I Just Want It To Stop...

[ColinD]

Okay a post about Brakes!

I doubt I can really push the car in normal driving (public) roads to a point where I've really knackered/faded the braking. However I do feel that I need more stopping power overall. Any driving on public roads that is not giving the discs chance to cool is fairly hard and possibly a bit reckless. But hard driving on public roads needs a good amount of stopping power, which I don't feel she is yeidling just yet.

Okay that said I want to and will use her on track, so I know they really are not good enough in stock guise (stock now = ds2500 fronts and super dot4.1 fluid). So the 4x4 has the vented fronts, and single solid rear disc (Size:312x25 and 256x12 I think). Fronts to be the same as the RS, rears sadly common to most mkIV's

Options since I'm 99% sure that the rear assembly from an S3/TT/4 Motion (the one I cast an eye under) would be a straight factory fittment. Condsidering an article in the States where TT brakes were fitted to a 1.8T golf FWD. So as I see it the options below are my roadmap:

1. Replace stock discs with grp N ones, slotted (maybe drilled) with a good set of pads , (presently fronts are the ds2500 and rears are well Skoda's best.

2. Look for TT/S3 rotors/carrier and use grp N (now vented) on the rears, amybe considering uprated braking offerigns for these vehicles.

3. Grp N rears and some sodding big uns on the front and say hello to my rear every now and again.

4. Sell it and buy the Leon Type R brembo kit and walk to work

Okay so the last option is not that sensible, but the others are.

The options as I have listed to me actually seem slighlty procedural, i.e. if I find the disc change to be lacking, proceed to option 2 or 3 as option 1 can be sold on (except rears as they don't fit much). This is really an uprated system for track usage, on the road it does stop; well we all want to stop a bit quicker now don't we.

Thoughts?

Anybody happen to know any good VAG breakers?

Spent a good while looking over sites tonight, shame I don't own a BMW...

There's a nice bit at the bottom about 1.8TT testing, and to save you looking:

Snip...

>(6/99- SportAuto did a comparative test of stock vs Movit brakes on

>an Audi 1.8TT. They did consecutive high speed stops with each setup, cold

>and warm from 200km. With the stock brakes, the first stop from 200km/h

>yielded rotors temps of 417C front & 278C rear.....the Movit brakes were

>150C front & 97C rear. By the time they did the 5th stop from 200km/h, the

>stock rotors were at 600+C both front and rear with flames coming front the

>front hub assembly...testing was suspended. With the Movit brakes at the

>10th consecutive 200km/h stop, rotor temps were only 356C front & 169C

>rear. Now this really doesn't mean much here in the states as there's

>little chance these cars will be driven at drivers schools where you'd be

>doing this kind of high speed braking. It is significant in Germany.)

It's not even significant in Germany. Who makes consecutive stops from

124mph time after time ANYWHERE?

Five stops from 124mph without a chance for any cool down time, you don't

even have those extremes on the track (at least any track I've been to).

Big brake kits are great for the track but a total waste on the street

unless the motive is to look cool. I've yet to see anyone use up stock

brakes while out for a drive on public roads, if so, they should be locked up.

The brakes on both my '95 M3 and my S4 are both fantastic on the street

with the edge going to the S4's twin piston 4 pad units. They are fantastic.

On the track I'm sure they both need upgrading with Pads at a minimum and

possibly a big brake kit to get the last little bit of performance.

Snip...

Which is Why I strongly suspect option 1 alone should do the trick, since heat is our enemy! But equally open to suggestions...ps to keep the 16" rims would be nice, but not adverse to filling them to; well as Jon said "fag paper tollerance".

[Stimps]

Are you going to have a little parachute which gets deployed when you really need to brake suddenly?

[redbaron]

vRS rears and group N front would do the job.. my std vRS brakes took 50+ laps of croft with no warp or fade - i know Jon swears by the group N fronts - good enough for the ring...

and they will fit behing 16" wheels - as they did/ do on RS combis

[Stuart_J]

Colin,

If you find a breaker for the rears ask if he has 2 sets & let me know, I will do the same for you.

Also does anyone know if the A4 rears will fit as Ive found a bent A4

Re choices, I went for the bigger front option as I have been told this gives more feel wheras the uprated standards tend to be a bit Grabby.

They also look good, I would post pics if I had any idea how to

Stuart

[Chrille]

Am I missing something? The rear brakes on the vRS are exactly the same 256mm vented as on the TT225, V6-4M, and S3. :confused:

[philc]

If the 4X4 rears are the same as the L&K, then it's quite easy to get them to fade in brisk, normal use. I had fade after a cross country thrash, and also when driving in the high Pyrenees, on "switchback" roads.

Even with the standard engine, it felt underbraked compared to the RS.

Phil

[ColinD]

Phil,

they are the skinny rear single disc jobbies as per a normal FWD Golf/L&K/Octavia.

I think mine don't fade on open roads at present because I'm using some better fluid than stock. It's the castrol super dot 4.1, so I guess your findings and mine indicate that that's helping a fair bit.

Of course it could be because I drive like a granny...

[devonutopia]

Originally posted by ColinD in this post

Of course it could be because I drive like a granny...

