really started going places now that the odious gloating fanboi s**tpoasting has finally subsided.

Warwick, JabbaSport I'm sorry that I didn't believe your original dyno readings but the results were too far in excess of what was thought to be possible.

It's to your credit that you have both been so mature and reasonable about it.

Clearly Jabba are onto something here which knocks the ball out of the park and one can hardly blame them for not sharing their hard-won commercial and technical advantage.

However I have two questions:

1) Is the engine running a completely standard camshaft?

2) Have the standard injectors been modified in any way?

It would be nice if this thread could stay clean and technical because it's going to be getting a lot of attention from across the pond.

[fabdavrav]

Was out.....then I noticed that this thread was still going around in ever decreasing circles...

SO.....I did a bit of digging...and have compiled the folowing lists of the specs of both the Warwick Hunt/OP car and the Friggerpants cars. The information I got from JabbaSport, & Darkside Developments websites, and from what has been posted on Briskoda on these two cars!

The main argument has been that people with similar spec cars to the WH/OP car don't get the 260BHP and are limited to 220BHP due to the standard injectors. As has been proven beyond any doubt by both Shark and JabbaSport Dyno plots...It is possiable to get 260 on standard injectors! Also as stated from their website JabbaSport DO NOT MODIFY the engine internals!

CONCLUSSION

As has been stated before.......JabbaSport obviously make/pick the best of each component and fine tune them, so that each incremental gain adds up! Then they do their nice secret work to the engine map which makes the most of their components and hey presto 260BHP!!! BUT....I hear you shout the cars appear to have similar specs so how come 30-40BHP out????........Well...easy really.....since when has a tyre been just a tyre???? A Conti' may be better for your car/style/setup/etc than a Toyo or Pirelli....same applies here....lots of long term fine tunning.....the devil is in the details!!!!

So to all those still bleating......either go and complain to the people that you bought your kit from who state that passing the 220BHP mark can't be done on standard injectors...... or go and buy all the same mechanical bits from JabbaSport and then fit them....then go to Darkside (or whoever) and get them to write a map for it......THEN and only then will you know how much the JabbaSport mechanical bits increase the BHP...the rest will be in their secret map info!!! (this last one is probabley impossiable as the Stage 3 kit includes JabbaSport remapping it!)

WARWICK HUNT/OP CAR ENGINE SPEC

JabbaSport Ltd.

JabbaSport now offer a full range of Pump-Deuce turbo kits to suit many drivers and driving styles ranging from 200bhp to 260bhp without engine modifications.

Stage 3 - 245-250BHP + 15-20BHP with optional Boost Cooler® water/methanol kit. Some of the items listed below are "extra" to the basic Stage 3 kit!

•JabbaSport 8V Diesel Exhaust Manifold

•JabbaSport Custom Garret Turbocharger

•JabbaSport De-Cat Downpipe

•Turbo Back De-Cat Exhaust System

•Pro-Alloy Front Mount Intercooler

•Larger Air Mass Sensor

•JabbaSport Anti-Surge System

•Elephant Hose mod

•ERG Disconnect

•Helix Performance Clutch Kit and SMF

•Peloquin LSD

•JabbaSport Custom Remap

•Jabbasport file runs 100% standard SOI map, and almost 80 degree duration request.

•Water meth injection for raising the power as and when (not used on Dyno runs)

258.0BHP & 391.6Ft/Lbs – Dyno Proven @ Shark Performance

FRIGGERPANTS CAR ENGINE SPEC

Darkside Developments

Darkside GTB2260VK Turbo Kit

•Garrett GTB Turbocharger with VNT17 Lever Conversion

•Stainless Steel upper boost pipe

•SeatSport FMIC with 2" Stainless Hard Pipe Work

•Ibiza Cupra PD160 Snorkel

•Allard EGR valve Delete

•4 BAR MAP Sensor

•Darkside 3†Stainless Downpipe with Stainless 4" Flexi and Dual Fitment Flange

•Milltek 2.5" Exhaust System with decat

•Stainless Tubular Exhaust Manifold

•Darkside Re-Map with MAF and EGR Delete

•Brand New Vacuum Actuator

•Silicone Turbo Inlet Pipe Connector Hose

•Engine breather vented to atmosphere

•Helix single mass flywheel conversion with Organic Clutch

227.3BHP & 357Ft/Lbs – Dyno Proven @ Shark Performance

ENJOY!!!....

