the truth about electric cars

[lol-lol]

21 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Ok, this is the type of thing that makes zero sense to me, this amount of insane HP on a BEV which already have bonkers acceleration from the get go, why do they think that anybody actually needs that amount of power, 1100HP?

BYD to test appetite for huge, 1100bhp Defender rival at Geneva | Autocar

 

 

Car is 4 tonnes is it not so power to weight is not that high.

 

In motorcycles we peaked a few years ago with the Kawasaki H2R which had much more than a horsepower per kilogram.

 

With motorbikes the adage is if more is better that too much must be just enough.

 

Video of H2R going from zero to 400 kph on the bridge between Asia and Europe with Ken S on it is awesome.

 

[Ootohere]

Insurance groups and cost means nothing if you have loads of money, or just take someone else's car and rag it stupid. 

[wyx087]

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

The video just highlights a few of the drawbacks of EV cars in general, although these are particularly bad in the case of a rental at an airport.

I think it's more due to rental company not accounting for how EV's work differently and not leveraging it as a benefits.

 

They could advertise 80-30% SoC so one would essentially get 50% free as part of rental. When I had done short journey with rental car on the company, it was a huge hassle to go to petrol station for £5 worth of petrol. Petrol cost is on the company, rental company petrol penalty is on me.

 

Just like dealership sales model, rental companies not adopting will get left behind.

 

31 minutes ago, Rooted said:

At least when someone boots one up a road you do not have to hear them for ages like many a Warm or Hot hatch or bucket of rust that do make more noise than speed.

Haha, love it! The loudest cars are pretty much always bucket of rust.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Here is the cheapest quotes for me on a £65,000 Hyundai Ioniq 5 N first registered 1st March 2024. 

Parked on Drive, garaged overnight, no motoring offences in the past 5 years, no accidents in 5 years, 20 years NCD.  & £1,000 voluntary excess & £400 compulsory. 

 

Bottom linked lowest quotes is on the MINI Electric new in August 2023 which they put the value at as under £18,000.

Used the same info as for the Hyundai.

RRP was over £35,000. (Motability car so i do not pay the insurance on it.) 

 

**I got a quoted on the Fastest, big battery, & the most expensive Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo doing 5,000 miles a year & it was under£1,000.**

 

Edited 19 February by Rooted

[lol-lol]

7 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I think it's more due to rental company not accounting for how EV's work differently and not leveraging it as a benefits.

They could advertise 80-30% SoC so one would essentially get 50% free as part of rental. When I had done short journey with rental car on the company, it was a huge hassle to go to petrol station for £5 worth of petrol. Petrol cost is on the company, rental company petrol penalty is on me.

Just like dealership sales model, rental companies not adopting will get left behind.

Haha, love it! The loudest cars are pretty much always bucket of rust.

 

 

I have had quite a lot of rental cars in other countries and have come to the conclusion that many car rental companies make their money on the add ons and not the actual rental fee which draws you in and then they sting you with the add ons.

 

In Shannon the guy got more petrol in to a nice little Clio I hired, he absolutely brimmed it taking non notice of hte warning that three click of the fuel pump and stop filling else you risk knackering the catalytic converter.  Malaga, could not find a petrol anywhere on the road to the car drop off so dropped of with 3/4 tank, got stung 50 Euros for their time to fill up the car.  Vancouver, the rate their charged for petrol was about twice what I had seen it, it is sold in sold in litres like Europe which gave me some idea rather than US gallons which is only about 4 litres rather than 4.54 for a UK gallon, confusion and add ons best source of profit.

 

Mind you it is a practice done in many industry so for customs clearance and logistics one is oft charged for BAF, CAF, and a full page or more of additional charges, Bunkering Adjustment factor, Currency adjustment factor and numerous other charges.  Way of the world, buyer beware.

 

[lol-lol]

Exciting week, Geneva motor show and lots of new EVs, including the Renault 5 EV out of the ashes of the old ICE model.

Sounds like it is using the Zoe ZE50 battery and motor which is no bad thing with its range but will be interesting to see if the bump up the DC charge speed from the relatively slow 125A just under 50 kW to something a bit more modern rated ie 200 A and therefore about 80 kWh at least for the first few minutes of charging when SOC is under 50% whilst keeping the market leading AC charging of 22 kWs.  C3e will be there and the new Dacia Spring extreme with its 45% increase in power taking it to 48 kW from the 33 kWs (new model can do 130 kph, eventually, might take a minute or so to get there. Exiting time and cars for the recession blighted Europe and UK.

