the truth about electric cars

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

? Maybe @lol-lolwill be able to tell us how many Death Trap Renault Zoe there are in this world now.  Or in the UK.   All this fire and explosion stuff is a real horror show.  Not.     What is is the Park and Ride rapid chargers at Edinburgh Airport still being out of service.  Thank goodness I am in a diesel.   Not seen any cars on fire or exploding for ages now.  Other than on vids on here. 

 

It is about 300,000 Zoes made.  Must be a couple of tens of thousand in the UK.

 

Renault have not seen any appreciable bad outcomes with the downgrading of the head level airbag, the shell is the same basic form that got the Zoe 5 stars back in 2013.

 

Whilst the Zoe has about 17 safety features, auto emergency braking, lane departure etc etc this was not enough as the Arkana has about 30 of these safety features and that got it 5 stars.... https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-news/renault-arkana-scores-maximum-five-stars-euro-ncap.html

 

Do I feel unsafe or worried in a Zoe ZE50, no not a bit, as Jonny says........

Just did 200 mile round trip to Manchester, no need to charge even in 5C starting temps.  Still had over 30 miles range when got back home.

 

 

 

 

[Graham Butcher]

25 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

It is about 300,000 Zoes made.  Must be a couple of tens of thousand in the UK.

 

Renault have not seen any appreciable bad outcomes with the downgrading of the head level airbag, the shell is the same basic form that got the Zoe 5 stars back in 2013.

 

Whilst the Zoe has about 17 safety features, auto emergency braking, lane departure etc etc this was not enough as the Arkana has about 30 of these safety features and that got it 5 stars.... https://www.renault.co.uk/renault-news/renault-arkana-scores-maximum-five-stars-euro-ncap.html

 

Do I feel unsafe or worried in a Zoe ZE50, no not a bit, as Jonny says........

Just did 200 mile round trip to Manchester, no need to charge even in 5C starting temps.  Still had over 30 miles range when got back home.

 

 

 

 

It's not situation that really be considered to be worthy of a recall. However it might also only be applicable to certain models, as the reports don't specify. It also is only really an issue if the battery goes bad. The main danger as I see it is if you are prevented from escaping due to doors being prevented from opening for any reason and the occupants are exposed to toxic gasses. That said it not an everyday situation, but I suspect a decent engineered car like a Tesla has a solid floor and the batteries are beneath it preventing them from venting internally? 

[EnterName]

On 18/11/2023 at 18:44, Rooted said:

This thread is 'The truth about electric cars'   & the truth involves people making a living or a 2nd income from promoting EV,s or just even discussing them or supposedly telling people not to get them.

If you say so.

[wyx087]

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

but I suspect a decent engineered car like a Tesla has a solid floor and the batteries are beneath it preventing them from venting internally? 

Hahahaha.....

 

Their newer cars from Taxes (I think) have "structural battery". Basically use battery as the floor of the vehicle.

 

Deep-dive disassembly vid for info if you are interested, it's not a short one. Thumbnail is enough to show what I'm saying.

 

 

From this ebay listing, looks like Zoe battery have similar metal casing on the top?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355084020886

[Graham Butcher]

Hmm, that is very interesting, thanks for posting. Firstly Munro Associates threw me a bit because I used to do a lot of work with a company called Munro Associates but here in the UK, they are electrical and building services consulting engineers and I have worked on many large construction projects with them on the electrical designs. They are not part of the Munro Associates in this video though.

 

I'm actually quite impressed with the level of integration on this, but at the same time, while it maximises profits and saves time for Telsa in assembly, it also adds massively to the repair costs to the car owners.

 

With regard to the Zoe battery pack in the Ebay listing, that is totally different to what was shown in the video of what was alleged to be the Zoe traction battery beneath the rear seat base. So with that in mind, it looks as if the problem with that battery with the firemen access panel in the middle of the battery, on top is either an old, or newer model then that in the eBay advert,

[wyx087]

I see what you say about the Zoe battery fire access panel. I think that is the high sticking out part in the ebay listing. The fire rescue sheet section 6 talks about using it to extinguish battery fire: 

https://euroncaprescuesheets.blob.core.windows.net/rescuesheets/Renault/Renault_ZOE__Hatchback_2013_5d_Electric_EN.pdf

 

This panel isn't present in Tesla MY. Same section only talks about using lots of water. 

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Model_Y_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf

Nor Nissan Leaf. Though there is a battery cut-off in the "transmission tunnel", not sure if battery will vent through this. 

https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2013/2013_LEAF-first-responders-guide.pdf

 

Strange design decision by Renault..... 

