Airbags on vrs

[CharlieB72]

Hello. I looked at airbags on the brochure and it is confusing. I think the curtain airbag, as standard, goes across the back side windows too although in the brochure it reads as if the curtain airbag is for the front side windows. The rear side airbags you pay extra for can't be ordered separately from the Crew Protection Assistant package although it looks like you can order the airbags separately, on the car configurator.

can anyone give me a definitive answer on what airbags you get as standard in the rear of the car and what extra airbags you can pay for and at what price? I trust you lot more than the dealer!

[JoseDB]

Googling 'Octavia curtain airbag' there are a couple of images of them deployed on Octy3's and they do appear to extend across the rear windows too, for sure the rear side air bags are an option on the vRS and are only in conjunction with the crew protection assistant package (despite appearing as a separate option as you say).

[TomLux]

I was very curious about this since I wanted the crew protection extra, but was worried since we have the child seats in the rear. I was assured by my dealer that the curtains which cover the windows are standard and deploy the front and rear windows. The side airbags in the crew protection extra are equivalent to the side airbags in the front seats and cover the area from your bum to your shoulders (aproximately).

On a separate note both SKODA and SEAT dealers advised us not to take the crew protection extra with the rear side airbags when fitting child seats. I followed the advice though I would have liked the panorama roof to close by itself in case of an accident (which is one of the features of the crew protect extra.)

[kallekilponen]

On a separate note both SKODA and SEAT dealers advised us not to take the crew protection extra with the rear side airbags when fitting child seats.

Really?? Protecting child occupants is usually stated as the reason rear side airbags exist.

 

Surely the side airbags are designed to work with properly fitted isofix child seats.

Edited 17 January, 2015 by kallekilponen

[Orville]

It may be similar to how front airbags risk suffocating or crushng the occupants of front/rear facing child seats. If the airbag explodes beneath or to the front of the child seat it can launch the child upwards or backwards. If it explodes to the side of the child's head it may cause severe burns, break necks or cause head trauma if the child seat does not give. In many cases a good child seat will provide more protection than an airbag, or an airbag plus child seat.

Edited 17 January, 2015 by Orville

[themanwithnoaim]

This one is choice for the individual parents concerned, I'm in the camp that thinks airbags being deployed in car crashes saves more than it endangers and include children in car seats in that statement, you however may have a diffent opinion which you can action within your choice of options for your car.

 

I won't tell any other parents they're wrong in their choice and would like to think that nobody else would attempt to inform me likewise and I sincerely hope none of us every need find out.

[TomLux]

Really?? Protecting child occupants is usually stated as the reason rear side airbags exist.

Surely the side airbags are designed to work with properly fitted isofix child seats.

But that's the thing, no car-manufacturer promotes the rear side-airbags as additional child protection compatible with child seats (at least skoda and seat don't). In fact from what I could find child seats were never mentioned. I completely agree that for adults it's useful.

Since I have thankfully never witnessed a car crash where child seats were "confronted" to side airbag (or without)I can't say. That's why I relied on the opinion of the guys who sell the cars and should know best what the usefulness is. Strangely enough they advised against adding a pricey extra. I also did a bit of research on the net and there seems to be no clear consensus. Some child seat manufacturers say there should be no problem, others completely ignore the side-airbag part and only mention the front airbag.

It also depends on what kind of child seat you are talking about. I have a toddler of 12 months, he will be in one of those rather large, well protected seats for quite some time. Now if you are talking about a 6 year old that only sits on one of those raising seats but has no side protection, I would assume that the protection from the side-airbag is the same as for the adult in the front, and were I in that position then I would have chosen the option.

I was worried (and many of the comments on the net and feedback from dealers I got) was that when the airbag deploys and the childseat is very close to the door that this could potentially cause problems with the fixation of the seat (not necessarily projecting the seat with the kid through the cabin, but still)

Now I would, as any sane parent, never jeopardise the safety and well-being of my kid, so from the information I had I took the best decision I could.

But to be honest I'm counting on not having a crash at all and when I do I hope it's one of the 60 something percent where it's either front or rear-crash, where cars are most stable and never a side-crash.

Edited 17 January, 2015 by TomLux

[kallekilponen]

It may be similar to how front airbags risk suffocating or crushng the occupants of front/rear facing child seats. If the airbag explodes beneath or to the front of the child seat it can launch the child upwards or backwards. If it explodes to the side of the child's head it may cause severe burns, break necks or cause head trauma if the child seat does not give. In many cases a good child seat will provide more protection than an airbag, or an airbag plus child seat.

Modern cars usually either disable the front airbag if a child seat is used in the front passenger seat or forbid installing a child seat on the seat in the first place. I'd assume the same would apply to the rear seat if the car manufacturer deemed it necessary. (And lets not forget some manufacturers have all airbags as standard.)