 

 

 

[Graham Butcher]

13 hours ago, Rooted said:

Here is the cheapest quotes for me on a £65,000 Hyundai Ioniq 5 N first registered 1st March 2024. 

Parked on Drive, garaged overnight, no motoring offences in the past 5 years, no accidents in 5 years, 20 years NCD.  & £1,000 voluntary excess & £400 compulsory. 

 

Bottom linked lowest quotes is on the MINI Electric new in August 2023 which they put the value at as under £18,000.

Used the same info as for the Hyundai.

RRP was over £35,000. (Motability car so i do not pay the insurance on it.) 

 

**I got a quoted on the Fastest, big battery, & the most expensive Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo doing 5,000 miles a year & it was under£1,000.**

 

Most people would do way more than 5,000 miles in a year, and I would fully expect that if you were to try and repeat that exercise down these parts, that quote would be a magnitude higher.

[Winston_Woof]

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Most people would do way more than 5,000 miles in a year, and I would fully expect that if you were to try and repeat that exercise down these parts, that quote would be a magnitude higher.

Nah I do less than that

Anyways 59 YO, 7 years NCD (didn't have car insurance for 10 years before that , motorcycle only), on that £65k Ioniq 5 at a WN2 postcode

[lol-lol]

32 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Most people would do way more than 5,000 miles in a year, and I would fully expect that if you were to try and repeat that exercise down these parts, that quote would be a magnitude higher.

 

I had had that the average ICE car was only about 7k miles pa with the average EV about 7.5k miles, only 5% of us, including me, drive over 15k miles a year......

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car-industry-news/2023/02/27/less-than-5-of-vehicles-are-driven-over-15-000-miles-a-year

 

https://www.britanniacarleasing.co.uk/news/annual-uk-car-milage/

 

Oldish and in pandemic but still valid then...  https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/electric-vehicles-news/what-range-anxiety-ev-drivers-rack-up-more-miles-than-those-using-tradition/

 

[wyx087]

16 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Hyundai Ioniq 5 N (2023 onwards) Insurance Groups. Insurance Group: 49

The Chris Harris video also mentioned Audi RS6 as comparison.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/audi/a6/rs6-avant-2020/insurance-groups/

Insurance group 50.

 

Would be interesting to see a comparison quote by root / woof for a dino juice RS6.

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/electric-vehicles-news/what-range-anxiety-ev-drivers-rack-up-more-miles-than-those-using-tradition/

We were having friend over for dinner last night. That family have a Model 3 and a GLA petrol.

 

Guess which car do they go on road trips with?

 

Their Model 3 has been across Europe multiple times, up to Denmark, down to Southern France. Says just rely on the Tesla sat-nav, don't need to do additional research. Never had any anxiety about running out of charge or unable to charge.

 

I forgot to ask the car's current mileage, also 72 reg, but I understand he drives a LOT for his work.

[lol-lol]

9 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The Chris Harris video also mentioned Audi RS6 as comparison.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/audi/a6/rs6-avant-2020/insurance-groups/

Insurance group 50.

 

Would be interesting to see a comparison quote by root / woof for a dino juice RS6.

 

We were having friend over for dinner last night. That family have a Model 3 and a GLA petrol.

 

Guess which car do they go on road trips with?

 

Their Model 3 has been across Europe multiple times, up to Denmark, down to Southern France. Says just rely on the Tesla sat-nav, don't need to do additional research. Never had any anxiety about running out of charge or unable to charge.

 

I forgot to ask the car's current mileage, also 72 reg, but I understand he drives a LOT for his work.

 

I thought EVs were just for local journeys and not capable of pan country or pan European journey and for that you needed a proper ICE car ? 
 

[Stonekeeper]

23 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The Chris Harris video also mentioned Audi RS6 as comparison.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/audi/a6/rs6-avant-2020/insurance-groups/

Insurance group 50.

 

Would be interesting to see a comparison quote by root / woof for a dino juice RS6.

 

 

 

The RS6 starts at around £113,000 ?

Edited 19 February by Stonekeeper

[Ootohere]

I could not find a Reg number for a new RS6 Avant and it would not come up.    (find a reg number and i will try it.)

So this is an Audi R8 V10 GT 5.2 litre, 611 BHP, 2023, £165,000 and 10,000 miles a year. 

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

 

The RS6 starts at around £113,000 ?

Not my comparison. Chris Harris was comparing the I5N with RS6 in his video. 

 

Back when EV were more rare and expensive, it didn't stop people comparing insurance prices. I don't see why it matters now? 