Edited 4 November, 2011 by fabdavrav

[xa0sx]

I'd love to know Darkside Developments thoughts on this as I keep considering a 2260...

[Guest BigJase88]

I think the seat sport fmic could lose a few ponies with it being a twin pass that was originally designed for a 150/160 bhp car

[sepulchrave]

towering wall of guesswork...

I wasn't asking you because you can't know.

I'm not asking Warwick either, he just wrote the cheques.

I'm simply asking JabbaSport for straight yes/no type answers since they developed this engine.

Ok.

[andypandypoos]

I think the seat sport fmic could lose a few ponies with it being a twin pass that was originally designed for a 150/160 bhp car

technically, it was designed for a 160/180PS car :p

I totally agree with/understand Jabba keeping schtum if they know something nobody else seems to, but a straight yes/no about the car running bog standard PD130 injectors would still be interesting

[fabdavrav]

Quote fabdavrav

towering wall of guesswork...

End Quote

However I have two questions:

1) Is the engine running a completely standard camshaft? ......DUH.......YES

2) Have the standard injectors been modified in any way? ......Double DUH......NO

I wasn't asking you because you can't know.

I'm not asking Warwick either, he just wrote the cheques.

I'm simply asking JabbaSport for straight yes/no type answers since they developed this engine.

Ok.

DON'T EVER MIS-QUOTE ME AGAIN! :no:

ALL THAT I HAVE DONE IS COLLATE ALL THE INFO FROM BOTH JABBA'S AND DARKSIDE'S WEBSITES...ALONG WITH WHAT THE CAR OWNERS HAVE POSTED UP HERE ON BRISKODA.....HOW THE #### IS THAT GUESSWORK AS TO THE MECHANICS OF THE CAR?????

YOU AGAIN PROVE THAT YOU DON'T WANT HELP TO YOUR ANSWERS/AND ARE JUST STIRING THINGS, OR HOW STUPID YOU ARE AS IS QUITE CLEARLY STATES ON JABBA'S WEBSITE "JabbaSport now offer a full range of Pump-Deuce turbo kits to suit many drivers and driving styles ranging from 200bhp to 260bhp without engine modifications."

[andypandypoos]

totally ot, but why do you keep saying warwick hunt/op? warwick hunt is the op

[sepulchrave]

u mad bro?

[fabdavrav]

totally ot, but why do you keep saying warwick hunt/op? warwick hunt is the op

Yeah I know he is the OP on this thread..but he was refering to the lad he sold his car to (the current owner of his old red Fabia vRS)....so he was almost doing on behalf of him...in a third party sense.......if you get my drift??? :S

totally ot???.......that was me holding back and being polite.......I can really tear strips off if you want??? .......but really I don't want to as it isn't good for this site!!

P.S.....Caps lock did get a bit stuck didn't it??.......Oppps!

[wilsy7]

I thought twin pass intercoolers were meant to be better?

[vindaloo]

I thought twin pass intercoolers were meant to be better?

The devil is in the details regarding i/c cores. Though IMO a twin pass does introduce an additional set of inefficiencies as it asks the air to organise/reorganise itself twice on entry/exit.

[TorqueXIsXCheap]

DON'T EVER MIS-QUOTE ME AGAIN! :no:

ALL THAT I HAVE DONE IS COLLATE ALL THE INFO FROM BOTH JABBA'S AND DARKSIDE'S WEBSITES...ALONG WITH WHAT THE CAR OWNERS HAVE POSTED UP HERE ON BRISKODA.....HOW THE #### IS THAT GUESSWORK AS TO THE MECHANICS OF THE CAR?????

YOU AGAIN PROVE THAT YOU DON'T WANT HELP TO YOUR ANSWERS/AND ARE JUST STIRING THINGS, OR HOW STUPID YOU ARE AS IS QUITE CLEARLY STATES ON JABBA'S WEBSITE "JabbaSport now offer a full range of Pump-Deuce turbo kits to suit many drivers and driving styles ranging from 200bhp to 260bhp without engine modifications."