...I'm in the camp that thinks airbags being deployed in car crashes saves more than it endangers and include children in car seats in that statement...

That's my impression as well.

 

Seems like a similar situation than when someone on my first aid course asked if there's a risk of breaking ribs while giving CPR. The first aid teacher (firefighter) replied: "Sure you can break a rib or two, but a couple of broken ribs are still a small inconvenience compared to the person dying if you don't perform CPR as instructed."

 

I'd also imagine that if side airbags truly endangered child occupants it would have been noticed in tests like EuroNCAP. Until I see some compelling evidence to the contrary I'd prefer to trust that the engineers knew what they were doing when designing safety features in modern cars.

 

But that's the thing, no car-manufacturer promotes the rear side-airbags as additional child protection compatible with child seats (at least skoda and seat don't). In fact from what I could find child seats were never mentioned. I completely agree that for adults it's useful.

It's possible they don't promote it to avoid any possible liability caused by an incompatible seat.

 

The protection of child seats can vary heavily between different seats, as has been evident in numerous tests:

 

TCS

 

ADAC

 

RACE

[TomLux]

As I said I took the decision based on the facts I had, the fact that I cannot disable the rear side-airbags was one of the reasons I didn't chose them in the end (could I have switched them off, then I would ahve used that option till the little one has a different seat and enable them at that point). I agree with your assessment though that if it were truly that dangerous drivers have to be able to disable, the fact that it doesn't seems to indicate that all should be fine.

But we can argue as much as we want: Since my car is being built on monday (or at least that week), I can't change anything at this point. For the next car when we are all much wiser and the kids are grown up the problem with the childseat is mute and the option will be added without a doubt.

Until then I have to rely on my driving skills, the front assist option of the car and the quality of the childseat. After reading through 100s of tests we chose the Roemer / Britax duo plus which was specifically chosen as it had good side protection in german crash tests (contrary to the more pratical seat we chose in the first place). And since the Octy and the Scirocco have the top tether third isofix point I also bought that extra for fixing the the seat.

Edited 18 January, 2015 by TomLux

[hobbie2k]

I have an 18 month old (but very small for her age) and she'll be rear-facing for a while yet, meaning the extra airbags may be a risk for her. I also have a 7 year-old who would get extra protection from them. We decided to get them because we figured the period of time in which the airbags would be a benefit is much greater than the period they represent a risk.

Modern front airbags have weight and seat position sensors that determine when an occupant would be placed at risk by a deployment, and the airbag is adjusted (or disabled) accordingly. Do the side and rear-side airbags also have sensors?

[TomLux]

I have an 18 month old (but very small for her age) and she'll be rear-facing for a while yet, meaning the extra airbags may be a risk for her. I also have a 7 year-old who would get extra protection from them. We decided to get them because we figured the period of time in which the airbags would be a benefit is much greater than the period they represent a risk.

 

That sounds ver reasonable to me and we used the same reasoning: but since we only just started the family project, the period where they are of "less use" is longer than in your case. But I would definitely get them in any car where kids will not be using a child seat.

 

I have no idea about the sensors, though.

Edited 18 January, 2015 by TomLux

[Orville]

Side airbags are deployed to protect the main torso area. For adults and larger kids bags will open in the correct zones. For smaller kids, toddlers and babies the bags may open at head level. As airbags can open at speeds in excess of 150mph, any person resting their head near the deployment zone (~chest level for an adult) may risk severe burns and/or facial and neck injury. A car hitting you at ~10mph from the side will deploy a side airbag at ~150mph. Quite often airbags cause more damage during low speed impacts than they prevent.

Edited 18 January, 2015 by Orville

[JoseDB]

The rear seat belts do have sensors (as the dash display shows who has their belts done up), but I'm not sure about bums on seats sensors.

I guess the sensible thing would be for an ISOFix seat (that doesn't use the seat belt) would leave the rear side airbag disarmed, but if the seatbelt is done up it is armed. This would not work for belt restrained baby seats of course.

Might be worth asking Skoda if this is how they are designed/expected to be used in conjunction with infants?

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[TomLux]

Side airbags are deployed to protect the main torso area. For adults and larger kids bags will open in the correct zones. For smaller kids, toddlers and babies the bags may open at head level. As airbags can open at speeds in excess of 150mph, any person resting their head near the deployment zone (~chest level for an adult) may risk severe burns and/or facial and neck injury. A car hitting you at ~10mph from the side will deploy a side airbag at ~150mph. Quite often airbags cause more damage during low speed impacts than they prevent.

That was my understanding and that's what I read even on child seat manufacturers and ADAC website.

 

The rear seat belts do have sensors (as the dash display shows who has their belts done up), but I'm not sure about bums on seats sensors.