 

I'm surprised TBH, I thought the thinking is that ICE cars are cheaper? May be inflation have taken hold on ICE cars ! May be people should re-evaluate their idea of cheap car. 

 

While we are at it, they are within 10% weight difference. 

2023 Audi RS 6/Kerb weight: 2,075 kg

2023 Hyundai IONIQ 5 N/Kerb weight:  2,235 kg

The difference is much less than lightest vs heaviest VW Golf models:  2024 Volkswagen Golf/Kerb weight: 1,264 to 1,630 kg

 

 

 

Edit: Thanks Root, not sure if R8 is comparable to a super-hatch....... 

 

Edited 19 February by wyx087

[lol-lol]

Ahhh (A HA) Norway.....

 

Below, me in my 186,000 tonne transport to Norway last summer (powered by cleaner LNG).

And below that the 300 passenger electric fjord cruise boat out of Stavanger...

EVs in different modes by the wonderful Norwegians.

 

 

 

Edited 19 February by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

@wyx087   I will try this one. Mild Hybrid lol...

Value £86,230  & 10,000 miles a year.

 

 

 

Edited 19 February by Rooted

[Stonekeeper]

 

[Stonekeeper]

 

[Ootohere]

@Graham Butcher  Many will do more the 5,000 miles a year even in their weekend / special occasion cars.

But if the are a 3 car person doing 20,000 miles a year some of them will be doing lower annual mileage.

It was just the Porsche i put at 5,000 miles anything else i do at 10,000.  Not that it makes much difference 

 

As to down your way, i thought the joy riders were a thing of the past, and i am pretty sure there are less theft of performance BEV,s than there are ICE vehicles.

Less fires and maybe even less accidents but then it will be the underwriters that know what is currently the situation and what others are speculating for the future. 

[Stonekeeper]

 

[Ootohere]

It is wonderful for cash buyers that just want to purchase a used EV and drive it and keep it a few years.

Crash in the market, all these suffering huge losses.  

 

Just as long as you are not the muppet that paid far too much.   

Then as far as the business drivers, as long as the rented car did the job they got it for and then it goes back they will know if they want another or if they are getting an ICE vehicle next.

Well maybe the bosses will decide. 

 

.........

This is for a £80,000 2024 3 litre diesel Range Rover doing 10,000 miles a year.

Just a bit more expensive than the £140,000 Porsche Taycan doing 5,000 miles. 

Edited 19 February by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

10 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

Nah I do less than that

Anyways 59 YO, 7 years NCD (didn't have car insurance for 10 years before that , motorcycle only), on that £65k Ioniq 5 at a WN2 postcode

Well as a direct comparison, I did a quote based on 5,000 miles a year, 7 years NCD, £1,000 excess, garaged at home and charged elsewhere, aged 75 years, 58 years of driving, 1 accident, other drivers fault, at a CM1 postcode. The car is a secondhand Ioniq 5, 1 year old, 2,500 miles, 77KW battery £35,000, £30,000 lower price than the new one you did.

Edited 19 February by Graham Butcher

[Winston_Woof]

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well as a direct comparison, I did a quote based on 5,000 miles a year, 7 years NCD, £1,000 excess, garaged at home and charged elsewhere, aged 75 years, 58 years of driving, 1 accident, other drivers fault, at a CM1 postcode. The car is a secondhand Ioniq 5, 1 year old, 2,500 miles, 77KW battery £35,000, £30,000 lower price than the new one you did.

Ok let's tweak my original quote to reflect a 1 year old Hyundai IONIQ 5 Ultimate 77 kWh AWD valued at £35k at WN2 being used for 5k PA. NB mine is on driveway rather than garage.
59YO,7Y NCD,no accidents/points

That's getting more reasonable

[Graham Butcher]

@Winston_WoofOk, just done comparison quote for my current car, same parameters and the cheapest is Insure the Box, £528 car stored on the drive, 5,000PA, £1,000 excess value of car £10k, same car but stored in locked garage £586. Next I changed the excess from £1,000 to £300, same prices, WTF, do they just pluck prices out of the ether??

[Winston_Woof]

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

@Winston_WoofOk, just done comparison quote for my current car, same parameters and the cheapest is Insure the Box, £528 car stored on the drive, 5,000PA, £1,000 excess value of car £10k, same car but stored in locked garage £586. Next I changed the excess from £1,000 to £300, same prices, WTF, do they just pluck prices out of the ether??

Uhhhh?? a lower quote parked on drive than in locked garage???

😮🙄🤪