And exactly what kind of psycho granny have you been a passenger with, Colin? The aching in my neck has just about subsided now, but the grin always returns when I look back... yet again

[TaviaRS]

OI! I'm the one who drives like a granny!

Brakes? Not really had a look at the non-RS ones so don't know much about them. I think you'd need the calliper and disc to get it to work properly on the rear. On the front you'd need the mount of the bottom of the strut to push the calliper out further.

Why do I keep dreaming about 18" wheels and some 385mm 6 pot APS or Alcons?

[SkodiRS]

Am I correct in thinking that replacing my front pads with DS2500 would be more than adequate for road use and the"once in a blue moon" track session?

Cheers.

Adrian.

p.s Jon are you seeing Disco before Tuesday? I'm thinking of getting some DS2500 and wondered if I could ask you to bring them with you upto to Jabba on Tuesday (if I get them and if it's ok with you)?

[TaviaRS]

If he hasn't got any in stock or can't get any in time, I've got some in my garage so could bring them up. He may actually be coming up with me anyway.

Yes, the DS2500 are fine for road use, they also cope very well with track days, its what I always (well unless I go mad and put 3000s on )run road and track. No problems so far. I would recommend changing the fluid as well though as you will generate a fair bit of heat.

Jon

[SkodiRS]

Thanks Jon.

You've PM.

cHEERS.

aDRIAN.

[Doc]

Originally posted by ColinD in this post

Okay a post about Brakes!

I doubt I can really push the car in normal driving (public) roads to a point where I've really knackered/faded the braking.

I've yet to see anyone use up stock

brakes while out for a drive on public roads, if so, they should be locked up.

Snip...

Tell that to the old bloke I saw last month halfway down porlock hill in Somerset with smoke pouring from the front brakes of his 4 year old lexus.

I certainly managed to fade the brakes on my impreza driving on twisty hilly B roads with lots of acceleration on short straights before heavy braking to go round corners at a sane speed.

The enemy is heat build up and the biggest problem is having cast iron calipers. These take ages to cool down and lead to the pads retaining more heat and boiling of the brake fluid even if you use DOT 5.

All the impreza big brake kits rely on alloy calipers as well as higher spec pads, discs and fluid.

I seriously doubt you could drive constantly on track with just uprated pads and fluid + group N discs unless it had some very long straights to allow cooling but you would probably be able to manage a couple of hot laps and then a cool down lap.

[TaviaRS]

Doc,

I beg to differ, sorry.

In the last 18-20 months mine has done over 8,000 track miles. I am running the grp N+ discs, silkolene pro-race 2000 fluid and , normally, DS2500 pads although I have been known to run DS3000. I believe that Donington is known as fairly tough on brakes. Mine can quite happily do 20 laps of the full circuit with absolutely no fade whatsoever, come in and have a 5-10 min break and do it again.

It'll quite happily do 3-5 miles over Epynt at P1 speeds with no fade. The scoob behind me lost his brakes within a mile of the start and the P1 on AP6 pots was starting to struggle.

I've also done 20 laps round Castle Combe at a reasonable pace (1'25"-1'35" laps), non-stop, and no fade.

I have tried to fade them but have failed so far.

Jon

[Delcac]

Originally posted by Doc in this post

I seriously doubt you could drive constantly on track with just uprated pads and fluid + group N discs unless it had some very long straights to allow cooling but you would probably be able to manage a couple of hot laps and then a cool down lap.

With words like doubt and probably you must be an ex scoob owner (like myself), next you'll be telling us the Scooby goes round bends better.:nono:

Des

[redbaron]

Doc, did 50+ laps at croft on std pads and discs... in 8 lap stints... (+2 when we had a slow puncture for those that want the gory details...) no fade no warping no props... the group n's raise this limit further... the vRS brakes are great

[Stuart_J]

3 laps of Imola & by Scoob STI 3 was developing a spongy pedal, dont know if it would have got worse had I carried on, came in after the 4th lap (slow down lap) & the head gasket let go in the pits. So much for scoob reliabilty

[redbaron]

oh dear... a long way back on a recovery truck?

[Stuart_J]

Good old Barclays insurance, Paid for all the hire cars & got the scoob back 3 weeks later totally undamaged & nothing nicked

[Doc]

I guess with the lower speeds in the skoda you just aren't putting so much stress on the brakes

[Doc]

and yes I am another ex scooby owner but I've really gone to the dark side with a 130pd estate. 25000 miles a year in the scoob is a bit wallet crippling.

[Stuart_J]

Doc

I did about 12000 a year in the scoob & I now class that as financial suicide, the car averaged less than 20 mpg on Optimax + Octane booster & seemed to visit the garage on a regular basis including the legendary number 3 cylinder failure

As for Skuds being slower than Scoobs, I suggest you talk to a few of the people who have tried to keep up with TaviaRS on the track & you will find a Skud can be as qick if not quicker than a Scoob & he is still using std single pot callipers

Stuart

[Doc]

Stuart I was joking!

I wouldn't have bought a skoda if I didn't rate them I'm just surprised you can't cook your brakes.

[redbaron]

I can catergorically confirm that a vRS can be faster than Scoobys;)

and Formula Fords, and Carlton GSi and Sapphire Cossies etc:rofl: