New PCV valve Failure (1.8TSI)

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

Heyo,

My 2010 Octavia (CDAA 1.8TSI) was burning a fair amount oil when I bought it and it was suggested before we got too in depth to replace the PCV Valve. I ordered one, removed the old one and oil drained out of the breather hose, installed the new one and hey presto, smoke gone (after a few drives sucking the remaining oil from the intake hoses etc)
Not long (maybe a month) after the smoke came back gradually and got to the point it was burning through a litre in about 200km! So I removed the PCV valve again and again oil drained out of both breather hoses and I found the small rubber valve/leaf and come out of the unit... Thankfully just sitting on top still... The 'lug' part seems not big enough to grip the hole it locks into, it goes in and doesn't fall straight out but just giving it a tiny lift pops it out with no resistance....

Anyways, I'm organising a replacement but also wondering if anyone knows something that might cause this to fail like this or am I just unlucky and I got a faulty new unit...?

Thanks for reading!

Side question, what's the best to clean the oil from the coil pack? The oil was weeping from the breather hose above one cylinder...


 

[TheClient]

Right. These engines are pretty fussy and the PCV is probably a 3 or 4 year replacement item.

 

Did you buy a genuine, as you just can't rely on the chinese pattern parts for this item?

 

Also, a lot of people and even skoda / vw / audi dealerships here that there are actually two "current" PCV / fine oil spearators for engines of different years and they are not exactly the same, one version includes an extra check valve. Which version did you install and what version was originally fitted? i.e the part numbers and suffix.

 

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

Hey @TheClient 
Thanks for replying

I'm not sure what was in it previously as I didn't think to note it down before I threw it out (though I know it had been replaced some time ago (from the log book))

The part I was supplied (from Tooley Imports, Sydney) was a Topran 114 985 and since then I've not felt confident that it's the right one. They used my VIN to pick the part.
When I search for it I land on https://runautoparts.com.au/valve-engine-block-breather-114736-114-985 which when I enter my model details it tells me it's not the right one... (not to mention $84 instead of the $130 or so I paid Tooleys)

The genuine part number is 06H103495 so I take it that it isn't basically a matter of getting the latest revision for it? (AJ I believe?) and that it is a bit more involved?

The other thing that concerns me is the Topran part number looks like it has been 'blacked out'...

Best duck down to the local Skoda dealer I think...
 

[TheClient]

What date is your engine manufactured? Timing chain cover barcode usually easiest to identify. 

Edited 15 February, 2021 by TheClient

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

I’ll check, but it’s a CDAA 

the cars build date is January 2010

[TheClient]

3 hours ago, TheBeardedBoofhead said:

I’ll check, but it’s a CDAA 

the cars build date is January 2010

You should be on the revision journey 06H 103 495 E, AC,  AH then on you mfr date,  (not to be confused with the H AD AJ).

 

There is an additional check valve visible in the bottom of the unit in the H, AD, AJ units, that presumably should not be used on pre June 2010 cars.  

 

Very few dealers, VW, Audi, Skoda look carefully enough at the etka listings to realise there are two "current fitments" each with different applicability. 

 

Although aftermarket products like Vaico, Metzger and topran are usually decent quality they only seem to release 1 version of the oil separator and sometimes they mix the part revisions between AH and AJ. Clearly they are a slightly different design and from what I've seen listed on ETKA for the CCZA should not be interchanged.

 

I have attached the image here to show you the extra valve arrangement, this is not an endorsement of the specific products listed. Personally, I'd probably get genuine as you don't know spring preloads, check valve vacuum release etc etc.  But in the UK they are about £90 so up to $300 in Oz would not surprise me. It's a lot. And you have to get them to check for the two current version mfr date applicability. It should be as I outlined at the start of this reply.

 

 

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

Wow mate, you're apparently just the person I needed to hear from!

Apparently the Topran 114 985 is the equivalent to the E AC and AH version, so at least they supplied the correct item. I also emailed the website that was coming up as the wrong unit and they said yes it's the correct one and they noticed the mismatch in compatibility and would fix the product page (nice of them to actually admit an error! )

I sent of the faulty unit to get warranty today, so hopefully it'll be back asap and I'll also get a genuine replacement organised too

Thank you so much for your advice!!