[Graham Butcher]

Well I think it is all done in an effort to keep costs as low as possible on the both the Zoe and the Jeep as apparently both have access panels under the seats. To my mind that is like having a petrol car with its filler cap beneath the rear seat, so any problems with the filler cap seal would allow highly explosive petrol vapours to build up inside the passenger area, I mean what could possibly go wrong, I wonder 👿

[Ootohere]

No keeping some people happy.

 

Those inside the cabin can escape unless locked in and shout 'She,s going to blow.   RUN for you lives, or hobble away at least.

 

Or you can have the toxic fumes can vent outside & people watching the white cloud and that affect the innocent nearby that have no EV but are maybe going to die. 

[Graham Butcher]

Those outside are far less likely to suffer as how many times do people stand around that close to a car that is giving off vast clouds of smoke/fumes whereas those inside might already have become incapacitated due to the concentration of the toxic fumes. Outside the fumes are subjected to the breeze and less toxic due to their dilution with fresh air. 

Edited 23 November, 2023 by Graham Butcher

[J.R.]

14 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm actually quite impressed with the level of integration on this, but at the same time, while it maximises profits and saves time for Telsa in assembly, it also adds massively to the repair costs to the car owners.

 

That is not a design consideration for any automobile manufacturer.

[Ootohere]

@Graham Butcherthat must be the same breeze that disperses the emissions of Busses, Taxi,s & other vehicles that are still allowed into City Centres and high streets etc. where the LEZ,s are just a case of paying and you get access.

 

Well the BEV,s and PHEV,s are allowed in to LEZ,s and to taxi ranks and parking places.

Actually into Pedestrian Precincts with Blue Badges.

 

So there is where i was thinking off people getting affected as these HIGH RISK Toxic emitters might be near to the innocent.

 

But then we will have to wait until we hear of that, or of Diesel or Hybrid Busses catching fire in busy high streets. 

 

Head for thinking, feet for dancing, or for disperse quickly if you see plumes of white steam or gasses. 

[Graham Butcher]

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

@Graham Butcherthat must be the same breeze that disperses the emissions of Busses, Taxi,s & other vehicles that are still allowed into City Centres and high streets etc. where the LEZ,s are just a case of paying and you get access.

 

Well the BEV,s and PHEV,s are allowed in to LEZ,s and to taxi ranks and parking places.

Actually into Pedestrian Precincts with Blue Badges.

 

So there is where i was thinking off people getting affected as these HIGH RISK Toxic emitters might be near to the innocent.

 

But then we will have to wait until we hear of that, or of Diesel or Hybrid Busses catching fire in busy high streets. 

 

Head for thinking, feet for dancing, or for disperse quickly if you see plumes of white steam or gasses. 

Not denying any of that, but, when you are inside said car, it could have been venting directly from beneath the rear seat, into the car for some time. The gases might be odourless for all we know, and the occupants could already be rendered incapable or even dead was the point that I was making.

 

In the videos, both cars had massive openings already letting toxic gas out, the Jeep had 2 smashed windows that the firemen smashed in order to get water into the car, and the Zoe had the tailgate wide open and yet the explosion had such force behind it that the roof was blown off the Jeep and the Zoe had the doors bent outwards from the force.

 

With vents designed to vent to the outside rather into the car, the casualties could be minimised, especially up in Scotland as from my recollection, it is often windy up there?

[Ootohere]

Could of should have, might have. 

Any reports of such happening?

[Graham Butcher]

Nope, doesn't mean it won't though, it was just very poor design, just as it would be to put the petrol cap and filler inside the car, no?

[Ootohere]

Easy, stay out of them and well clear, don't stand or park near one or put one in your garage..

 

 

 

[Graham Butcher]

That BYD is very impressive indeed.

[Graham Butcher]

On 01/10/2023 at 22:58, Rooted said:

@Graham Butcherwhere have you read this, and when are these going to be mandatory?     This type of story telling is a real issue.     @Leemaybe has a clip with Colin from Portsmouth saying much the same. 

The above post was in response to me posting about smart meters were going to be made mandatary and that you can refuse and if you did, that the Police would get involved as well and come with the supply authority to assist in them gaining access to your property and installing said meter. I was unable to locate the article where I read it, however this link also backs this up and he has evidence from an expert on the subject.

 

 

[EnterName]

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

Easy, stay out of them and well clear, don't stand or park near one or put one in your garage..

I like the full logo they use on the back of Chinese cars. It's kitsch, but I like it.