I guess the sensible thing would be for an ISOFix seat (that doesn't use the seat belt) would leave the rear side airbag disarmed, but if the seatbelt is done up it is armed. This would not work for belt restrained baby seats of course.

Might be worth asking Skoda if this is how they are designed/expected to be used in conjunction with infants?

The fact that I was told by the dealers that the airbags can't be disabled, lead me to believe that no such system is active. The way you describe it would be the perfect way to operate such a system. I am not sure the dealers have such intricate knowledge, but reading on here about the feedback from SKODA (probably applies to most manufacturers) I doubt we would get a clear answer. But it would only work properly if people only used isofix seats. Though I honestly never thought once about fitting belt fixed seats in our isofix ready car, since I have experienced both and won't touch the belt fixed seats with a ten foot pole. They wiggle and slide about way too much, even if properly fixed (at least the ones I got to know, maybe there are better ones out there.)

[hobbie2k]

I think when the dealer says they can't be disabled, what they mean is that the dealer can't turn off the system, or individual airbags entirely. It would not make sense to fire an airbag at an unbelted seat because that dramatically increases risk to the occupant. If the seat is empty, then its just one more airbag that has to be replaced in the case of repairable damage.

Another thought, if the rear seats have seatbelt sensors to tell you if an occupant is unbelted, then it must have a weight sensor, otherwise it will just keep yelling at you to buckleup , even though you have no passengers.

Lastly, ISOFIX seats aren't legal in Aus yet (last I checked) so we have to use the belted kind....

[JoseDB]

It doesn't yelp if they don't belt up, you just get a picture of 3 occupants, and anyone belted up gets a belt across them. Saves the driver straining to check their child is belted behind them. If you put the clip in with no one sat in the seat it will still show a person belted symbol.

The symbols change back to the trip computer after 30 seconds.

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[pipsyp]

I have a feeling the rear bags are designed to deploy as a thin strip directly against the back door and buffer the C pillar area.

Its unlikely they would interfere with a well fitted child seat but personally knowing the kind of forces involved when an airbag deploys didnt personally want to take the risk....and for me 7 airbags way bettered the 4 I had previously.

Skoda UK are probably best placed to answer it for certain though.

[themanwithnoaim]

It doesn't yelp if they don't belt up, you just get a picture of 3 occupants, and anyone belted up gets a belt across them. Saves the driver straining to check their child is belted behind them. If you put the clip in with no one sat in the seat it will still show a person belted symbol.

The symbols change back to the trip computer after 30 seconds.

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Dunno about yours but, my kid will happily obey anyone but her parents, teachers, friends, friends parents or the cars computer in this case, they quickly buckle up for the car but, if I dared to ask no Fn chance followed by an enormous row, tears, tanturns and thats just me, you oughter see the kid she three times worst, I blame the parents me. LOL

[JoseDB]

I have all that to come! Sprogless and well rested for now

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[jbyrnes82]

Curtain airbags deployed when I was hit at speed in the side the car was fitted with standard airbags no added ones.

Appears as if curtain airbags are also in rear not just front

[JoseDB]

Yes, the rear side airbags protect only the area below the window line.

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[themanwithnoaim]

At 7 years old my child is in a seatbelt attached booster seat and both those images make me feel happier with my choice for my circumstances, dunno how I'd feel about it if I were using Isofix, as jbyrnes82 photo shows a lot of side peneration, I might carefully consider using only the centre isofix position if I had (by law) to use an Isofix seat.

[iDENTITi]

I didn't think there was a centre isofix?

I'm happier using the isofix than a seatbelt, although currently I am using the seatbelt.

The belt just lets it move around so much, I can grab the seat and pull it right over with the belt fixing it. Can't do that with isofix, it's solid.

[themanwithnoaim]

Its a bit of a balancing act between a secure fixing to stop unruly children mucking about and therefore being possible unsecure and a semi-secure fixing that will give a little if/when as jbyrnes82 photo shows some 9 to 12" of bodywork peneration into the childseat area of the car occurs which persoally I'd prefer.

 

Its the million dollar question parents are faced with all the time, whats best for my child/ren and as I said before, there are no right or wrong answers its the parents prerogative.

[OverTheHill]

I bought the rear airbags with no question to offer protection to my 2 yr old. He sits in an isofix seat and up till this thread, I thought I had got it right.

Looking at the seat itself and the deploy area from the Skoda photos, I am a bit more assured that it's OK - there is clearance between the seat and door for a deployment. Also, the seat itself has high sides that should shield from contact with airbags. I would trust that if it was really that bad, then the answer would be well known, like front airbags with child seats (and indeed the dealer / configurator would warn). Also, looking at the image of the crashed Octy, airbags look kinder than bent and cut metal.

Whatever, it would be safer than me as a child on the parcel shelf of our Rover, fighting the dog for space!