[TheClient]

Ok. Yes agree with that.

 

Maybe Topran do make 2 versions then, as there is also a 117 361.

 

114 985 does look right and it inspires a little confidence that Topran run the two versions.

 

The unknown is exactly what the quality of the valves and spring release tensions are for example. As it's being replaced and it appears as close a match in the aftermarket world, probably try it and monitor...

 

A

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

Well.... Good News Bad News...

I received a new PCV, the same Topran one from a different supplier which they checked was correct for the CDAA, came in a nice Topran box etc which gave me a little more confidence than the first label scrubbed out packed in a bag one... 
Installed it, on a friday arvo... Got a bit of smoke as to be expected with the amount of oil in the intake system, but by mid saturday and all weekend (about 500klms) she was clean of blowing smoke! Over the week I did about another 500klm and no smoke and no discernable drop in oil level on the dipstick! Awesome news!

Then.... over the weekend it went from no smoke to the proverbial tone of smoke and the oil warning coming on over about 200km... So without yanking the PCV out again, I'm betting the new one's failed... F(*K!
I've popped the front breather hose off and found oil... Haven't pulled the rear hose off yet (bit harder to do without pulling coils etc...)

I doubt lightning would strike two new PCV valves like that, so I've gotta suspect something else is badly wrong and killing the valves... 

The good news is, while the PCV valve was functioning, I got no smoke and no oil usage, so that seems like a good sign for the internals of the engine...

 

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

@TheClient you wouldn't have any insight on why the second new replacement would pop in the same time period as the first? both lasted around 1000km... :(

[TheClient]

25 minutes ago, TheBeardedBoofhead said:

@TheClient you wouldn't have any insight on why the second new replacement would pop in the same time period as the first? both lasted around 1000km... :(

Is it the main diaphragm that split?  I reckon you need to install a genuine item and at the same time get a mechanic to measure the vacuum in the crankcase at idle, partial throttle and under boost.  If those are ok, it has to be faulty parts?

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

I’m not sure that the newest one is the same (I haven’t pulled it out yet) but on the original (when I bought the car) and the first replacement it was the small check valve. On the original is was stuck open, on the first replacement it had come out completely. 
So the main PCV valve operation is probably working, it’s just that other small check valve. 

[TheClient]

I'd get a genuine part and also, to make sure there is nothing out of spec, test engine pcv vacuum through dipstick or similar with new item in place under the different boost scenarios.  There is a spec for the vacuum, and you need a sensitive calibrated gauge to test, as it is a fraction of engine vacuum.

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

Ahhh I’d seen somewhere about testing via the dipstick.

 

my only worry is I’ll pay big money for the genuine unit and it’ll be damaged also.

 

my save up and get Skoda to do it, they can deal with it if they break it then... maybe...

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

So I’ve been mulling this over for the last few days (waiting to get paid to buy a genuine valve) but wondering what could be popping that check valve, I’m starting to suspect maybe the turbo diverter valve has failed. Loading up the intake side and pushing that valve out of its housing... I’d noticed a bit of an odd ‘blow offy’ kind of sound when heading off up the street sometimes. I think I’ll get the mechanic to have a look see... 🤔

[TheClient]

I don't think so.  If the diverter fails it is usually torn. That prevents proper boost. Under boost scenario.  If it failed to operate, stuck closed, the wastegate would still manager the overall boost of the turbo and it should not exceed what ems allows by positioning the wastegate, but you would get compressor surge. That's my thinking anyway.

[TheBeardedBoofhead]

Yeah that’s a good point! Bugger! Thought I might’ve been onto something then!

 

of course it’s always possible that the little check valve in those topran units are crap 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

I'm ordering a genuine pcv valve tomorrow when I get paid and we’ll go from there... 

[TheClient]

If you can, as said before I would get them to measure the PCV pressure immediately on fitting the new separator / pcv .  To make sure it is tolerance. That way, you will / should know if there is something to go looking for on the engine vacuum / pressure side.