(I noticed it as I'm watching a lot of Chinese origin dashcam crash videos at the moment.)

Edited 23 November, 2023 by EnterName

[J.R.]

Thanks for the BYD video, one of the few EV ones where the presenter has not got up my nose and it has not been full of narcissism, quite and old school car review in many ways.

 

A very impressive vehicle and whilst it has all the things that set me off like any other modern car, (square tea-trays on the dashboard for instance) I found myself really liking it, that is a first time in a couple of decades that I have desired a new car. 😯

 

I am not surprised about the Chinese buld quality and expect it will be very reliable.

 

I thought the front seats looked superb, other than Tillet carbon shell race seats I have never found a seat to be attractive or desirable.

 

Are there any prices for it yet? I think it will really shake up the European and US  manufacturers.

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Thanks for the BYD video, one of the few EV ones where the presenter has not got up my nose and it has not been full of narcissism, quite and old school car review in many ways.

Surprisingly civil from Robert. I've seen so many rants from him. I personally prefer Jack for car reviews on that channel.

 

This might be a different Robert?

 

 

 

For smart meter, it's helping the grid and everyone to get cheaper energy. Have a think, electricity prices varies greatly throughout the day. If they are willing to pay over £2 per kWh for people to use less, how much it must be costing them to produce a kWh during that time?

 

I helped last week by saving 1.22 kWh:

 

 

[J.R.]

I wont watch the rant thanks, I thought it was the presenter I remembered from way back when and who grated on me even back then, as you say it was surprisingly civil.

[lol-lol]

UK Government seems to back EV manufacture with loads of UK tax payer's money by putting hundred of millions of pounds in to the Nissan plant near Sunderland........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67517522  UK's Gilts ie the government bonds, have been falling in value since the Autumn Statement as faith in the UK economy continue to ebb lower.    

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nissan to lead £2bn investment in UK electric car plant 

 

 

Nissan and its partners have announced a £2bn plan to build three electric car models at its Sunderland factory.

The Japanese firm will build electric Qashqai and Juke models at the plant alongside the next generation of the electric Leaf, which is already produced there. The scheme could help preserve the jobs of about 6,000 workers directly, and thousands more across the UK.  Nissan said that alongside this, a major new battery plant known as a "gigafactory" will also be needed.   This is in addition to the current factory adjacent to the car plant, and a further gigafactory already being built by its partner, AESC.  Nissan will spend £1.12bn on preparing its UK facilities and supply chain for the new models and training its workforce.  Alongside the gigafactory the total new investment will be up to £2bn, according to the company.

 

 

The UK government has provided support for Nissan through the Automotive Transformation Fund, which received a £2bn top-up in the Autumn Statement on Wednesday.  Mr Johnson declined to comment on how much funding the company has received from UK taxpayers.  He said: "The support we have received in the past has been excellent and we're very grateful for the support we do receive.  "The truth is discussions are ongoing with the government, not concluded, and therefore I'm not in a position at the moment to make any announcement or any comment about any numbers."

Brexit

In the summer, Mr Gupta also warned that the UK's largest car manufacturing plant in Sunderland would be "unsustainable" without a post-Brexit trade deal on tariffs.  Rules due to take effect in January next year mean there will be a 10% tariff on cars sold between the UK and EU unless carmakers have sourced at least 45% of their components by value from the UK or EU.  Batteries are the most expensive part of an electric vehicle, and some manufacturers in both the UK and EU have said they will struggle to meet the requirements, and have called for the rules to be deferred.

[wyx087]

New generation of Leaf?!  I'm selfishly hoping for Chademo but it will probably be CCS.

[wyx087]

This youtuber is doing the John o'groats to Lands End run right now:

 

 

 

 

The video points out many failings by the Taycan man. Mainly not following what he know and repeatedly charge to 100%. I also questioned his charging lengths when it was initially published.

 

Edited 24 November, 2023 by wyx087

[lol-lol]

7 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

New generation of Leaf?!  I'm selfishly hoping for Chademo but it will probably be CCS.

 

LEAF I expect a mark 3 but the Qashqai, which Washington has produced over quarter of a million a year at its peak and exported to over 30 countries, mainly the EU27 of course, is the key more than the LEAF.

 

Sister loves her 1.2 TSI Qashqai.  Best UK selling car in 2022.... https://careersatnissan.co.uk/british-built-nissan-qashqai-confirmed-as-uks-best-selling-new-car-of-2022/

 

Sunderland also makes the Juke. Shares much with the Renault Capture I presume.  Not my favourite car format but the Qashqai is undeniably a massive success.