+1

No tuner in there right mind will post a reply saying "Yer this is how we have our competitive edge on the market!" The fact that a company like shark go, "Pah its impossible!" and for jabba to just sit back and leave it bee, shows the class of these guys.

It seems if you want expert tuning for a PD engine and get the most poines it seems that Jabba very much know what there doing, and in a league of there own.

We simply need to look at BossFox's stunning Jabba'd example. To show the class of there work.

People need to stop expecting a reply from them to explain how they do what they do. Its there in black and white, and people can pick detail to detail out of the dyno graph's. It still shows what is the TRUTH! Ive never in my time seen a forum that goes on and on about something like this, espically when the facts are on the table.

Its like haters dont want people to run there fabia's above xxxbhp... Its just crazy.

[vindaloo]

IMO the issue shouldn't be one of 230 or 260 BHP. The standard nozzles are small.. Beyond a certain point they WILL limit power. I don't care if that's at 230 or 260 hp. If everyone's aiming at 300+, why bicker about 30hp underneath the floorboards?

J.

[sepulchrave]

Are you fanbois trying to **** this place up or what? Stop being so retarded.

Why are you trying to answer questions addressed to other people, what's the matter with you? Some of us want to understand how something thought to be technically impossible by the VW PDI tuning community worldwide has been achieved. It's not like I'm telling everyone to fit aftermarket filters which can wreck their delicate turbo's!

I simply want yes/no answers, I wouldn't dream of asking Jabba to divulge commercially sensitive information.

[andypandypoos]

totally ot???

my comment/question was ot

[shark_90]

But it is theoretically impossible, so either the injectors/nozzles are modified or it's running on the meth mix. There's no "Pah" from us, just sound theory.

[Jabbasport]

However I have two questions:

1) Is the engine running a completely standard camshaft?

2) Have the standard injectors been modified in any way?

The camshaft is completely standard.

The standard injectors are as they left the factory. No modifications.

There's no point modifying a part and not charging the customer for it, if we'd changed or modified something it'd be on their invoice.

The only "addition" to the fuel system is the water/meth kit. On diesel only runs we usually see 250-260bhp, this was our fuelling limit and the addition of water/methanol usually shows up to a 10bhp gain.

[fabdavrav]

my comment/question was ot

Opps! ..Sorry!.........actual fact your comment was in topic and valid........just when you put "ot" i thought you meant "over the top" refering to my previous post....but that would have been "OTT"...where as you put "ot" (off topic)and meant it!

[opentoideas]

But it is theoretically impossible, so either the injectors/nozzles are modified or it's running on the meth mix. There's no "Pah" from us, just sound theory.

Silly question, since reality and theory don't seem to match...

Has anyone actually measured the real world injectors performance? Could it just be that the injectors deliver above spec?

Probably already been done but it could account for the discrepancy.

[fabdavrav]

Are you fanbois trying to **** this place up or what? Stop being so retarded.

Why are you trying to answer questions addressed to other people, what's the matter with you? Some of us want to understand how something thought to be technically impossible by the VW PDI tuning community worldwide has been achieved. It's not like I'm telling everyone to fit aftermarket filters which can wreck their delicate turbo's!

I simply want yes/no answers, I wouldn't dream of asking Jabba to divulge commercially sensitive information.

Retarded?.....eh???? :wonder:

Well you should notice that JabbaSport have replied directly to your questions.........and have given you the same answers that I gave you and that Warwick Hunt has been saying as well!!!

Seeing as though YOU DO NOT want to take sensiable FACTUAL advice and information from us on BRISKODA and instead state "we can't know the facts etc"......I suggest in future that you DO NOT ASK us any further questions and waste our time.......instead just email directly the manufactures concerned!!!

[shark_90]

Come on chaps lets put the handbags away. This is a great thread which shouldn't be tarnished with personal feuds, and however Jabbasport do it, they have produced the figures so good on them

[furby-le]

Ive been following this from the very start and find it quite amazing how the forum is being brought down over a bit of power. If money is no limit anything is possible and there will always be someone out there with a faster car, why cant people just be happy with what they've got? In work everybody does things slightly different so theres allways going to be a difference in the finished article, plus no two cars are really the same. For instance the BLT generaly produces a little more power than the ASZ engine. Could this be a reason for the higher bhp in WH's old car? Along with the few other differences, main one being the work was done by jabba.