Loose can chain

[Loftmonster]

Hi folks,

i recently bought an old (2002) Skoda Fabia. Took it for a test drive and it sounded nice and quiet. So i bought it and by the time i got home there was a nasty rattling sound coming from the engine.

I took it to the garage who told me the cam chain was loose. He said it is nit uncommon and it should/could keep going.

Since then the noise is getting louder. I really don't understand how it was so quiet when i test drive it?

My question is. Does anyone have any experience of this? Is it safe?

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[Mikek3111]

Sounds like a tensioner is failing. Best to have the tensioner replaced

[Breezy_Pete]

Which engine type does it have?

[Loftmonster]

Sounds like a tensioner is failing. Best to have the tensioner replaced

Hi there. Sorry for my ignorance, but is the tensioner the rubber belt? If it is then the mechanic took that out and put it back on. He said it was a loose cam chain.

[Loftmonster]

Which engine type does it have?

It's a 1.2. Skoda Fabia Classic 2003. Petrol.

[Mikek3111]

Hi there. Sorry for my ignorance, but is the tensioner the rubber belt? If it is then the mechanic took that out and put it back on. He said it was a loose cam chain.

No the chain tensioner is what pushes on the chain to keep it at its correct tension. Not sure on your exact model but sometimes they are a small wheel with an offset bolt and other times they are a spring loaded bar that pushes against the chain.

If the tensioner fails then it becomes slack or stiff and is unable to expand and contract to keep tension on the chain which would therefore cause the chain to become slack and rattle.

If you had a chain then you would not have a belt unless you are talking about the accessory belt in which case they are 2 different things

Edited 5 March, 2016 by Mikek3111

[Breezy_Pete]

Your chain tensioner is out of sight within the alloy housing on that (same end as auxiliary belt) end of the engine, it's partly hydraulic in function, so oil pressure helps it do its work. 

I think they tend to cause the chain to jump teeth on the cam sprocket(s) once they stop applying sufficient tensioning pressure, which could trash the top end if your engine.

 

Get it looked at as soon as possible by an independent VAG specialist garage, in my opinion.

 

Some images that may help understand what's in there here, although the text is in German. English versions are probably out there if you search around for SSP260.

Edited 5 March, 2016 by Wino

[Loftmonster]

Thanks for the replies. If it is the tensioner, Click Mechanic quote £122 to get it replaced, so not too bad. I only paid £600 for the car as a stop gap until I get something nice. But nobody will buy it with that racket! Annoyingly it was really quiet when I test drove it.

[felicia16v]

I'd be suprised if anyone will do it for that amount! its quite a time consuming job and the chain kit with new guides and tensioner is around £100 from vw.

has anyone checked the oil? it may be old and sludgy and you may find new oil makes a difference to it .

[bigjohn]

Hi 

 

Can you tell us what engine is in the car - or give a clue e.g. cc and CO2 from V5 document?

 

Fortunately 2002 pre-dates the 1.2 3 cylinder chain cam engine  (from 2003)- prone to problems and an expensive job to replace the chain

 

EDIT just seen the follow up post - where the car is not a 2002 but a 1.2 2003 - the chain/tensioner need sorting ASAP

 

Was this a private sale or did you buy from a garage. If the latter you have rights (30 days full refund under  Consumer Rights Act.)

Edited 5 March, 2016 by bigjohn

[Loftmonster]

Hi 

 

Can you tell us what engine is in the car - or give a clue e.g. cc and CO2 from V5 document?

 

Fortunately 2002 pre-dates the 1.2 3 cylinder chain cam engine  (from 2003)- prone to problems and an expensive job to replace the chain

 

EDIT just seen the follow up post - where the car is not a 2002 but a 1.2 2003 - the chain/tensioner need sorting ASAP

 

Was this a private sale or did you buy from a garage. If the latter you have rights (30 days full refund under  Consumer Rights Act.)

 

Hi, sorry, my bad it is from 2002. Stupidly I wrote down the details of my previous Skoda. It's a Fabia Classic Estate 8V, 1397 cc, 173 G/KM Petrol engine. First reg. 16/09/2002.

 

Unfortunately I bought it privately. I called the guy I bought it from and he got quite aggressive, so I've left that. As I say I did test drive it and it was quite. So perhaps I was just very unlucky?

 

I will try topping up the oil and book it in for a oil change.

 

As you can tell I'm one of those ignorant car owners, who really shouldn't have old cars. I really appreciate you guys helping me out.

[bigjohn]

Hi, sorry, my bad it is from 2002. Stupidly I wrote down the details of my previous Skoda. It's a Fabia Classic Estate 8V, 1397 cc, 173 G/KM Petrol engine. First reg. 16/09/2002.

 

Unfortunately I bought it privately. I called the guy I bought it from and he got quite aggressive, so I've left that. As I say I did test drive it and it was quite. So perhaps I was just very unlucky?

 

I will try topping up the oil and book it in for a oil change.

 

As you can tell I'm one of those ignorant car owners, who really shouldn't have old cars. I really appreciate you guys helping me out.

 

The 1397 8v engine is the old style pushrod (not overhead cam) that has a very short relatively easy to change cam chain (unlike the 1.2 3 cylinder)  - old fashioned but robust technology that's cheap to fix! It's the same engine as fitted to the older Felicia

 

Whilst your at it get the coolant changed - these engines can be prone to head gasket failure if this isn't done (as well as changing oil)

Edited 6 March, 2016 by bigjohn

[Loftmonster]

The 1397 8v engine is the old style pushrod (not overhead cam) that has a very short relatively easy to change cam chain (unlike the 1.2 3 cylinder)  - old fashioned but robust technology that's cheap to fix! It's the same engine as fitted to the older Felicia

 

Whilst your at it get the coolant changed - these engines can be prone to head gasket failure if this isn't done (as well as changing oil)

 

Well that's better news. Thanks Bigjohn. Would you advise getting both the chain and tensioner changed? Bear in mind this car is probably worth about £500.

[Breezy_Pete]

Don't think there is a tensioner on the 1.4 8v.

No problem taking your time replacing the chain on this engine, I believe.

[bigjohn]

Well that's better news. Thanks Bigjohn. Would you advise getting both the chain and tensioner changed? Bear in mind this car is probably worth about £500.

 

Should be cheap to do , probably worth doing if you want to sell the car

[Loftmonster]

Don't think there is a tensioner on the 1.4 8v.

No problem taking your time replacing the chain on this engine, I believe.

Thanks Wino, so when you say, 'no problem taking your time'. Does that mean it will probably carry on going but just carry on making the noise? That would make sense because the mechanic said they used to have a courtesy car which had a rattly cam chain and it carried on like that for years. Could do with waiting a little while before I get it repaired.

[Breezy_Pete]

Yep, that's my understanding. No personal experience, but I've often read in the Mk1 Fabia forum that the main criterion for changing the chain is that you can't bear the noise any longer.

[Loftmonster]

Yep, that's my understanding. No personal experience, but I've often read in the Mk1 Fabia forum that the main criterion for changing the chain is that you can't bear the noise any longer.

That's great news. Thanks very much!

[Breezy_Pete]

I would recommend changing the oil and oil filter at the first opportunity, just in case the seller was unscrupulous enough to add something that temporarily quietened the chain, but might do damage thereafter. As bigjohn says, a coolant change is also a great idea.

[Loftmonster]

Hello again folks, I have decided to get the cam chain replaced so I can sell the car. Bearing in mind that this is the older style Skoda engine, how many hours labour would be acceptable?

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Realistically no more than 5, the actual repair time is much less.

[Loftmonster]

Wow really 5 hours! I guess i won't be getting it down then! Thanks for your reply James.

[mac11irl]

Your chain tensioner is out of sight within the alloy housing on that (same end as auxiliary belt) end of the engine, it's partly hydraulic in function, so oil pressure helps it do its work.

I think they tend to cause the chain to jump teeth on the cam sprocket(s) once they stop applying sufficient tensioning pressure, which could trash the top end if your engine.

Get it looked at as soon as possible by an independent VAG specialist garage, in my opinion.

Some images that may help understand what's in there here, although the text is in German. English versions are probably out there if you search around for SSP260.

And its what killed the 1.2 in my old Cordoba (same engine id bet) Edited 17 April, 2016 by mac11irl